Precision Square Advice

[Prashun Patel]

I need to get a REAL precision square.

I'm debating between the Incra Guaranteed Square and the Starett Double square.

The Starett slides and has a rule, which makes it more versatile, but will its slide be reliable enough for setting up jointer fences and the like?

[Michael Peet]

For what it's worth, I have the 4" Starrett double square and I absolutely love it.

Mike

[george wilson]

For what it's worth,no ADJUSTABLE square can ever stay as accurate as a good,solid type square. The sliding of the blade eventually will wear the beam enough to cause problems. I have adjustable Starrett squares in 4" and 6" sizes,as well as combination Starrett squares. For real accuracy(for precision metal machining) I always rely upon my solid Starrett or old (but like new)Brown and Sharp squares.

[Matt Day]

The cheapest way to do it is to get a clear plastic triange from the craft store. Probably the same accuracy as a Starrett for less than $15.

[Josh Rudolph]

For what it's worth,no ADJUSTABLE square can ever stay as accurate as a good,solid type square. The sliding of the blade eventually will wear the beam enough to cause problems. I have adjustable Starrett squares in 4" and 6" sizes,as well as combination Starrett squares. For real accuracy(for precision metal machining) I always rely upon my solid Starrett or old (but like new)Brown and Sharp squares.

+1 to what George said. I have a 4" double square that gets used along with a 6" Starret. But I bought a 3 piece set of Engineer's squares from Enco when they had a sale. I think I bought SPI's. I use them for setup, but use the adjustable squares for my actual layout.

[John Coloccia]

The Groz squares are reasonable for precision squares. For combo squares, I have an Empire. It's as square as it needs to be for anything i'd use a combo square for (i.e. when I'm just scribing a line). That's just my opinion.

[Prashun Patel]

I have the plastic artist squares. The problem for me is they lack the wide flat shoulder that lets them sit properly on a table. Further, they can only measure inside angles, not outside ones.

I guess I'll go for the Incra.

[Dan Bowman]

Starrett machinist squares - 6" for jointer setup. Smaller 3" is good for blade setups. Watch eBay, as they're pricy new.

[Cary Falk]

I love my stuff from Woodpeckers.
174354
http://www.woodpeck.com/1281.html

[Chris Fournier]

I wouldn't be without my Starrett combo as it's great for joinery lay out. You can entend it's useful life by lubricating the sliding action. Mine is 17 years old and more than accurate enough for the wood shop or may efforts on metal. This being said I do use a set of machinist sqaures for machine set up.

It's easy enough to detemine if your squares are truly square. Once you have checked it out and you find that it is accurate, use it regardless of the format or manufacturer.

A quality name brand square does give me a good feeling when I use it. Tool snobbery I guess.

[george wilson]

A new Starrett 6" solid steel square is not cheap. Fortunately,I have been able to get my squares used,but in fine condition. I have them up to 24",which would have run about $2,000.00 years ago. And,they are REAL heavy!

My master squares are granite,as is my master straight edge. They would not be something suitable for woodworking,though.

I used to take cheap all metal squares,and file them up to match my good squares if I wanted to use them somewhere that I wouldn't use my expensive squares,like around the belt grinder or whee they might get water on them.

[Ruhi Arslan]

I love my stuff from Woodpeckers.
174354
http://www.woodpeck.com/1281.html
I second it. I also have the triangle too. Both are very well done and comes with jewelery box like well made protective supports that can be attached on the wall.

Definitely not Rockler. I got a precision square from Rockler. Never thought about checking if the "precision" square is precise enough. When did, I was surprised but some considerable time was elapsed. Asked for a replacement which was rejected. Then, I placed a review on their site for the product. It was not "approved". Contacted them they said it was purchased long time ago therefore they were not going to allow to post the review. Now, that feels better...

[Chris Fournier]

A new Starrett 6" solid steel square is not cheap. Fortunately,I have been able to get my squares used,but in fine condition. I have them up to 24",which would have run about $2,000.00 years ago. And,they are REAL heavy!

My master squares are granite,as is my master straight edge. They would not be something suitable for woodworking,though.

I used to take cheap all metal squares,and file them up to match my good squares if I wanted to use them somewhere that I wouldn't use my expensive squares,like around the belt grinder or whee they might get water on them.

For $2000 they better be heavy! If I owned one of those I'd wake up at night in a cold sweat and have to go check up on it. "Are you okay sweety? Water? Another blanket perhaps?"

