Why so many great female turners?

[John Coloccia]

Turning is arguably one of the most physical woodworking disciplines. It's one of the more dangerous as well. Why so many great female turners? In so many other disciplines, the guys usually like the rough and tumble stuff, and the women tend to prefer the more finesse kinds of things, but turning is different.

Just an observation I made checking out YouTube videos. There's practically no women in any other area of woodworking it seems except turning, where there's lots of'em.

Same for the woodturning class I took at the beginning of this year. It was almost half women. Every other class? Approximately 0 women (maybe one? I haven't seen any all year, though).

[Dan Hintz]

So you're saying I would have done better for myself, socially speaking, to attend a woodworking class rather than my engineering classes? Interesting... :p

[George Guadiane]

Well, there are several women here, maybe they'll let us know what the attraction was for them...

[Michael James]

That is a good question. I would assume that part of that is smaller pieces of wood, faster project finisihing time, and a great deal more right hemisphere activity.
And turnings are beautiful...! Im sure they will chime in and correct me.

[Joe Adams]

I'm relatively new to turning but from what I've learned, the best forms require an artistic sense of grace as well as skillful delicacy in tool use.

Perhaps we're all getting in touch with our feminine side. :p

[Fred Perreault]

My goodness guys....... why not?
....and around here on the cape, there is an abundance of fems in the wood working business. Furniture, cabinetry, boat building and restoration.... many of them owning their own business. But if you go to our turning club, only one in almost 50 is a lady turner. go figure.

[John Coloccia]

Ok, can we just stop pretending anyone said that women shouldn't be turners or any other kinds of wood workers? Fact is that I don't know any great women cabinet makers or furniture makers but I can probably name 2 or 3 great women turners off the top of my head, which is about the same number of great male turners I can name too. Now that I'm getting back into turning froma little break, the question struck me as I was watching some videos.

Trap shooting is the same way. I can name great women trap shooters off the top of my head but not even one great female rifle or pistol shooter.

[John Coloccia]

T
And turnings are beautiful...!

LOL. You haven't seen my turnings.

[John Coloccia]

Trap shooting is the same way. I can name great women trap shooters off the top of my head but not even one great female rifle or pistol shooter.

Oh, and I think I know what it is with trap shooting because I've asked all the female shooters at my club, including my wife. "I like the feedback from exploding clay. Shooting a pistol or rifle is boring. Scoring is boring. Cleaning pistols is boring." All the stuff I find relaxing they find boring. They all pretty much say the same thing. When you ask the male trap shooter the same question, they all say "I like the moving target" and don't seem to care whether it actually goes boom or not.

I personally like turning because I'm not very good at it, and I always feel like I'm a hair away from a bad catch at any second. I think if I ever actually get good at it, I won't enjoy it as much anymore, or I'll have to keep upping the ante to get any enjoyment from it. I think my wife likes it because she doesn't have the first clue what she's doing but yet she's better at it than I am (she's got the turning gene apparently).

[Jim Underwood]

I ran into a gal last weekend who said she was always interested in woodworking and turning, but her dad always discouraged her from it saying it was too dangerous for a woman. And then when her dad died and left all his woodworking equipment, she wanted the lathe, but her brothers said it was too dangerous and gave it too her nephew.

So that kinda hacked me off... What bonehead would do that to a woman?

I gave her my card, invited her to the club and told her that women usually make better turners than men because their fine motor skills were better... and that men were all testosterone driven and like to hog the wood off, while women tend to finesse things and let the tool cut....

Now let me be sexist for a moment and also say that I hope she comes to the meetings, because women are more likely to bring cookies...

[George Guadiane]

So that you know, from a man who has been living with "the woman's movement" since what seems like forever, your entire post would be considered sexist... IE women could like "hogging the wood off..."
Having said that, as a concept (in my opinion), you were doing fine with your attempt till you got to those cookies...:rolleyes: Bake your own!;) (my SWMBO made me say that)

My wife ran into the same kind of thing with her family. She won't get on the lathe because we're BOTH concerned that she'll make me look bad (and she probably would, in short order).


