Buck Bro. Chisels

[John Dingman]

Have any of you checked out these Buck Brother's Chisels?

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/images_p/C!00730.jpg[/url]

Not a bad deal...$77.36 for 9 Chisels. That is, if they are decent quality. Do any of you know anything about them?

Thanks,
John
p.s btw the Link to them is [url=http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/C!00730.htm]Here. (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/images_p/C!00730.jpg)

[Louis Bois]

John,

My parents taught me this a long time ago..."if you can't say anything good about someone...or in this case something...don't say anything at all". Let's just say that the Buck Brothers "of old" really had a fine product...

[John Dingman]

John,

My parents taught me this a long time ago..."if you can't say anything good about someone...or in this case something...don't say anything at all". Let's just say that the Buck Brothers "of old" really had a fine product...Louis,

That's what I thought! Like my Dad always used to say......."If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is."

Thanks,
John

[Tom LaRussa]

Have any of you checked out these Buck Brother's Chisels?
John,

I've never looked at new Buck Bros chisels, but I bought a new replacement plane blade by Buck Brothers several months ago.

Made out of real metal! :p

The old BB chisels are supposed to be really good, but it's hard to buy them anymore because prices went so high when the eBay folks found out Bob Smalser likes them. ;)

[Matt Cotter]

This is info that I have heard on another forum regarding these chisels:

They state that these are hand forged high carbon steel and tempered and hardened to Rc59 with real wood handles, and they're the same length as the Sorby's too, so what's not to love? http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/raised.gif

(pause)

Well, here's the scoop. I spoke to the retailer directly - I called them up to get the rest of the story. These Buck Bros. chisels were found in the actual factory where they still make other Buck Bros. products today. These chisels have not been made for quite some time and the tooling was retired decades ago. What was found was a stash of the blades themselves for the bench, paring, and crank-kneck chisels. They've been recently sharpened and fitted with new wooden handles that are true to the original designs (save for the brass vs. steel grommets from what I can see). The retailer had a relationship with Buck Bros. that allowed him to acquire this inventory for relatively cheap, and is passing on the savings to the customers. But the reality is these chisels are the real deal and will never be offered again. He mentioned re-tooling and manufacturing costs prohibit Buck Bros. to realistically make a hand forged blade of this quality in the U.S. (which is the standard demise for nearly all premium U.S. handtoolmakers), so yeah, these are it.

I think I might pick up a set.

[Peter Gavin]

I hope I can trust your source, because I just ordered the full nine chisel set. :) I've been looking at chisels and now seemed to be the time to go for it.

Peter

[Tom LaRussa]

These Buck Bros. chisels were found in the actual factory where they still make other Buck Bros. products today. These chisels have not been made for quite some time and the tooling was retired decades ago. What was found was a stash of the blades themselves for the bench, paring, and crank-kneck chisels. They've been recently sharpened and fitted with new wooden handles that are true to the original designs (save for the brass vs. steel grommets from what I can see).
According to the "additional info" provided, (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/BuckBrosChisels.htm), these blades were forged in the 1960's.

Question: Is that far enough back so these count as "the good stuff," or are they from early in the demise period?

[Karl Laustrup]

Well, they convinced me. I just ordered the full set of bench chisels as well as the complete set of crank neck chisels.

Hope they're as good as touted.

[Peter Gavin]

I just got an e-mail that due to a "recent flurry of orders" my order is delayed. They expect to have more in stock by Jan 19 and will ship them then.

Peter:mad:

[Karl Laustrup]

I just got an e-mail that due to a "recent flurry of orders" my order is delayed. They expect to have more in stock by Jan 19 and will ship them then.

Peter:mad:
Got the same message Peter. Now I'm wondering if the "new stock" will be the same as shown on the web site. I'm wondering how much "old stock" was in that factory. I know chisel blades don't take up much room, but....................

[RichMagnone]

I wrote:
> It is my understanding that these chisels are from "old stock" found at
the Buck Bros. facility. It is also my understanding that there may be a delay or backorder on these items. Please let me know whether any "additional stock" will be the same as the original stock ordered as I suspect that "newer stock" might be of a lesser quality than the older.