[Jim Sebring]

My Bridge City TS-2 try square is my go-to tool when I need something to be really right in the wood shop.

[Andrew Kertesz]

I use several squares, a Bridge City, plastic triangles, Starrett 6" and 12" sliding, and an aluminum speed square and steel framing square.

[Kent A Bathurst]

....... I have them up to 24",which would have run about $2,000.00 years ago........

Prices have fallen George - Only $1,047 at Amazon for the 24" 20-series - 0.0001 per 6". The 36" is $2,613. Free shipping w/Prime :D

[Rich Engelhardt]

nvr mind...

[Mike Cutler]

Prices have fallen George - Only $1,047 at Amazon for the 24" 20-series - 0.0001 per 6". The 36" is $2,613. Free shipping w/Prime :D

I hope that comes with the NIST TraceabilityCertification for that price. If not,,,,,,.
I have a 6 foot Starrett machine rule that lost it's NIST Cert. Without the NIST Cert, it became a skinny piece of flat stock.
With Starett you have to be a little bit careful. The initial price with NISTTraceability/ Certification will be very high. The same item without a NIST Cert will be much, much lower.
It still doesn't detract from the overall quality. Starrett is pretty much the standard

Prashun
I have a few Incra rules and squares, in addition to two of their Miters,and a drill press table. Incra makes nice stuff, but,,,, It's kind of klugy.
I haven't been happy with their T-rules at all. There is too much slop in the fit up between parts,and they require constant checking for square.
I've been using the Groz' squares for machine setups and the Pinnacle triangles for layouts and more exacting setups.

[Richard Wagner]

I know that I will catch it for this comment but I have two squares from Stanley that work just fine in the wood shop. Now when I go over to the mill to do precision work I leave the Stanley behind.

What degree of precision are you seeking when using these jointers and planers that warrants such expensive measuring devices?

Don't drop that Starrett whatever you do.

[Peter Quinn]

I have several GROZ machinist squares for machine set ups like jointer fences. Fact is most jointer fences don't have micro adjust fences so close to square is all you get best case, and that is more than good enough for wood. If you joint one face in next out for edge glue ups you cancel any error in the fence. For all else, close is good enough. For trisquares I go for starret or pinnacle because their mechanisms move more smoothly, but for basic set up tools the cheep imports are my choice.

[Jarrett Vibert]

This is a wood working forum right...?:o

I was going to pull the trigger on some starett precision squares when I was getting into tool&die, and forunately my journeyman pointed out that a difference of .0002 runout over 6" between the cheapy and the starett is a moot point.

I'll wager that those would have dialed in their jointers fences to the .0001 with there insanely expensive precision squares lose that extra tolerence in machine vibration, and work piece control...

There has to be something more worth while to spend the extra money on in this hobby, especially considering the unstable dimensional nature of wood.

[george wilson]

IF you EVER find an OLD framing square with GROUND,.not chomped edges,buy it!! They used to have accurately ground edges,but now are just chomped out. Of course,a ground square could have been dropped,so be careful.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I need to get a REAL precision square........

Prashun - to give you a non-wise-guy answer to your question, I have 2 of the Groz [that others have mentioned]. Very heavy handle, so they will "stand up" on their own without falling over. I don't know the rated tolerance, but they work just fine for setting up jointer fence, etc - well within my "operator skill level" tolerance range when I am using the machines. And, they aren't very pricey. I use them for machine setup, instead of the Starret combo and Starret double I have. I also use them for general layout tasks [tho usually I use whatever I happen to grab off of the tool wall for layout - maybe Groz, maybe Starrett, whatever].

[Matt Winterowd]

As I just remarked recently on a different thread, I don't believe that new Starrett tools are worth the premium. 2 out of three squares I've purchased from them in the past 2 years have been so far out of square as to be visible with the naked eye. Buy a reasonable set of engineer's/machinists squares. For the same or less money as the Starrett's, you'll get a whole set that's way more accurate and reliable. Groz, Gladstone, Lee Valley, or Fowler (in ascending order of price/guaranteed accuracy) are all great bets.

I like the design and usability of Incra and Woodpecker's stuff, but not for master reference gauges. They're very precise when new, but it's just too easy to damage aluminum.