I ran into a gal last weekend who said she was always interested in woodworking and turning, but her dad always discouraged her from it saying it was too dangerous for a woman. And then when her dad died and left all his woodworking equipment, she wanted the lathe, but her brothers said it was too dangerous and gave it too her nephew.

So that kinda hacked me off... What bonehead would do that to a woman?

I gave her my card, invited her to the club and told her that women usually make better turners than men because their fine motor skills were better... and that men were all testosterone driven and like to hog the wood off, while women tend to finesse things and let the tool cut....

Now let me be sexist for a moment and also say that I hope she comes to the meetings, because women are more likely to bring cookies...

[Jim Underwood]

LOL!
Funny that she should tell me to bake my own...

I'm the one who makes cinnamon rolls, breakfast muffins, oatmeal cookies, divinity, and pecan pies at my house... And my wife is more likely to turn on the football game than I am. Way more likely. I don't get the whole "chasing a ball around the field" thing. (Isn't that what dogs do?:p) Yeah. Something a bit defective in my man genes I'd say. But you won't find my wife within 20 feet of my shop.
She has no interest in crafts whatsoever, and hates to cook. But I'll stay out in the shop till the wee hours of the morning...

Yep. Some women would probably like hogging the wood off, but women having better fine motor skill is just a fact of life... There is a real difference y'know. There is a difference. As Temple Gandin would say, "Not less, just different."

[John Coloccia]

Every now and then I bake cookies for my wife. I usually make gingerbread. I don't have a recipe. I combine random things together until I get a brownish kind of goo, and then I bake them. She doesn't ask me to bake cookies very often...never, actually. She did ask me once early on, and that got it out of her system, but I do it anyway every so often just to keep it out of her system.

I do make a mean bananas Foster, though.

[George Guadiane]

I'm going to start baking again myself! My wife has taken much too good care of me for a long time. She quit eating sugar a while ago, and continues to feed my sweet tooth. She made a "comment" while I was eating chocolate chips last night, I think I'll have to make my own, at least for a while... Besides, it really is fun!

LOL!
Funny that she should tell me to bake my own...

I'm the one who makes cinnamon rolls, breakfast muffins, oatmeal cookies, divinity, and pecan pies at my house...

My specialty is Peanut Butter Cookies (I like crispy).

[David DeCristoforo]

Why would you feel like there are "so many"? There are only a few women posting on this forum and outside of Bonnie Klein and Cindy Drozda I can hardly think of any other "famous" female turners. So a better question might be "Why so few?" There may be more women posting on YouTube but if you "google" for turners, 95 percent of the hits are guys. So maybe we need way more women turners. When I went to a turners group meeting in Sac a few months back there were no women there at all. Furthermore, FWIW, I find turning much less physically demanding than building houses full of casework!

[Roger Chandler]

Well, for my $.02. I think women for the most part are so gifted by God in so many ways. They have creativity that naturally flows from their mind. Their creative side allows them to envision things most guys can only grasp after they have seen it. I know that my own wife, has refinement and development in ways that I stand almost in awe of. She has creative and organizational abilities that naturally flow, while I have to work at it! My creativity is not bad for a guy, but a lot of women just seem to have a gift in these areas.

Men have their strengths as well, and that should never be minimized, but I for one truly appreciate the grace and beauty of a woman's strength and contributions to all fields, including wood turning. I think the ladies that have impacted wood turning have made a mark with design and have set the bar higher for the rest of us. For the most part, the women I believe are much more patient at getting a piece done. I want to get in, get it started and get in done in short order, because I have so much on my plate most of the time..........a lot of ladies take their time, enjoy the process and come up with great results with more grace and finesse than I bring to a project.

