Rogue Sawstop Brake Activation

[Michael Peet]

I had my first Sawstop brake activation today. I still don't know what caused it - it fired immediately upon starting the saw, and the blade wasn't even spinning fast enough to cause it to retract into the saw. In fact I had no idea what was up until I checked the status lights. I was not touching it, obviously, nor was anything metal. I had just finished ripping a couple pieces of jarrah and was starting it up to cut a couple more.

174302

As you can see from the pic, the aluminum brake is barely scathed, and I think I am going to try to continue to the use the blade (WWII) as there didn't appear to be any damage, unless the cut quality is suffering.

Thought I'd share, since I thought it was strange. SS is closed until Monday but I will give them a ring then and see what they think. Luckily I had a spare brake.. I have to get some traction on these presents :eek:.

Mike

[Victor Robinson]

Wow, first I have ever heard of this. I will be interested to hear what you learn and what Sawstop says. We probably won't know much until they run the diagnostics on the cartridge. I hope your WWII is still just as good as before...may need a resharpening on some teeth...

[Elijah Fontenot]

Michael, The same thing happened to me with my SS. I called them and told them what happened and then I sent in my brake cartridge to get diagnosed. I did have to pay for it to be shipped there, but what they found was that it was not my fault.

In my ON/OFF switch, when the contacts made contact, they made contact not exactly at the same time and created "Noise" and sent that "Noise" to the cartridge thus creating an activation. The difference in contact time was measured in some .0000XX number i believe.

By all means i am electrically impared and don't understand much of it, but that was what I got out of it in laymans terms.

They are an AWESOME company to fix thier problems and gave me lots of free stuff which was more than adequate. Thier customer service lady was extremely polite and was great with emails and phone calls.

They sent me a new control box with updated software to my other brakes and to the control box (big on/off switch box) and i haven't had any problems since.

I hope your issue is easily solved and you get back to making sawdust!

[Jay Allen]

It happend in a shop where I used to work too. They were very good about it when we called. All it took was sending the cartridge to them for testing to get a replacement. We had to use the back-up for a while, but it came in a few days.

[Don Alexander]

seems to me like if there are some defective blade brakes out there that activate it for no apparent reason, it is likely that there are also some out there that will fail to activate period and that would suck big time

moral of the story is that it would behoove us all to keep our fingers away from the blade SawStop or no

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I don't own a SawStop but......

a person should not be surprised that these intermittant failures happen. I have made a decent living for over 40 years because electonics equipments fail.....Even systems that cost 1-2 MILLION dollars....they fail.

If I owned a SS I would still practice keeping any part of my body away from the spinning blade.

[Michael Peet]

Well, this just happened again on my spare brake. I hope it's as simple as replacing the control box. I also hope I get a couple replacement brakes free of charge :|

Thanks all for the replies.

Mike

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I recommend that you remove your zero clearance insert and then shine a light down into the area with the blade to see if there is a finger or hot dog down there that may be touching the blade periodically. :-)

[Will Overton]

If I owned a SS I would still practice keeping any part of my body away from the spinning blade.

I do own a SS and agree with this completely. I didn't buy a SS so I could be careless, but just in case I make a mistake.

[Cody Colston]

seems to me like if there are some defective blade brakes out there that activate it for no apparent reason, it is likely that there are also some out there that will fail to activate period and that would suck big time.

It's also going to happen. It's just a matter of time. Like Ken said, electronic equipment fails. Period.

[Joe Leigh]

My opinion is that this is just the tip of the inevitable iceberg. I agree wholeheartedly with Cody, just a matter of time before someone gets badly injured because the software/electronics fail. It's a mathematical certainty. When that time comes SawStop will be no more and the only thing that will matter is what most have been preaching here since SawStop sold it's first unit; this tool is no substitute for safe practices and vigilance.
Wishing everyone a safe Holiday...

[Larry Frank]

I have a SS also and bought it for the extra protection and not to be careless.

I would be most interested in what SS actual finds out from the cartridge. I would like to know what the gap between the blade and brake was. Any information at all about the actual cause would be great help.