[glenn bradley]

Sounds like you may be looking for one tool to do two jobs. You mention setting up jointer fences and the like which would be outside angles. You state you have the plastic squares but cannot do inside angles with them. I have a 4 and 6 inch "no-name" (Lee Valley I think) double squares and use the heck out of them for inside angles. I check for accuracy using a striking knife to make a line, reverse the squares position and strike again. This tells me if I am accurate enough for my woodworking materials.

For machines I have a 1-2-3 block that is very accurate setting 90's but would be tempted to try something like Woodpeckers billet triangle (http://www.woodpeck.com/gaugeblock.html) if I didn't use angles other that 45 so much. The bulk of my need for accuracy is in returning to 0 or 90. The 1-2-3 block handles that for me. I have tools for setting machines and tools for working wood. I want my machines as close as I can get. Wood moves so I am a bit more forgiving there ;-)

[John Coloccia]

As I just remarked recently on a different thread, I don't believe that new Starrett tools are worth the premium.

I didn't want to be the one to say it, but I'd buy Mitutoyo over new Starrett any day of the week.

[george wilson]

Kent,I can't find those 24" squares on Amazon. Were they Starrett or Brown & Sharp?

John,I like OLD Starrett tools.

[John Coloccia]

Kent,I can't find those 24" squares on Amazon. Were they Starrett or Brown & Sharp?

John,I like OLD Starrett tools.

At my last job, the machine shop had an interesting mix of new tools and old tools. When you see them side by side especially, the old Starrett items are just nice and perfect and the new stuff just all seems to be tweaked one way or another.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent,I can't find those 24" squares on Amazon. Were they Starrett or Brown & Sharp?

John,I like OLD Starrett tools.


Here you go........

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_scat_16310091_ln?rh=n%3A16310091%2Ck%3AS TARRETT+SQUARE&keywords=STARRETT+SQUARE&ie=UTF8&qid=1292786386&scn=16310091&h=46a49fad521b2244be3ba8ae209d07d3f8193710#/ref=sr_st?keywords=STARRETT+SQUARE&qid=1292786394&rh=n%3A16310091%2Ck%3ASTARRETT+SQUARE&sort=-price

[Jarrett Vibert]

I didn't want to be the one to say it, but I'd buy Mitutoyo over new Starrett any day of the week.

.........+1

[george wilson]

I saw the square on Amazon,but the 24" with the 20" beam is $2160.00. The one you cite has a short beam. I don't fool around with no stinki'n short beam squares!!:)

Actually,there really isn't any NEW Brown and Sharp anymore. The name still exists,but they are no longer USA made. Made most anywhere they can get them. Calipers made in France,last I heard. No telling where else other B&S stuff is made.

Actually,I don't need such precision for woodworking. I also have a machine shop. That is where the extra precision is needed. It is NICE to have it around woodworking machines,for setup,but really for metal work.

[David Giles]

There are dozen precision squares floating around my shop, including a 12" Starrett adjustable square that gets a lot of use. But for the money, the engineers squares from Harbor Freight are every bit as accurate and much less expensive. One of the HF jewels.

[george wilson]

HF square might be as accurate as an adjustable square,but I haven't seen a cheap steel square more than .003" accurate. As I have mentioned,I'll adjust a cheap square against a good one,if I need a cheap square that I may use around a grinder,or where it might get water on it.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm not obsessed with tolerances and exactness for the sake of it.
I've been using a Black and Decker 6" square for about 10 years and it's been fine for what I do. However, I have noticed that it's off a little, and in some situations it makes for extra work. This week I've been gluing up planks for a table top, only to find my jointer was not set properly and my pieces were not square enough for glue up.

I think I'll check out the Groz's, since they're on sale @ Rockler right now. I'm sure they're at LEAST as good as the square I've been using. If they're any better, they should suit me fine!

Thanks for the input.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I saw the square on Amazon,but the 24" with the 20" beam is $2160.00. The one you cite has a short beam. I don't fool around with no stinki'n short beam squares!!


Heh-heh-heh.

George - not only am I not in your league, I also am not on the same planet where your league plays. :p

[Richard Wagner]

I am amazed by this discussion. I can not imagine the "wood working" shop that uses a square that costs as much as my table saw.

I am also amazed at the number of users who seem to have these precision tools. Obviously, my self imposed precision standard of all cuts within +- .0005", is laughable to many of you. So. I'll just go back to lurking and read these posts in utter amazement.