I would gladly take instruction from a female turner who is more advanced than I, and would show her the respect and appreciation for her achievements in the craft of woodturning! I hope more ladies get into the craft! Our local club is gaining new female members with regularity, and some are very accomplished and have articles they have turned in local galleries, and we have professional and non professional women who are enjoying this craft.

I also think that the labor intensive side of cutting wood, and the hazards of sharp tools does have its intimidation factor to some women......and they would be served well to have the guys in their life cut the wood and get it to their turning areas for them, and they can do fine at the lathe itself.

[Russell Johnson]

Jim,

I agree with you on the motor skills. When I was taking flying lessons in as a teenager my instructor told me that women make better pilots. They are less aggressive with the yoke and better making fine adjustments. I think that may also by why so many women seem to enjoy scroll sawing.

[Wally Dickerman]

Some time ago I had a young lady in one of my beginning bowl turning classes. She had never done any woodworking at all. She said that she had 4 brothers and they all took highschool woodshop. She wanted to do the same but her father said she was his little girl and shop was for boys.

She was a "natural" and her first ever bowl was a very nice ogee shape. She said that she was going to send it to her father and say "Dad, see what your little girl can do?"

Over the years I would guess that perhaps 10% of my students have been women.

I live in a large retirement community. We have a great woodshop where a few women do turning and other kinds of woodworking. Our pottery shop however has more women than men doing pots.

Wally

[Barbara Gill]

This is an interesting thread. I started with flat woodworking and then went to round. I started a sawmill business before either happened. I have never thought of woodturning as being any more dangerous than flat woodworking. In fact just the opposite. Woodturning does not require a great deal of strength except when you need to lift a 80# blank up on the lathe. The tool work certainly does not require a great deal of strength.
I was attracted to woodturning because of the combination of using really beautiful wood and great shapes. I am of the opinion that wood can be displayed to it's best when turned.

[Ron Bontz]

I would have to agree with Barbara on some of this one. Turning is the least physical thing I do in WW. Let's face it. The female perspective, keen eye for design, and fine touch all contribute. I am just wondering if the proven better ability to multi task has anything to do with it? As far as danger.. when I was young long hair was in. So we all had to wear hair nets with our hair pulled back to use the lathe. If all this makes any sense.

[Curt Fuller]

I really can't think of anything that a woman can't do as well or better than a man. Maybe it's because of their strength limitations (or maybe not) but the women I know well in my life have a much more measured approach to things that I might think requires strength. If you can't just get a bigger hammer, a bigger gouge, more horsepower, or any of the more common male solutions to things (myself included), maybe you just find a smarter way to do it. My daughter has only spent a few hours on my lathe, but when she wanted to turn some crochet hooks because she liked the idea of some nice spindle work on them I broke several and struggled to keep from snapping off the long skinny needles when I tried to show her how to do it. I don't think she's ever broken a single one in the dozens she's made since that short lesson. I've often thought that if she ever got serious about turning wood I'd just have to turn my stuff over to her. I definitely couldn't compete with her.

[Rick Markham]

. Our pottery shop however has more women than men doing pots.

Wally

My best friend's dad growing up was a professional potter, I have on more than one occasion tried to "throw a pot" and I can assure it is plenty physically demanding, very hard on the hands and forearms, and it certainly isn't any "cleaner" of an art. I think to some degree society's gender roles (past and present) play a part in any arts' or hobbys' demographics. It is also probably a product of what we are exposed to. You can't very well want to be a woodturner if you aren't ever exposed to it. Less and less young people are exposed to woodworking and woodturning.

I'm not sure there is magical answer to any of this, what draws any of us to this. I bet for every 1000 woodturners you will get at least 2000 different answers. I think like any art the differences between the sexes, cultures, etc all brings different things to the table. The LOML grew up with her dad doing woodwork, and she has become exceptionally interested in turning, and is anxious to get to try. I'm excited to have someone to learn with. I am excited to see what creativity she will bring to this art form.

