Cabinetmakers Floats

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi. I have attached photo's of a set of early Cabinetmaker Floats. The widths range from 1 1/4" to 3/32". When I purchased these a fair time ago they did not have any handles so I turned some new ones out of padauk. Not quite an historically correct timber to use but turned out all right. The areas on the handles that would normally have darkened over time through long term use were then lightly burnt over a flame then rubbed back prior to applying an oil finish. The teeth have been resharpened with some at 8tpi and the remainder at 10tpi all shaped to a rip tooth pattern.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10672.jpg

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10673.jpg

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10679.jpg



http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10676.jpg

[Jim Sebring]

What a find! Those are some pretty rare tools. I have a set of modern planemakers floats, but have never seen anything like your set. Nice job on the handles and restoration work on the teeth.

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks Jim. I have no idea how old these floats are. Was told they looked to be blacksmith made.

[Shawn Russell]

What sort of woodworking application would you use these tools: tenon joints?

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Shawn. These early type of Cabinetmaker Floats are not as aggressive a cut as you would see now with the modern ones versions sold now. These have a finer cut and were used where fine adjustments were needed on pre assembled cabinet joints, and where final clearances on assembled cabinetry such as around draw & door clearances, aprons, and so on. Hope this answers your question.

[Zach England]

Those are very impressive. I am green with envy.

[george wilson]

Who told you hey were cabinetmaker's floats? They are for getting DOWN into cavities,the way they are made,like perhaps gunsmith inletting. They are too neatly made to be just blacksmith made. I think they were commercially made,and swaged into dies,rather than 1 off blacksmith made tools.

They could be for inletting something other than gun work,but you can see that they are definitely made to reach down into some recess. They will not reach deep enough to smooth the bottoms of mortices,nor would there be a need to smooth such hidden joints.

I have made similarly styled floats for getting into the bottoms of tuning peg recesses on violins. Larger ones could be used for cellos and basses. You do see the bottoms of those recesses.

However,the commercially made(die swaged) appearance of these makes me think that they were made for a more common application,where greater numbers of floats would be sold. A gunsmithing application would have been a more common usage for such floats.

The finer than usual cut teeth is also a puzzle. I wonder if they are not for wood at all,and perhaps for metal. Wood floats usually have coarser teeth,UNLESS they could travel only in short distances in the recess. I made my violin floats with finer teeth due to the shortness of the available stroke length in the small pegheads,but generally,finer teeth are for metal,and the length of these floats is too long to have been made for very short recesses. Brownell's Gunsmithing Supplies sells floats somewhat similar (but not as heavy duty) for inletting actions.

I am also wondering if these were made in some factory for a special application that they had for some products that they were making good numbers of. Factories often made special purpose tools for their own use. Dean,Smith,and Grace,lathe makers even factory made their own eating utensils for their cafeteria(but that was an extreme case,brought on by the great pride the owners had for their very high quality lathes. Their workers also wore DSG starched uniforms).

There is no way of knowing exactly what application such floats might have had,unless they turn up in some old catalog or photograph. But,I do think they were obviously made for reaching into recesses,and,with the finer teeth,they could have been for lead,brass,or some other soft metal use.

Whatever their intended purpose,they are certainly useful tools that can be used for any application that may be found useful for them. An excellent find.

[harry strasil]

As a retired blacksmith, I have to agree with George that they are too crisp and do not show any hammer marks, and are too consistent in their dimensions to have been specially made by even an exceptionally fastidious single smith.
They are nicely made and I hope you enjoy them to the utmost. Fine tools are always a pleasure to add to ones kit.

Respectfully
Jr. Strasil

[george wilson]

What abut an exceptionally fastidious MARRIED smith?:)

[harry strasil]

Single as in a one man shop! LOL

I tried to reply to another post and add some pictures.
What a mess, locked up my puter. I guess I will look elsewhere for a new puter home place. Enjoyed the comradery here tho.

Jr.

[Stewie Simpson]

Who told you hey were cabinetmaker's floats? They are for getting DOWN into cavities,the way they are made,like perhaps gunsmith inletting. They are too neatly made to be just blacksmith made. I think they were commercially made,and swaged into dies,rather than 1 off blacksmith made tools.

They could be for inletting something other than gun work,but you can see that they are definitely made to reach down into some recess. They will not reach deep enough to smooth the bottoms of mortices,nor would there be a need to smooth such hidden joints.

I have made similarly styled floats for getting into the bottoms of tuning peg recesses on violins. Larger ones could be used for cellos and basses. You do see the bottoms of those recesses.

However,the commercially made(die swaged) appearance of these makes me think that they were made for a more common application,where greater numbers of floats would be sold. A gunsmithing application would have been a more common usage for such floats.