[Josh Rudolph]

I am amazed by this discussion. I can not imagine the "wood working" shop that uses a square that costs as much as my table saw.

I am also amazed at the number of users who seem to have these precision tools. Obviously, my self imposed precision standard of all cuts within +- .0005", is laughable to many of you. So. I'll just go back to lurking and read these posts in utter amazement.

I guess I missed that somewhere in the thread. The most expensive square I have seen people talking about that they actually use for woodworking are the Starrett's and Mitutoyo's and we are taking about $100. The engineer square set, LV doube square and Starrett 6" combo square cost me less than $100 combined when I bought them. I started using them when I checked my old square to find out I had almost .1" of runout over a 6" square!
The real expensive square they are talking about is similar to the one's George uses in his machine shop. That level of accuracy is required there.

The more I learn and build things, my measuring devices are used more in the beginning parts of a project and then I am fitting things from then on. What I have learned from work is to start square...if you don't start square your going to be fighting yourself the whole way. So for my sake of mind in knowing I am giving myself the best possible start with a project, I made what I consider to be a small investment in layout tools. This will enable me to have a certain level of accuracy for years to come and as long as I don't abuse them, they will be a lifetime tool.

[glenn bradley]

I guess I missed that somewhere in the thread. The most expensive square I have seen people talking about that they actually use for woodworking are the Starrett's and Mitutoyo's and we are taking about $100

I believe Richard is referring to the 24" devices that run a couple thousand in his comparison to tablesaw cost. I too have become comfortable with the $100 and under for a measuring tool or tools for woodworking. I too hand-fit most of my joinery so the accuracy is at the front end of the project, not the finishing end ;-)

[Cary Falk]

I have always fought square. I use to have a Stanley 6" square that I don't think was square from the store. I swear it kept changing angles on me. I have found that by using these very accurate squares, my work has turned out much better. Adding my inaccuracies to these devices still yields something acceptable.:eek:

[Brian Tymchak]

Prashun,

I like the Incra 7" square for machine set up. (I also have the 5" which, occasionally comes in handy, and the 45 which I have never used.) I check the jointer fence, the blade and miter gauge on the TS. Last night I was checking the trueness of the chuck/quill installation on my DP. The Incra squares have a big base such that if I set it upright, it sits there, without wavering. I have 4" starrett double squares that do the same thing but IMHO they are too small for good setup use. I have a 12" starrett combo square that doesn't stand up all that well. The base on that is relatively small to adequately manage the weight of the ruler. So I don't use that square for set up but I use it all the time for layout. I don't usually use the Incra squares for layout, although, I have a couple of times. So, to some degree, how you intend to use the square might drive your choice.

HTH,
Brian

[Kevin Groenke]

I'm not obsessed with tolerances and exactness for the sake of it.
I've been using a Black and Decker 6" square for about 10 years and it's been fine for what I do. However, I have noticed that it's off a little, and in some situations it makes for extra work. This week I've been gluing up planks for a table top, only to find my jointer was not set properly and my pieces were not square enough for glue up.

I think I'll check out the Groz's, since they're on sale @ Rockler right now. I'm sure they're at LEAST as good as the square I've been using. If they're any better, they should suit me fine!

Thanks for the input.

Prashun,

Check out this 4" & 6" set (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Set-of-2-Double-Squares-4-and-6-iGAGING-by-IPIC/productinfo/466-3464/) as a nice alternative to the $ of Starrett, etc.. The also have simalar offerings in combination squares, machinists squares and rules.

174566

[Kyle Iwamoto]

OK, maybe I'll get some flames, but, here's my $0.02. I use a Craftsman. Yes, I went through 3 of them at the store before I found a square one. But, I dropped it, and it went out of square. I took it back, and they gave me a new one. I'm NOT saying it's better than anything out there, just that IF I owned a Starrett, and dropped it I would not get a new one. And someday I may indeed own one, just because they ARE soooo nice to work with. Then I can also join the tool name brand snobs.... Having a Starrett, will not make my work any better. For wood working, I really can't see the need for extreme accuracy, when temerature/humidity changes can make wood move more than the accuracy of the cheapest square......

[george wilson]

For many,many years I just used a Marples square that I bought back in the early 60's. When I got into machine tool work as well,I began to acquire used high precision squares. I can assure all of you that I did not pay $2000.00 for a 24" square. I got my squares used for pennies on the dollar.