[Don Alexander]

gender doesn't have anything at all to do with ability or skill , that notion is purely stereotypical nonsense the fact is that people (both genders included) have differing talents/abilities that reflect personality type and interest rather than gender unfortunately there is still alot of stereotyping that apparently is deeply rooted , albeit in misconception, that tends to try to funnel people into a box because " thats not manly" or "thats guys work" or some other equally inane drivel

i would bet that in reality the tendency to group people into gender category when it comes to ability, skill and pure raw talent is mostly on the order of "boy will i look silly if she is better at that than i am" or "i am really going to look silly if the guys see me doing that"
i think that its awesome when men and women both have the attitude that "its great he/she is doing what they enjoy doing" or are really good at
and dispense with the rediculous insecurity focus on the positives and dispense with the negatives life will be so much less stressful and a whole lot more enjoyable for all

[Ryan Baker]

Turning is arguably one of the most physical woodworking disciplines. It's one of the more dangerous as well.

Actually, I disagree with both of those statements.

As far as I am concerned, we need to have a lot more women get involved in all aspects of woodworking. It does seem that there are more women turners than flatworkers though.

[Dan Hintz]

gender doesn't have anything at all to do with ability or skill , that notion is purely stereotypical nonsense
I'll disagree with this to some degree. Plenty of studies have shown that men have (on average, there are always exceptions) a much higher spatial awareness and spatial-temporal reasoning ability than women. We discussed this quite a bit in drafting courses where men outnumbered women 10:1. Men had the ability to view an object in 3D in their mind when only given a few 2D drawings of the object (exactly what drafting usually provides, so men can create an orthographic view more readily). Men were also able to more readily judge distances versus time, so creating items like conveyor systems came more naturally to them.

That's not to say that women got the short end of the stick. In turn, women are more readily able to do something that completely escapes me at the moment... maybe it was pure mathematical calculation. If I remember, I'll edit or repost.

[Carol Kinney]

I’ve always been attracted to woodworking of all kinds. When I was young I wasn’t allowed to take “shop class” that I so dearly looked forward to attending. No, it was “home economic” for the women and shop was only for the boys. This changed after I graduated from HS and was off to college, too busy to think about wood (except when I had to make a table or two). Instead of being a turner as a career I ended up an engineer. Now that I’m retired I can start a new career. Which brings up, more women might be starting to find woodturning because they’re finally being allowed to be exposed to it. The only part of turning I find physical is chopping up all the wood and as Barbara said the tool work certainly isn’t physical.
I have a great deal of patience so I think that helps me in woodturning a lot. Art has always been part of my life and it’s the reason I decided to start woodturning – I just love the look and feel of a nicely turned piece.

[John Coloccia]

re: physical and dangerous
By physical I meant just the raw grabbing the tool and digging into the wood, with shavings flying around all over the place, not necessarily having anything at all to do with strength. It's just a very physical activity, involving moving your whole body combined with fine motor control, as compared to pushing something through a table saw for example. The dangerous part is just because of the unpredictability of the wood, and really a reliance on skill to keep it safe as opposed to blade guards, push sticks, etc. A dumb move involving relatively minor errors can and does cause interesting things to happen. The only time I wear a full face shield is when I'm turning, and it's taken at least a couple of solid hits this year. That's all I meant.

By the responses, I guess my perception of the situation is wrong. I'm just going from what I see, and my personal experience with my own wife even. She has absolutely zero interest in any kind of woodworking whatsoever except for turning.

