Woodslicer or Timberwolf?

[Bill Arnold]

Yes, I read the review in April FWW. Now I just want feedback from the real world. I do a fair amount of resawing and will be doing more.

Based on input from other woodworkers, I purchased a Timberwolf 3/4", 3AS-S blade when I got my Grizzly G0513 back in August. I would qualify it as "OK", but not outstanding. It plows through 10-12" stock pretty well, but the result is rougher than I had hoped.

I've heard some good reports on the 1/2" Woodslicer along with the great review in FWW. So, what's the opinion of this esteemed panel?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Scott Coffelt]

I have the general feelings you do, eventually I was thinking of jumping to the lenox carbide. I hear you won't be disappointed.

[Steven Wilson]

Lennox Trimaster carbide in whatever width your saw can tension; probably 1/2" for you.

[Richard Ferment]

I have used both, they both cut nicely however IMHO the woodslicer leaves a smoother finish. :)

[Jim Becker]

Lennox Trimaster carbide in whatever width your saw can tension; probably 1/2" for you.
Agree...over time it will actually cost less, too.

[Bill Arnold]

Lennox Trimaster carbide in whatever width your saw can tension; probably 1/2" for you.
The G0513 can handle up to a 1" blade. Why do you say it can tension probably a 1/2" Lenox? Does it require an extreme amount of tension?

Thanks.

[Norman Hitt]

The G0513 can handle up to a 1" blade. Why do you say it can tension probably a 1/2" Lenox? Does it require an extreme amount of tension?

Thanks.
Compared to a Timberwolf, YES. The Timberwolfs are low tension blades but although you can run a Trimaster somewhat below it's Max recommended tension for some applic ations, the Max it's recommended is about 30,000 PSI, which would probably be too much for your saw, even if the spring would do it.

Lenox has come out with a New 1" blade using a new metal blend that is supposed to be just as strong but thinner, and not as susceptable to work hardening and premature breakage on smaller diameter wheels. The recommended minimum wheel size for the "Original metal blend" 1" trimaster was 24". They did seem to work ok on the 20" saws, but some reported blades breaking after about 10 months of regular use on the 16" saws. A 1/2" Trimaster is not as thick and should work well on your saw, but you might have to get a beefier spring from Iturra to tension it, I'm just not sure, as I don't remember the recommended tension for the 1/2" blade.

Hope this helps.

[Bill Arnold]

Thanks to all of you for your comments so far. Although I've got a fair amount of experience in woodworking, I'm starting to use the bandsaw a lot more and am still going through the learning curve.


... although you can run a Trimaster somewhat below it's Max recommended tension for some applic ations, the Max it's recommended is about 30,000 PSI ...
Norman,

Thanks for the additional detail. I'll check with Grizzly on the tension ratings for the G0513. I've been tensioning my blades using the 'flutter' method. I take it from your comments about tensioning the Trimaster that I should plan on purchasing a tension guage.

Regards,

[Bill White]

I use the Woodslicer on my Magna (Shopsmith) 11". Now we'renot talking about a powerhouse bandsaw here, but the 1/2" Woodslicer works like a champ on it. I cut some 5" OLD white oak for a tabletop with good results. I like the blade, and use it for lots of straight line work as well as that not requiring sharp turns.

[Carole Valentine]

Having used both, I will by the Woodslicer from now on.

[thomas prevost]

What is the experience with carbide blades loosing teeth with sawing hard knots or hitting metal? Years ago we tried them in a resaw mill, but after about 1 week about 10% of the teeth were missing. Has time improved the technology?

[Bill Arnold]

Having used both, I will by the Woodslicer from now on.
Thanks, Carole. I'm getting similar responses on another forum as well. The $30 price tag is in the right ballpark for me at this point. I can't justify the $150 a Lenox carbide would cost.

Regards,

[Bill Arnold]

I have used both, they both cut nicely however IMHO the woodslicer leaves a smoother finish. :)
Richard,

The smoother finish is what I'm looking for in order to save material and money. Many of the items I have on the drawing board involve veneer panels, etc., so I want to get the most mileage I can from the material.

Regards,

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Carole. I'm getting similar responses on another forum as well. The $30 price tag is in the right ballpark for me at this point. I can't justify the $150 a Lenox carbide would cost.
Something to consider for the "next time", Bill, is that while the Lennox costs $150, it also will last for years with proper care. It's not a "disposable" blade like all the others--their life is measured in minutes, hours and days, not years. It also leaves a very smooth surface...something you say is one of your goals...almost table saw quality. None of the other blades can even come close to that. Although the kerf is a little wider that traditional blades resulting in material wastage, you save time with less processing necessary after making the cut. It's all about trade-offs!