They Wrote:
> The Buck Bros. Bench chisels are still being produced. I have no reason
to believe that they are of lesser quality than the old stock chisels from
the 60's. The main difference is that the equipment to forge the old patterns no longer exists and it is not economical to retool for them, thus when
they are gone, they're gone. The bench chisels do use a authentic handle which has been produced for over 100 years. If the quality of the steel is of primary concern, we offer other chisels of the highest quality steel made in USA, Europe and Japan. ...we expect to start offering the new Lie-Nielsen 5 piece sets in A2 tool steel priced at a little under $250 this month. These are styled after a venerable Stanley type popular at the turn of the 20th century.
Thanks for your interest!
Best regards,
Bill Kohr

I wrote:
>Thanks for your prompt reply I am a bit confused (my fault, I am sure) and
have re-read your response a few times. Let me try to clarify - yes, my
concern is in regard to the metal. It is my understanding - and I could be
wrong - that, in essence, you guys found a stash of old blades from circa
1960 that you are fitting on to new handles and offering as part of this
special. If this is the case, then I am completely satisfied and wish to
continue. I know that the offer said that they were available "while they
last" - thus, my concern is that the older blades found in the "stash" may
not last and might be replaced with "modern day" steel on the authentic wood
handle. If that is the case, then I would not want to proceed with the
order.

They wrote:
>Rich,

The steel used today is the steel used in the 1960's. If it were the
1860's, it would be a different matter.

The importance of the Buck Bros. offerings is:
A: Authentic chisels from a company in business in the same
location/factory for 150+ years creating essentially the same tools with the
same handles.
B. Limited quantity of forgings (roughly shaped metal pieces which are then
machined and handled) of 'patterns' i.e.: paring which are no longer
reproducible.
The tools are wholly made by Buck Bros including the handles. We are simply
reselling their products (for as long as the limited forgings last).
Hope this clarifies.
Best regards,
Bill Kohr


Franly, I don't know what to think at this point other than that the price seems good for the number of chisels. Then again, craftsman has been making saws for 100 years - that does not mean that today's saws are any good. :confused:

[Karl Laustrup]

Well, it seems that Bill Kohr, or someone from the company, has excelled at political double speak. I've read the diatribe a couple of times and still don't know the answer to your original question.
I will think this over for a couple more days before I make a decision whether to cancel my order or not.
Thanks for the info Rich.

[Roy Wall]

I wrote:
If the quality of the steel is of primary concern, we offer other chisels of the highest quality steel made in USA, Europe and Japan. ...we expect to start offering the new Lie-Nielsen 5 piece sets in A2 tool steel priced at a little under $250 this month. These are styled after a venerable Stanley type popular at the turn of the 20th century.
Thanks for your interest!
Best regards,
Bill Kohr


He says that........"we offer other chisels of the highest quality steel mad in USA, etc......"

since He is "vague" in his description.......it is evident to me these are not the "finest steel" chisels they make....

Agreed--------definately a political statement..........:cool:

[Karl Laustrup]

I have cancelled my order as of late this morning. While I think the chisels would have made a decent addition to my tool chest, I don't care for the double talk, political type spin that was put on regarding the questions about these "old style steel chisels".

If I want to hear that kind of answer to a question, all I need do is ask a question of just about any politician.

[RichMagnone]

FYI, I received this follow up from the owner this morning:

>Richard,
I was a little hurried as I was answering your questions earlier today and
email is not always the most effective form of communication.
I wanted to assure you that it is fine to cancel your order if you wish.
The last thing we want to do is ship a product to a person which does not
meet their expectations. There are lots of similar tools for good reason.
Each of has our own idea of what is most suitable, and using that tool which
meets our needs is truly a pleasure.
Best regards,
Bill Kohr

I'm going to keep my order, as I think the price is still good for that many chisels (as I have only three el cheapo models)

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I ordered a set of the straight paring chisels, but I definitely don't want to get a current Buck product. I guess I'll cancel too.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I thought it over and I'm not going to give up that easily. I sent an e-mail requesting further clarification of the clarification.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I asked the following question:

"I ordered these chisels because I read on several woodworking forums that
they were hand forged, old stock that could not be manufactured today
because the tooling had been destroyed. Your response that they are on
backorder alarms me as I do not want current Buck production tools with
wooden handles. Could you please clarify the situation?"

Here's the response.

"Bench chisels never went out of production and we do offer them with the
original style wood handles produced in the same plant for over 150 years.


All of the other chisels Buck Chisels and Gouges we offer are made from
forgings made in the 1960's which are machined and handled by Buck Bros
before shipping them to us. When these forgings are gone, they will cease
to be offered because the cost of tooling to start producing them again
would be prohibitive due to the limited demand for these specialty tools."

Since there is a money back gurantee, I'll wait and see what they look like before making up my mind.

[Shawn Swafford]

Here is another seller of the buck chisels. Looks like these chisels aren't the great hidden find they have lead us to believe.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/eserv/eclipse.ecl?PROCID=WEBPROC.WOEB.MAIN%26SEARCH%3D%0 D%0Abuck+chisels%0D%0A&TRACKNO=J8632665363

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Shawn, those are the bench chisels at Jamestown Distributors. The chisels they are claiming are old stock are paring chisels, straight and crank neck.