[Jenn Hill]

I grew up with wonderful parents who would support me with any endeavor. My Dad spent lots of time in the garage. I grew up loving the smell of sawdust. However, when I got to high school I did not have the nerve to enroll in wood shop or auto shop because there were no other girls taking it. I did not want the extra attention of being the only girl. If I had it to do over again I would love being in a class full of guys! I am by no means a "great" turner but I really enjoy it. I enjoy creating things with curves and interesting lines. I am not too interested in flatwork. It just does not call me. Turning just interests me. I fell into the vortex. I now have 1/3 of the garage filled with tools and machines and my favorite stores are hardware stores and woodworking specialty stores. I don't think turning is any less or more physically demanding than flatwork. One thing I've learned over the years is that there is always a smarter way to do something if you are limited with physical ability. With turning you can start out with a small lathe and tools and gradually increase in size as your skill level increases. you can buy small pieces of wood that you do not need to cut. This may be the appeal to a beginner. With flatwork I think there is an intimidation factor because regardless of what you make you still would want to use a table saw or other cutting machines.
Jenn

[Michael James]

I’ve always been attracted to woodworking of all kinds. When I was young I wasn’t allowed to take “shop class” that I so dearly looked forward to attending. No, it was “home economic” for the women and shop was only for the boys. This changed after I graduated from HS and was off to college, too busy to think about wood (except when I had to make a table or two). Instead of being a turner as a career I ended up an engineer. Now that I’m retired I can start a new career. Which brings up, more women might be starting to find woodturning because they’re finally being allowed to be exposed to it. The only part of turning I find physical is chopping up all the wood and as Barbara said the tool work certainly isn’t physical.
I have a great deal of patience so I think that helps me in woodturning a lot. Art has always been part of my life and it’s the reason I decided to start woodturning – I just love the look and feel of a nicely turned piece.

Carol, good for you and Welcome from NM! I see that is your 1st post.
mj

[Dan Hintz]

In my last post I mentioned some things men are better at, but couldn't remember what the women were better at... I vaguely recall language skills being one of those things.

There's also a vague memory rolling around in my head about differences in perception/understanding of 3D surfaces between children who grow up in cities/suburbia versus the "jungle"... I'll have to dig deep to find that study again. It had a surprising effect on IQ scores based upon visual patterns and such, which totally blew away a number of preconceptions about how our brains handled stimuli (everyone previously thought we were hard-coded to handle certain depth perception scenarios).

[Jim Underwood]

gender doesn't have anything at all to do with ability or skill , that notion is purely stereotypical nonsense the fact is that people (both genders included)


While I agree that a lot of this can be stereotypical nonsense, I cannot agree with your absolute statement. I happen to think that women are fundamentally different than men, and the difference in biology has to make a difference in certain skills and ability.

That being said, desire trumps almost any limitation, and more power to the person who wants to turn wood, regardless of their sex. Go for it!

[Roland Martin]

I've been a flat worker all of my working life, custom kitchens, libraries, architectural woodwork, etc.,etc., and just started turning a year ago. I've done many projects alone when I had no employees, and as Jenn put it, you certainly have to find "smarter" ways of doing things, and I did. Obviously, it makes it easier, safer & faster with other workers in the shop, but then you start losing all of the "smart" skills you tought yourself when you needed to. Sometimes I come home and wonder, "how in hell did my wife do that by herself?" Rather simple, she's "smart" like I used to be:D.
IMHO, I do think the flat work is more strenuous than turning overall, mostly because what you build needs to be installed, which means all of the plywood, solid wood, hardware, etc., that the casework was built with is now all part of one piece that needs to be handled several times. I personally know a couple of women in Maine that are exceptional woodworkers, own their own woodworking businesses, and are able to do "at the least" anything I can do. Not all females can do it, nor can all males do it, to me, it's as simple as that.
In woodturning, to me it's kinda fun agressively plunging the gouge into a fresh piece of lumber to get most of that wood out'a the middle, but is that necessary? I would think not, therefore, is there any reason a woman, given she wants to, can't turn as well or better than a man? I would think not:).

[Dennis Simmons]

[QUOTE=Jim Underwood;1586766]LOL!
Funny that she should tell me to bake my own...

I'm the one who makes cinnamon rolls, breakfast muffins, oatmeal cookies, divinity, and pecan pies at my house... And my wife is more likely to turn on the football game than I am. Way more likely. I don't get the whole "chasing a ball around the field" thing. (Isn't that what dogs do?:p) Yeah. Something a bit defective in my man genes I'd say. But you won't find my wife within 20 feet of my shop.
She has no interest in crafts whatsoever, and hates to cook. But I'll stay out in the shop till the wee hours of the morning...