[George Bregar]

My opinion is that this is just the tip of the inevitable iceberg. I agree wholeheartedly with Cody, just a matter of time before someone gets badly injured because the software/electronics fail. It's a mathematical certainty. When that time comes SawStop will be no more and the only thing that will matter is what most have been preaching here since SawStop sold it's first unit; this tool is no substitute for safe practices and vigilance.
Wishing everyone a safe Holiday... People don't get "badly injured because the software/electronics fail". They get injured because they put a hand in the blade. And again, my guess is that SAW STOP warns people just like every other manufacturer.

Why I think you and Cody are wrong is that every table saw injury likely brings a lawsuit...yet manufacturers of traditional saws keep cranking them out and stay in business. Saw Stop has AVOIDED many many lawsuits because of their technology...wander over to their website, they talk about them. If and when one happens, they are already millions of dollars ahead.

Edit:

1. Do not rely on the SawStop safety system to protect against unsafe operation. Although the
system is designed to stop the blade very quickly in the event of an accidental contact, it
cannot react until contact is made. This means that you will receive at least a minor injury.
Therefore, always use safe operating practices. The SawStop safety system should be
considered as a last measure to minimize injury when all other safety practices and devices
have failed to prevent an accident.

[Peter Aeschliman]

My brake fired on start up recently as well... but I'm pretty sure it was my fault. I haven't sent the brake in to get analyzed, but here's what happened for me:

I was getting ready to cut a piece of plywood. I put the fence in position and set the plywood down close to the blade to see if the teeth would contact the piece in the right spot. I then walked over and turned on my dust collector, came back, and turned on the saw... before pulling the workpiece back. Turns out the front edge of the plywood was still in a gullet. The motor stalled out and the saw shut itself down. I said many swear words... looked, and the brake hadn't fired.... thank God, I said to myself. I then tried to start the saw to see if it still worked, and I got nothing. Many more curses. I waited about a minute, and tried again. The saw started perfectly. I shut it down, grabbed my plywood, and tried to start the saw again. POP! the brake fired before the blade even started moving.

I figure I probably shorted something out in the brake when I stalled out the motor. Although I don't think the saw should have fired, my mistake is probably what caused it.

Michael, it's tough getting the blade off when the blade doesn't sink into the brake, huh?? The spring was still under compression, so it took me a good 30 minutes of careful prying to get the blade and brake off.

I haven't had any problems with the saw since I replaced the brake and blade.

[Glenn Vaughn]

Every malfunction I have seen reported involves the SS either firing the brake or shutting down. My understranding of the software is tht it runs diagnostics and shuts down if all is not perfect.

The brake is fired by runing a current through a fusible link (wire) that melts it and releases the spring. I guess it is possible to get enough sawdust into the break cartrige to jam the spring - examiing the cartrige on a regular basis is part of the general maintenance of the saw. A failure of the cartrige because of sawdust would be a user fault - not a design fault.

I have had the SS for a year now and am still concious of the blade and the need for caution around it. I don't want to hear the bang; neither do I want the expense of replacing my spare brake. If my SS fires due to a malfunction, I won't be happy because of the expense; I will not be upset though because I know it is doing what it is supposed to do - stopping the saw if it detects anything ouside of the defined operating parameters.

[Don Alexander]

well what i posted was certainly not a criticism of Sawstop it was specifically intended to remind us all that even with a SS and its unique safety feature that the very best safety feature of all is to use any saw wisely and carefully

it would be a tragic mistake to get careless just because you are using a SS it would be just as tragic to get careless using any other brand of saw

[Chris Padilla]

174366
TWWWWEEEEEETTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's all take a time out here for a few...please be respectful and friendly....

[Don Alexander]

Let's all take a time out here for a few...please be respectful and friendly....


not quite sure what in this particular thread could be construed as disrespectful or unfriendly , but its always good to keep that in mind :)

[Chris Padilla]

Don, preemptive strike. SS threads have a way of going down the tubes...fast.... Do a search on them...most of them are locked! :)

[Dave MacArthur]

Hope we can stay on track of this thread, getting the word out about why this false-positive activation occurred, it's useful info for SS owners.
Interested to hear what they find from your cartridge download, while a false-positive cartridge firing is annoying, it's vastly better than a too-lenient firing algorithm. It sounds like Elijah's issue may be the culprit. Also interested to hear how long it takes to get replacement cartridges--I've got a new sawstop and may be in your shoes someday.