I'm not paying $10.800.00 for that wall mounted tool cabinet on Woodnet,either!!!

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> I need to get a REAL precision square.

Here is some info you might find helpful.

No matter how much you spend for a device, you still don't know if it is square. I ran a large tool and die shop and we purchased a number of Brown & Sharp and Starrett devices and some of them were not "square". We had "standards" that our quality department periodically had validated by an outside service that we then used to verify the worker's tools.

One day, one of our designers brought in two plastic drawing triangles he had purchased at a local art supply store. He had them compared to our standards and they were as accurate as the tools could measure. The triangle cost a couple of dollars each. They would certainly serve very well as the "standard" in any woodworking shop to validate and/or adjust other devices.

An excellent way to validate the accuracy of the plastic squares is to use two squares on a flat surface. Get a $10-12 plastic 30-60-90 drafting square. To prove it's exactly 90°, take two to a glass counter, put the shorter legs on the counter and face the longer legs away from each other and butt them together (like a teepee). If the legs exactly butt, you can assume you have two perfect 90° angles. Using one of the plastic squares, do the same thing using your other tools. Any that mismatch, means that the tool is not square. You can also take the plastic square with you whenever you go to purchase another tool. Keep your "standard" somewhere where it doesn't get banged up.

Finally, remember that the wood you are using will expand and contract a couple of thousands from one day to the other. Does't pay to get too uptight.

While we are at it, I also only purchase the cheapest of adjustable squares. I square them with a drafting triangle and an auger file until they are square across 10". And I own a Bridge City square that isn't that accurate. Stainless steel machinist's squares are only square until you drop them. I have had several over the years and each has found a away to drop to the floor.

The key is to NEVER use your best square on for day to day measuring. Use it only as a reference tool to verify and/or adjust your other day to day tools.

In a comparison test reported in Fine Woodworking Magazine a couple of years ago, the Stanley 46-123 square was awarded the best value. It's much less expensive than a Starrett and just as accurate.

[Prashun Patel]

This is my test for square, and all I am looking for:

If I joint and rip two pieces of stock to be square on 4 sides, they should fit together with no visible gap when laid on a flat surface and butted up to each other. That's good enough for me...for now...

[Will Overton]

... but will its slide be reliable enough for setting up jointer fences and the like?

Yup!

I have a few Staretts (including 2 double squares) and a bunch of WoodPecker squares and triangles. I periodically check them against each other. Except for a 32", WoodPecker "T" square which got out of square once, they have all stayed as perfect as the day I got them. WoodPecker replace the "T" square, no questions asked.

[Josh Rudolph]

OK, maybe I'll get some flames


Then I can also join the tool name brand snobs.... Having a Starrett, will not make my work any better. For wood working, I really can't see the need for extreme accuracy, when temerature/humidity changes can make wood move more than the accuracy of the cheapest square......

I wouldn't have thought you would get flamed until you called most of us tool name brand snobs. :rolleyes:

[Steve Jenkins]

This was already mentioned somewhere in this thread but when jointing stock for a glue up lay out and mark all your boards then alternate which face is against the fence. this will cancel out any out of square with the fence. Makes gluing up panels much easier and less time consuming.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I wouldn't have thought you would get flamed until you called most of us tool name brand snobs. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, I want to join the ranks of the tool name brand snobs.:) I wish I could justify a Starrett..... Or A L-N plane... My skills are so lacking that still can't make a square cabinet.:o

[Neil Brooks]

Though I DO have a Starrett combo square AND the baby (4") double square (and thoroughly enjoy them), one of the things that I try to remind myself of is .... particularly with furniture .... it's much more important to be consistent than precise.

In other words ... while I may try to nail my dimensions, in the early part of a project ... I'm much more concerned with what actually exists, later, than with what the dimensions "should have been."

Once I figured that out ... life got just a wee bit easier :)

[george wilson]

I don't insist on a particular name. I buy from a used tool dealer who usually has good old American made things since he generally buys from closing machine shops. Wether it's Starrett,B&S,Tumico,or Lufkin(who used to make tools as fine as any),I'll get it if the price is right,and the item is in good condition.

[Prashun Patel]

Followup: I got the GROZ 3-set from Rockler. Very happy with it.

[Bob Rossi]

I need to get a REAL precision square.

I'm debating between the Incra Guaranteed Square and the Starett Double square.