I notice that 98% of the items posted that all of you bake, are round. I bake round food also, Blueberry muffins, sweet corn bread muffins! Round Must be a turners choice of food.

[John Coloccia]

I would think not, therefore, is there any reason a woman, given she wants to, can't turn as well or better than a man? I would think not:).

Again, just so this doesn't get derailed, no one said or implied that women shouldn't be great turners. The original question is why so many great turners given the lack of great furniture makers, for example. I don't mean to pick on you but you're answer kind of implies an answer to a question or statement no one made, and that will derail the thread.

[John Coloccia]

[QUOTE=Jim Underwood;1586766]
I notice that 98% of the items posted that all of you bake, are round. I bake round food also, Blueberry muffins, sweet corn bread muffins! Round Must be a turners choice of food.

Getting it to stay in the chuck is the hard part.

[Roland Martin]

My apologies, John. Derailing your thread is the furthest from my intentions:eek:. Why so many great female turners? I would think that turning, for the most part, is easier on the body than most other forms of woodworking. Woodturning has also become a means of self-expression and art, which would draw the interest of male and females alike.

Again John, my apologies!:)

[John Coloccia]

My apologies, John. Derailing your thread is the furthest from my intentions:eek:. Why so many great female turners? I would think that turning, for the most part, is easier on the body than most other forms of woodworking. Woodturning has also become a means of self-expression and art, which would draw the interest of male and females alike.

Again John, my apologies!:)

I didn't think you were doing anything wrong, Roland. I just wanted everyone who jumps in mid thread to not get the wrong idea. It obviously didn't come out right! LOL

[John Coloccia]

I think I'm started to develop my own theory. Maybe there are generally just more competent turners in general than there are furniture makers, for example as a percentage of total. The most expensive lathe you can reasonably buy is about 6,000, and by the time you're done with chucks and tools, you've still probably spent well less than $10,000 for total, professional, top of the line equipment. You can get in for well under $2000 with a very nice setup, and well under $1000 will get you a very competent "hobby" setup....and that's buying everything new.

$10,000 will get you a basic furniture shop.....real basic, and it won't be high end tools, either. The wood for a finished piece is MUCH more expensive. There are many different skills must be learned in order to finish even a basic piece. In turning, you can make a pen, and sell it, knowing nothing more that how to rough with a roughing gouge. It takes days, if not weeks, to make a finished chair or cabinet. Your first lathe item probably took and hour, start to finish, if that.

I'm starting to see that maybe it's just generally far less demanding on time, tools and expense to really become a competent turner. There are lots of flatworkers that never get beyond slap a couple of 2X4's together stage because the expense and knowledge to go beyond that might be out of reach, but a very simple turning setup can produce pro-level work with nothing but a bit of practice and determination.

So maybe it's like drawing as opposed to painting. There are far more competent drawers than there are painters. I can only presume that the added expense and inconvenience of painting is the reason.

[Carol Kinney]

My apologies, John. Derailing your thread is the furthest from my intentions:eek:. Why so many great female turners? I would think that turning, for the most part, is easier on the body than most other forms of woodworking. Woodturning has also become a means of self-expression and art, which would draw the interest of male and females alike.

Again John, my apologies!:)


I agree with your statement Roland 100%. It's becoming much more "Art" that alone will attract more women. It was one of the reasons I had the opportunity to get exposed to turning – the first time I touched a lathe was in a class at an art museum. When you get that kind of exposure at a place like that you’re going to expose a lot of women to turning.
BTW - Thank you Michael from Florida :)

[Roland Martin]

Thanks Carol and welcome to the Creek. If you care to, at some point, we would love to see some of your turnings. Hope you chime in often, it's a great place to learn and great people here.
I would have never thought that an art museum would hold such classes, what a great idea.