Mods, if I'm the bad apple here, apologies--feel free to delete me ;) I see CP was already here while I was typing this, Back on track!

[Michael Peet]

Michael, it's tough getting the blade off when the blade doesn't sink into the brake, huh?? The spring was still under compression, so it took me a good 30 minutes of careful prying to get the blade and brake off.

Peter, YES it was very difficult to get the blade and brake out afterward. It was easier the second time though.


Someone reports a positive brake activation

Just for the record, I had two false-positive activations yesterday; my spare brake fired the same exact way after a couple hours of use. Of course this has to happen the only time I'm actually building things with a deadline. Looks like no one is getting presents this year unless I buy a third brake and run in bypass mode.

Mike

[Joe Leigh]

Well it is certainly not my intention to "waylay" this thread or in any way contribute to any "logically faulty allegory" so I'll ask it respectfully and straight;
If it's possible for the protection circuitry to malfunction and fire the brake when it shouldn't have, as it has been documented to do numerous times, then isn't it logical to conclude that the same circuitry may fail to fire the brake when it should?
That's the only point I've tried to make here. No hyperbole, no subliminal messages.
To Michael, the original poster, I hope that SawStop corrects whatever issues you are having. I also hope that you have a long, safe and injury free relationship with your Sawstop.
Enjoy the Holidays!

[Paul DeCarlo]

I've had the benefit of using a SawStop since early 2006 in a commercial setting where there are multiple users. We have had many activations in the almost 5 years with the saw and to my recollection only one was unexplainable. We sent that cartridge back to the company and they replaced it free of charge. Most all of the activations have occurred due to something conductive hitting the blade which is supposed to happen.
I'll echo others' sentiments here that nothing is fool proof, no system is perfect. I will tell you from the thousands of hours I've had on that saw that it NEVER enters my mind to be careless because of the safety net the technology provides. The constant reminder is the spinning blade and the inherent self preservation mode that kicks in while operating it.

[Don Bullock]

If I owned a SS I would still practice keeping any part of my body away from the spinning blade.

Ken, you are exactly right. I do own a SS and I find that I am far more aware of safe table saw practices because of it. I don't want to be one of those who activates the brake.

Michael, please make sure to post the results of the evaluation of your problem from SS. Like other owners I'd be very interested in finding what they say. Thanks for the post. BTW -- I don't own an extra brake. I figured if it ever fired I wouldn't be "ready" to use the saw until after I got a new brake.

[Peter Aeschliman]

If it's possible for the protection circuitry to malfunction and fire the brake when it shouldn't have, as it has been documented to do numerous times, then isn't it logical to conclude that the same circuitry may fail to fire the brake when it should?
That's the only point I've tried to make here. No hyperbole, no subliminal messages.

It's a fair point. I think people assumed you were saying that since there's a chance that it won't fire when it should, the SS is completely worthless. It looks like that's not what you were saying, but I think others in this thread took it that way and either agreed or disagreed with what is, in my opinion, an irrational conclusion... a conclusion that you didn't directly draw.

Of course, like most of reality, the truth is somewhere in the middle. It's a game of probability. If 1 in 100 brakes don't fire when they should, the "glass half full" view is that the saw saved 99 people from serious injury...

[Dave MacArthur]

If it's possible for the protection circuitry to malfunction and fire the brake when it shouldn't have,

Joe,
This statement is where your assumptions may be leading you astray. The brake did NOT "fire when it shouldn't have". This is a fine point, so give me a second and follow along with an open mind. I write this with a background of a degree in Probability and Statistics, and 24 years of experience as a safety officer in analyzing safety failures in fighter aircraft operations, identifying causal factors in crashes and designing operational procedures to manage risk in fighter aircraft operations where every single thing you do carries significant risk.