The Starett slides and has a rule, which makes it more versatile, but will its slide be reliable enough for setting up jointer fences and the like?

Here is what I would do: Grab a piece of wood about 10 x 10 inches, joint one edge of it, take it to your local tool supply and check each square using this method: http://zo-d.com/stuff/how-do-i/how-to-check-and-adjust-a-framing-square.html

When you find a square that is sufficiently square, buy it.

[Russell Smallwood]

Followup: I got the GROZ 3-set from Rockler. Very happy with it.

Me too. But not so much.

The two longer squares were out of square (and I'm not usually very picky). Credit to Rockler, they are sending me a new set no questions asked. Hope I just got a bad set.

[Brian Kent]

Prashun,

Congratulations on sorting through the layers of standards from this thread. I sat back and watched since I couldn't tell what was machinist standard, woodworking machine setup standard and wood marking standard. I have one Starrett combo and some plastic drafting triangles. So far they match up to each other and have done the job well of setting up the jointer, table saw, and drill press and bandsaw tables.

Please let us know if your new Groz squares do the job you need them to do.

Brian

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

An excellent way to validate the accuracy of the plastic squares is to use two squares on a flat surface. Get a $10-12 plastic 30-60-90 drafting square. To prove it's exactly 90°, take two to a glass counter, put the shorter legs on the counter and face the longer legs away from each other and butt them together (like a teepee). If the legs exactly butt, you can assume you have two perfect 90° angles. Or you could have 2 complementary angles. Such as 91* and 89*.

[Rod Sheridan]

I need to get a REAL precision square.

I'm debating between the Incra Guaranteed Square and the Starett Double square.

The Starett slides and has a rule, which makes it more versatile, but will its slide be reliable enough for setting up jointer fences and the like?

Hi Prashun, I have the Lee Valley 6 inch engineers square.

Reasonably priced and reasonably accurate.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32601&cat=1,42936

Regards, Rod.

[Myk Rian]

Jointer fences don't require lab grade tools.
I use a plastic triangle from the craft store. Just as accurate as my Starrett and Incra squares.

[Paul Bombardt]

I use a Bridge City 4" and a Pinnacle 12" (similar to the woodpeckers above). The Bridge City is by far the best square I've ever used, and find myself reaching for it all the time.

[Richard Wagner]

How many times do you have to move a sliding square to induce enough wear on the beam to create an intolerable error. And this brings up another previously asked question. When doing wood work, how much error is tolerable?

[george wilson]

.00001" per foot is tolerable.:)

[Mark Denovich]

Jointer fences don't require lab grade tools.

Agreed. Your technique (how you push the wood through the jointer) will have a much greater impact on the squareness of your edges than your machine setup will.

[Mark Denovich]

I will say that I have a load of measuring tools at my disposal... I find that my cheap (Enco imports) engineer squares and particularly my Grizzly 8"x18" solid steel squares work well for machine setup, even though I know I'm the weak leak in my quest for accuracy.

[Van Huskey]

.00001" per foot is tolerable.:)

You are absolutely correct. Now, what is the most error per foot in a square used for woodworking machine setup which you still deem tolerable? :)

[Chris Padilla]

While I'd never advocate spending thousands on super-accurate squares, I think for under $200, one can get a decent assortment of "pretty square" squares/straightedges that can reliably setup woodworking equipment. I figure one might as well setup the equipment to tighter tolerances than the material the equipment services. It surely can't hurt the performance and as one or two alluded to, it can actually improves one's performance and ultimately, satisfaction. :)

[Van Huskey]

Anyone looking for a great square might also look at these:

http://www.woodpeck.com/640square.html

Limited time only

[raul segura]

I like fast cars but have never owned one and the wife said I don't need one.
I like the idea of at least one very nice square and pulling it out for the accuracy of my tooling.
I often reach for a magazine cover or sheet of paper as they are very square, the plastic art/drafting plastic is good to, but I have had one out of square.
Id get something heavy, then get cheaper ones as disposables, as you will always find a way to drop them if you are in a hurry. Some people like collecting very nice tools and that is great, they usually feel much more substantial in the hand. I'm not knocking any one I'm just saying things are often relative to what one thinks and perhaps a tax bracket or two.
A fast car helps climbing a hill, but it is still the driver that makes that turn where there is (supposed) to be a turn. You don't want to over shoot. Still I like nice cars. Wish I had one.