The finer than usual cut teeth is also a puzzle. I wonder if they are not for wood at all,and perhaps for metal. Wood floats usually have coarser teeth,UNLESS they could travel only in short distances in the recess. I made my violin floats with finer teeth due to the shortness of the available stroke length in the small pegheads,but generally,finer teeth are for metal,and the length of these floats is too long to have been made for very short recesses. Brownell's Gunsmithing Supplies sells floats somewhat similar (but not as heavy duty) for inletting actions.

I am also wondering if these were made in some factory for a special application that they had for some products that they were making good numbers of. Factories often made special purpose tools for their own use. Dean,Smith,and Grace,lathe makers even factory made their own eating utensils for their cafeteria(but that was an extreme case,brought on by the great pride the owners had for their very high quality lathes. Their workers also wore DSG starched uniforms).

There is no way of knowing exactly what application such floats might have had,unless they turn up in some old catalog or photograph. But,I do think they were obviously made for reaching into recesses,and,with the finer teeth,they could have been for lead,brass,or some other soft metal use.

Whatever their intended purpose,they are certainly useful tools that can be used for any application that may be found useful for them. An excellent find.

Hi George. I am happy to accept that these are not blacksmith made. I have no knowledge in this area.

I must question your thoughts that they could be for Gunsmith Inletting. After I purchased these floats I wanted to clearly identify there intended use. I made contact with some professional dealers in firearms as well as better known Gunsmith's in the U.S. Photo's were also provided. There was general agreement these floats were not suitable for Gun Barrel Inletting due to there flat cutting profile. A more rounded sole is better suited to inletting.

I dont think these floats were made for working on metal; including brass; as the steel on these floats are not nearer high tensile but more like mild steel.

I have trialed these floats while completing final clean up of dado's & rebates and they work very well. The different widths of float would seem purpose made to suit the different sizes of dado width and grooves to be worked.

The cutting teeth have a rip tooth profile and tpi not much differerent to the Planemaker Floats I use on a regular basis. They seem ideally suited for working on wood. Worked with the grain these floats leave a nice smooth finish.

Then again ; I could be wrong.

All input raised within a forum adds value to the debate.

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks for the feedback Harry. Your experience with Blacksmithing adds plenty of value to this post.

Regards;

Stewie.

[george wilson]

I stated several other possibilities as well. The action,and not the round barrel would be the place such floats would be useful. Of course,not all barrels are round. Floats have to be soft enough to be sharpened,but if they are very soft,they must not be for harder metals. At any rate,the fact that they are cranked means that they are for getting down into some kind of recess.

Floats were used for so many things,like horn(cow horn) work(making things out of horn),it's difficult to know exactly what they were for. I even considered use in printing,like in preparing lead advertising blocks,though I have no knowledge of floats being employed there.

Cabinet maker's floats? What kind of recesses need smoothing?

[Dave Bozell]

I apologize for bringing back this thread, but I recently obtained a similar set of floats. Stewie, would you share your sharpening method that you used on these floats? I was told that my floats came from an English patternmaker. I will try to post pictures tonight.

[Stewie Simpson]

Dave; if you follow the same technique as outlined by Larry Williiams you should be okay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJGqDnXVA4c

Stewie;

[Dave Bozell]

356134Here is a picture of my set. Several of them have flat faces, but several others are curved. Has anyone tried chemical sharpening of floats? Two of them are marked "Hosson Houghton" on one side and "Special Alloy" on the other. Google doesn't turn up anything on them. The set came from the UK if that is helpful.

[Ron Bontz]

Does anyone make any thing like that anymore? Seems they would be quite handy.

[george wilson]

No way of telling the exact intended original use of these floats, but fitting gun actions would one one use. However, since they came in many widths, there must have been another use in mind. I have made similar floats myself, for smoothing the bottom of violin peg mortises. Brownell's still offers a dog leg float for gun action use. But, only in one width, if I recall correctly.Pattern making can encompass a myriad of shapes,so they may well have been made for pattern makers. You know,way back when making patterns was more than making box shapes stacked upon other box shapes(at lease on modern metal lathes! No aesthetics at all,any more. They used to make the shapes to fit around the gears inside(like Bridgeport milling machines still do). Now it's all boxes.

[Rob Luter]

I wonder if they were used by a pattern maker to size keyways in patterns for pulleys and gears. Years ago I did business with a pattern maker that had all manner of custom woodworking tools like these. He also had a warehouse full of 8/4 pattern grade mahogany (drool).

[george wilson]

Smoothing out keyways makes sense.

[Stewie Simpson]

Joinery Floats are sized with cabinet making and furniture building in mind. They are capable of extremely precise work.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/nodes/4089/joinery-floats

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/static-file-transform/1277/thumbnail%2Cw_500%2Ch_500%2Cm_a.jpg

https://www.fine-tools.com/carvingfile.html

https://www.qy1.de/img/bildhauerfeile-312943a.jpg
https://www.qy1.de/img/bildhauerfeile-312944a.jpg