In risk management, the first question you ask is "How acceptable is it to have the occurrence we're guarding against happen--how much risk can we accept to achieve the mission?" If you're flying over Iraq, then maybe it's acceptable to design operations that will probably kill 2-4 pilots and lose 200 million worth of planes, to ensure bombs on target on time... If you're designing risk measures for a table-saw brake, the answer is ZERO occurrences are acceptable--therefore you can not accept as much risk, and procedures and algorithms must trigger earlier and more conservatively to ensure zero failures.

In any control application, you must account for statistical variations in all the timings, sensors, functions, etc. In this case, Saw Stop must engineer in for the sensitivity of the sensor...AND the variations between each sensor manufactured and accepted within some specific tolerance (no matter how tight), and so to ensure ALL sensors that might be on a saw will trigger acceptably, they must set their "FIRE BRAKE NOW!" control algorithm to work on the LEAST sensitive sensor--just to be sure.

Then they must account for the speed of activation differences between springs/activators, they run a zillion tests and find some statistical curve that all activators function within .0001 seconds, but 95% function within .00007 seconds, etc... So they must then design their algorithm to STILL WORK ACCEPTABLY for all expected activator speeds, again engineering to the worst case.

Then they must account for user differences in how far the brake is set from the blade, again accounting for the furthest possible distance...

Then they must account for how fast folks might be pushing the wood into the blade, again accounting for the worst, highest speed, and set their algorithm to trigger accordingly conservatively...

Then they must... You get the picture.

When they design the system, they DO NOT say (as you seem to think they should), "How can we make a brake that will NEVER trigger by mistake and waste a brake?". Instead, the statement is this:
"1. How can we make a brake that will NEVER FAIL TO TRIGGER when it should--and then
2. we'd like to MINIMIZE it triggering when there is no real danger, but it did it to conservatively account for all the possible variances just to be sure".

But it should be obvious to you from the above discussion on real-world variance that in order to achieve objective #1 of NEVER FAILING, then you MUST design conservatively to be sure to never miss, and therefore there WILL be some times the brake fires when your finger wasn't really there, just to account for tolerances in sensors, activators, wood moisture, dude's personal conductivity, dry skin, speed of push, distance of brake to blade, etc. etc... This is called a "false positive" firing.

It is for this reason that your going in statement/position "the brake fired when it shouldn't have" is wrong--the brake DID FIRE when it should have, according to a conservative algorithm to ensure it never misses a real event. It is your view that when a safety device triggers but didn't HAVE to it is a failure, that is incorrect, I'm sorry but there's just no other way to put it.

Now, a separate but valid area of discussion is how can SawStop tighten up it's algorithm to have fewer of these "false positive" firings. They can do this by looking at every false activation and seeing what happened, gathering data to tighten their statistical curves and see if it's acceptable to safely reduce the tolerances, and thus reduce or eliminate certain false positive firings. Which they are doing, and doing in an amazingly admirable way--the even designed into their cartridges a data recording device to allow them to gather data on every firing, they collect and use it, and they give you a free cartridge! Name one other manufacturer that even collects data from table saw injuries and responds to you, in an attempt to improve their saw.

[Don Alexander]

gotcha :)

[Brian Penning]

Ken, you are exactly right. I do own a SS and I find that I am fare more aware of safe table saw practices because of it. I don't want to be one of those who activates the brake.


Honestly, I myself can't say the same.
I really became aware of it when I had to use mine in the bypass mode. I thought "Whoa, I better be more careful here".

[Don Bullock]

Honestly, I myself can't say the same.
I really became aware of it when I had to use mine in the bypass mode. I thought "Whoa, I better be more careful here".

I had to do that the other day when a friend asked me to split a wet pressure treated 2x4 for him. I really went into an alert mode then.

Perhaps I can explain it better: When I had my 1970s vintage Craftsman contractors table saw I was one of those who rarely used the guard. It was in fact more dangerous on some cuts than cutting the wood without it. Taking the guard off and putting it back on was a long difficult process. With the SS my guard is always on the saw unless I'm making a cut that requires that it to be removed. Once I'm done with that cut the guard goes back on. It's very easy! I always have my push sticks ready on the saw top right next to the Incra fence. With the SS there is plenty of room for them. In addition having the brake is just a constant reminder to me when using the saw that I need to plan things out and take care to do the cut right.