[Shawn Swafford]

I could be mistaken, but it sure sounds like the bench chisels are also from old stock from what is written on Craftsman Studio web page. The bench chisels page links to the same information as the other styles of chisels where it mentions the blades dating back to the 60's. But.... I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time :D .

Shawn

[RichMagnone]

Ok, I have the answer:

I wrote:

Bill - I think I will stick with my order. I am just still a bit confused -
this info came from your website where I ordered the chisels:
>>>>We learned of a small remaining supply of old-stock chisels
hand-forged in the 1960's which we were able to purchase and are offering here. Made of the Buck Bros. specially modified high carbon steel, they are hardened to Rc59 and tempered to produce a sharp long lasting edge. Chisels shown above to the left are antique Buck Bros. chisels. It is interesting to note that the handle styles of the chisels available today are nearly identical to the antique tools. We purchased these chisels for substantially less than the cost of a comparable chisel manufactured today and are passing the savings on to you ... While they last.<<<<<<<
Thus, are the chisels I am purchasing the very same ones you mention above -
that is, "the small remaining supply of old-stock chisels hand-forged in the
1960's"??


They wrote back:
Hi Rich,
I'm sorry for the confusion. Writing for the web is necessarily brief,
otherwise is never read.
On the intro page we are speaking about the Buck Bros chisels in general.
All of the chisels and gouges "except" the bench chisels are old stock.
Because there was a greater demand for bench chisels, they retooled to be
able to continue producing these chisels so there was never a need to set
back stock. ...they just made new dies and continued producing these
chisels as they had always done using new equipment. ...so they are still
making these chisels from scratch today.
I understand some people seen to feel that the steel might be better in the
1960's vintage chisels. From my limited testing of the chisels in ordinary
woodworking use, I have not been able to detect any discernable difference.
Our reason for offering all of these chisels is because we feel they are a
very good value and offer an interesting historical perspective. We do not
infer that the steel is extraordinary in any way - just good quality which I
think is a fair statement. As I mentioned before, we do offer chisels with
extraordinary properties, but they 5-6 times the price.
Best regards,
Bill Kohr

I guess they are not what we thought they were... Now, on their own, with all we know, are they a good value?

[Shawn Swafford]

See....I said I could be wrong :D . They look like nice chisels for the money though.

Shawn

[Peter Gavin]

I cancelled my Buck Bros order and bought these on sale at Amazon.com. Normally 79.95 on sale for 49.99 with free shipping.

Now if only I can figure out how to insert the picture.........

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000224EV.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Peter Gavin]

I received my Marples chisels last night and I'm very happy with them. Without even sharpening them I cut a 1/2 x1 inch mortise an inch deep in an old chunk of oak (using Bob Smalzer's technique. Thanks Bob) in about 5 minutes flat. The edges and bottom of the mortise came out flat and square. Since it was the first hand cut mortise I've ever cut I have to give the credit to the tool more than to my skill. These chisels say Marples on them (rather than Irvin) and the back says made by Record.

Peter

[Dennis McDonaugh]

The Buck chisels arrived today-one set each of the straight paring chisels and crank neck paring chisels. They are huge! I haven't had a chance to do anything but look at them, but they are nicely ground. The bevel is straight and the back has minimal machining marks. I'll hone them tomorrow and give them a test spin,

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I started working on the crank neck chisels this morning. The factory ground bevel looks flat, but its actually a slight hollow ground which made sharpening the bevel pretty easy. The backs were fairly flat, but the machining marks were deeper than I thought. It took quite a while to erase them on the water stones. I didn't measure the bevels, but they appear to be 20 degrees which I left alone.

There is something wrong with the tooling on the 1/4" chisel. When the cutting edge is square, the back edge of the bevel is canted to one side. At first I thought the chisel was thicker on one side than the other, but I measured it with a micrometer and it is the same thickness on both sides. It doesn't affect anything except my anal retentative tendencies and not worth the trouble to send back, especially in light of the 3/4 and 1" chisels. They also have some machinging deficiencies. The bevel on one side of the chisel doesn't match the other side. You can tell when you look at the front of the blade that something is out of kilter. The same problem may affect the 1/4" chisel, but the bevels are so small its hard to see any difference.

Overall, they are great looking chisels, large well made oak handles and long, graceful blades. I'm did a little paring on pine end grain and they cut very well and left a smooth surface. I am interested in seeing how well the edge holds up to normal paring work.

These chisels are supposed to be left over from blanks forged in the 60s. Unfortunately, it looks like they were ground today, or Buck quality begain slipping way before they were made. Even with their deficiencies I'd say they were worth the $20 or so apiece I paid for them, but they are not the quality of LNs or even some other premium brands for sale today.