[Larry Frank]

Back to the beginning of the thread ... I will be watching this thread to find out what caused the activation of the cartridge. I certainly would like to avoid a false activation on my SS do to the cost of it with the cartridge and the blade.

Please provide updates on what you find out caused the activation.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

Enough of the virtues of SawStop arguments here.

That isn't the subject of this thread. I am really close to spending time to remove all those posts.

That's off topic for this thread.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This thread is temporarily closed. When I return I will edit all of the off topic posts. Enough. This is not a thread to argue the virtues of SawStop or non-SawStop threads. Take it to another thread but history here at SMC has shown it can't be discussed but rather ranted and that thread will end up being removed.

I will ask for other Moderator's opinions. If they disagree with me, I will invite them to open this thread back up as they see fit.

ENOUGH!

[Michael Peet]

I spoke with Saw Stop this morning, and after getting the serial numbers of the brake cartridges they surmise it is the same issue Elijah mentioned in his post - the brakes interpreted the noise inherent in the switch operation as a reason to fire. He said they had seen this problem on a small percentage of units combined with the older brakes.

Both my brakes were bought at the same time so they were both susceptible to this issue. It has been resolved in their newest brakes, and they are sending me two (expedited) to replace those that misfired. They are also sending a shipping label so I can send the two spent cartridges back to them. I will also note that is was very easy and hassle-free working with their support team.

If you are interested, brake serial numbers ending in D13 should include the fix.

Mike

[Joe Jensen]

I've had the benefit of using a SawStop since early 2006 in a commercial setting where there are multiple users. We have had many activations in the almost 5 years with the saw and to my recollection only one was unexplainable. We sent that cartridge back to the company and they replaced it free of charge. Most all of the activations have occurred due to something conductive hitting the blade which is supposed to happen.
I'll echo others' sentiments here that nothing is fool proof, no system is perfect. I will tell you from the thousands of hours I've had on that saw that it NEVER enters my mind to be careless because of the safety net the technology provides. The constant reminder is the spinning blade and the inherent self preservation mode that kicks in while operating it.

Oddly when I bought a SawStop the same thing happened. Before the SawStop I used a PM66 and before that a Unisaw. For the 20 years or so of using them I never had a guard. I was always careful, but stupid. Once I bought the SawStop I was much more aware of safety devices and I never used the Sawstop without the guard. So owning a Sawstop does not automatically make everyone less aware.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This thread was started by the OP to report initially an unjustified firing of his SawStop cartidge. Later he reported that after replacing that failed cartridge, a 2nd cartridge failed in the same manner.

It seems reasonable to have it pointed out that a malfunction in the electronics could result in a failure in the opposite condition meaning the cartridge wouldn't fire when the operators body or other materials that should cause it to fire. In other words, the hot dog would bite the dust on a SawStop.

It also seems reasonable to have it quoted from the SawStop manual that even the manufacturer recommends using normal safe practices and not relying on the SawStop safety devices as your first line of safety.

This thread was not started by the OP to debate the value of the SawStop technology or for rants that safe operating habits make the SS technology unwarranted or that if the technology can fail, why buy it? Sorry. If you want to discuss it start your own thread but as Chris Padilla pointed out they typically don't last long.

If I edited your post, I found some information I considered valuable in it.

If I deleted your post, I found it not germane to the topic of this thread, or argumentative, or just another pile-on comment that lent no value to the thread. If you care to discuss this, you can do so via PMs.

I have just spent 45 minutes cleaning up a thread that I believe has some value to SawStop owners. For the record, I don't own a SawStop. I am not in the employment of SawStop. I have argued here at SMC quite forcefully with the inventor of SawStop. I don't intend on buying a SawStop. I don't get paid by Festool, SS, Grizzly or any tool manufacturer. I bought my own tools and paid retail value and now I'm going go use them.

NO MORE OFF TOPIC POSTS PLEASE.

[Elijah Fontenot]

Michael, thats great that things have worked out for you. I'm glad you had a great experience dealing with SawStop, b/c after having a brake fire it sure is a crappy feeling.

Are they gonna send you a new control box or just update the software in the brakes?

[Dave MacArthur]

Michael,
Good info on the brakes-- I just checked mine, both B03, purchased around 2007 I think.
Couple questions for you, if you don't mind?
1. What model SS do you have, and when was it made?
2. You said , "older brakes", but do you have any more specific info on how old the brakes were, or what lot, what serial # ending etc?

Probably not critical to know unless it happens to me, but the info might help someone else who has it happen and gets on here searching for help. I added some tags to the thread also to help folks searching.
Glad to hear it was easy to work with SS. If this happens to me, I'll have an idea what it is now--thanks again!

[Glenn Vaughn]

I contacted SawStop about the breaks for my Contractor and got this reply:

It’s a combination of the 220v contactor used on the PCS and CNS 220v versions, and cartridge software below D13. It’s a fairly subtle noise interaction that has actually happened on very few saws. D13 software contains fixes that prevent the possibility of this interaction. If you have a 220v contactor, we’ll be happy to reprogram your D10 brake to D13 firmware. If you’re running 115v, this is not an issue.

[Michael Peet]

Are they gonna send you a new control box or just update the software in the brakes?

Elijah, I believe they are only replacing the brakes. They said they modified the logic in the brake to ignore the startup noise during some very short window of time. So the noise will still be there, it just won't trigger the brake anymore.


Michael,
Good info on the brakes-- I just checked mine, both B03, purchased around 2007 I think.
Couple questions for you, if you don't mind?
1. What model SS do you have, and when was it made?
2. You said , "older brakes", but do you have any more specific info on how old the brakes were, or what lot, what serial # ending etc?


Dave, I have a PCS which was manufactured in 2008 (I think). My "older brakes" had serial numbers ending in D10.

Cheers,

Mike

[Mark Major]

Glenn, I'm just curious...does the break have a jack (usb or otherwise) on it that the firmware can be updated remotely much the same way you would do an upgrade on a computer peripheral? Thanks.


Regards, Mark

[Dan Hintz]

I imagine for cost reasons they would not include a standard programming port (such as USB). These things don't normally get reprogrammed, so a blank header (for factory programming) on the board is probably the most they would include.

[Glenn Vaughn]

Glenn, I'm just curious...does the break have a jack (usb or otherwise) on it that the firmware can be updated remotely much the same way you would do an upgrade on a computer peripheral? Thanks.


It has a DB9 connector. I doubt it can be done remotely.

[Michael Peet]

They have a 9-pin serial connector:

174631

Edit, oops Glenn beat me to it.

Mike

[Dan Hintz]

Wow, I'm stunned they even went to that expense... though I suppose for the cost of the saw, what's another $2 in parts.

[Glen Blanchard]

Wow, I'm stunned they even went to that expense... though I suppose for the cost of the saw, what's another $2 in parts.

That's how it plugs in to the saw. Without it there would be no communication.

[Dan Hintz]

Why does it need to talk to the saw (as you can tell, I've never seen one in person)? I thought the brake would be a self-contained unit with only a socket for power...

[Glen Blanchard]

Why does it need to talk to the saw (as you can tell, I've never seen one in person)? I thought the brake would be a self-contained unit with only a socket for power...

Well the brake needs to have an electrical connection with the blade.

[Len Meyer]

Hi All
I took delivery of a new Industrial SawStop on Feb 1st and after making various rips and crosscuts of 28bf of furniture grade 6/4 cherry I had a false activation of the blade brake yesterday. No fingers near it, plastic push stick and featherboard, just ripping a wider piece (already cut) down to a narrower width and bang! I can't find any metal in the cherry and have not removed the cartridge yet or even turned off the "red light" in case maintainng power has any diagnostic benefit. So false activation is alive and well even in the latest equipment shipped from the factory in January. Tomorrow, Monday 2/28, I will call SawStop and ask for some customer service with quick turnaround.

If people are still interested I will post a follow-up. This is crazy after only 3 weeks of careful usage!

Len

Follow-up after Sawstop phone call:
Talked with a somewhat non-accommodating Gretchen at SawStop who told me that:
a. "There is no such thing as a false activation" and
b. "It is absolutely untrue that we have ever had any cartridge or electronics problems"
I really didn't care for the tone of the response. She said I would need to talk with her manager if I wanted anything more than a cartridge replacement if it was there fault.

We'll see what happens after they examine my returned cartridge!
LM

[George Brown]

Well, I'm curious, what did SS say about your problem??

[Chuck Radgowski]

I contacted SawStop about the breaks for my Contractor and got this reply:

It’s a combination of the 220v contactor used on the PCS and CNS 220v versions, and cartridge software below D13. It’s a fairly subtle noise interaction that has actually happened on very few saws. D13 software contains fixes that prevent the possibility of this interaction. If you have a 220v contactor, we’ll be happy to reprogram your D10 brake to D13 firmware. If you’re running 115v, this is not an issue.

I am real close to pulling the trigger on the 115v cabinet saw and rewiring it to 220/230v based on your conversation should I rewire my shop instead of the saw motor?

[Len Meyer]

I'm working with their Technical Support Mgr after being initially stiff armed by the first person I contacted by phone. I will write a follow-up when I have some concrete action on their part. I'm also discussing some other issues with them revolving around both vibration and around the condition of my saw as received from my local supplier.

Thanks for asking
Len

[Vic Damone]

From your clear description of the incident and taking into account the multiple voltages that this product uses there could be a myriad of possibilities for this event. If I'm not mistaken, upon initial start up this devise polls / checks its multiple circuits before full speed is attained. Low voltage signaled sensors can be very susceptible to the rapidly growing RF in our modern environment. These conditions and these higher levels of RF can be almost infinitely variable in nature. The isolation and or filtering technology that is currently being used on many consumer devises can be somewhat behind the curve. Another potential cause could be fluctuation and or noise within your mains line voltage. Your location on the grid, the wiring within your, and even your neighbors dwelling and its proximity, can combine to have a dramatic affect on the stability, and more importantly, the quality of your VAC.

Regardless, if any of these issues played into the start up event you and a few other have experienced, this manufacture seems to be standing behind their product. What seems like only a few currently unexplained misfirings the technology associated with this product remains outstanding as are its detractors who remain stunningly entertaining.

[sunny nic]

Oddly when I bought a SawStop the same thing happened. Before the SawStop I used a PM66 and before that a Unisaw. For the 20 years or so of using them I never had a guard. I was always careful, but stupid. Once I bought the SawStop I was much more aware of safety devices and I never used the Sawstop without the guard. So owning a Sawstop does not automatically make everyone less aware.

Anyway, be careful is always great.

[Len Meyer]

My issue with the Sawstop Industrial Model is now resolved. The Technical Support Mgr. provided a new cartridge and blade fairly quickly after they analyzed my false activation cartridge. They said the electronics indicated an "ungrounded contact" but the readings were inconclusive so they were giving me the benefit of the doubt. They went mum on my other questions about vibration and noise on my particular unit. My Dealer jumped in a traded out that saw for another brand new one which does run a bit smoother and has some subtle upgrades that were not included on the older model I first received in February.

I'm done for now but since I had mixed results dealing with the SawStop team I'm staying neutral and not giving any "rave reviews" about how wonderfully my problems were addressed.

[george wilson]

I warned some time ago about a top notch professional friend of mine who has had several false firings.

I don't think the technology is yet perfected enough. Guess I'll have to keep on keeping my hands out of the blade as I've been doing for over 55 years.

[Myk Rian]

Why does it need to talk to the saw (as you can tell, I've never seen one in person)? I thought the brake would be a self-contained unit with only a socket for power...
The saw has a power panel with all the electronics.
When you turn the saw on, you have to wait while it talks to the brake, and warms it up.
When the brake says "I'm good to go" the saw will start.