Frankly, when I use up my supply of Timberwolf 1/2" blades, I'll be putting a 1/2" Lennox on my MM16 to be used as the "everyday" blade. I'll still use TW 1/2" AS formula blades for cutting wet wood for turning blanks as the carbide tipped cutters are not recommended for that use, but for all other activity...

[Steven Wilson]

The G0513 can handle up to a 1" blade. Why do you say it can tension probably a 1/2" Lenox? Does it require an extreme amount of tension?

The tension your saw can supply is roughly a function of the beam strength of the machine, the spring, width of the blade, and the blades thickness. The Lennox carbide tipped blade is a bit thicker than the Woodslicer, Timberwolf, Olsen, and regular Lennox blades and requires a fairly stout machine to tension. The 1" carbide Lennox band runs best on 24" machines (some 20"), your wheels are 17". Your machine is still a fairly light weight bandsaw and although it can probably tension a 1" wide regular blade, it would probably strain a bit with the 1" Lennox carbide. Droping down to the 1/2" blade will give you 9/10 of the benefit of the 1" blade but will be much easier for your machine to tension properly. You will be giving up some blade beam strength but slowing down your feed rate should still give you a very decent resaw. My 20" Minimax is fairly maxed out when tensioning a 1" Lennox Trimaster carbide (could use a bit beefier spring) and is really the minimum size machine (strength and wheel size) for this blade. BTW, another option to consider are the bimetal Lennox blades - sort of inbetween the carbide and the regular Timberwolf/Olsen/Woodslicer blades.

[Bill Arnold]

Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread. I'm waiting for a response from Grizzly regarding the maximum tension capability for the G0513. I'm not going to try to run a 1" blade for resaw -- probably a 1/2" based on other information I've gathered. Also, I might hold out a little longer and go ahead and spring for the Lenox blade since it's got an almost unanimous vote.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

I have a Lenox 1" 3 tpi carbide blade on my big 20" Delta rockwell saw and I'll never go back! The timberwolf blades I used to use just seem to get dull too quickly. My feeling is that the carbide blades are a bargain in the long run, like carbide TS blades are compared with HSS. I hope that they become popular enough to be mass produced like carbide TS blades so the prices come down!

I am in the process of fixing up my barn which involves a bit of timberframing to replace some beams and posts. Most of the cutting is on timbers that weigh about 1000 lbs, so obviously cannot be done on the BS. However, We had to cut a couple "brackets" that will go at the top of a post under a new beam. The beam and post are 12 1/2" x 8 1/2" white oak.

The bracket was cut from this same stock- it tapers from 10" down to 6" and is 8 1/2" thick. With the help of a couple guys, I cut these tapers on the big band saw. The chunks we were cutting weighed probably 100lb, so it was feasable to do on the BS. Extremely good results- the blade never wandered or got hot. This is green oak, too. A few licks with a smoothing plane cleaned up the cut faces nicely.

I also have been fabricating bunches of oak wedges- mostly 1 1/4" or 2" thick and 6" wide. I resaw them with a tape jig. I can push these through the blade about as fast as I want and the saw never complains. Just outstanding performance. Of course, it has a honkin' 3hp motor...

I have not observed any missing teeth yet. (in the blade, or in my mouth)

One thing I read somewhere- on your resaw blade, never cut a curve with it! If you need to cut curves, put on a different blade. This may be superstition, but I read that it will make the blade less able to track a straight line.

[Dee Dee Martin]

I've been running the Lenox 1" carbide on my Minimax 24" for about a year now, on and off. I had some resawing to do, so I also bought a Woodslicer. The woodslicer is too thin. Won't run straight in thick resawing. Due to its thinness, you can't put enuf tension on it.

The Trimaster gets my vote.

Yesterday I finally got my Iturra tension meter. Cranked up my tension to 25,000 psi, and I could tell right away that I've never run it this tight before. The scale on my saw was much higher than where I ran it in th past.

Couldn't wait to see how straight it cut, now.
Fired it up.
Ran true as a whistle.
Not a bit of vibration.
Looked around for a tall piece of maple.
WHAM!
Blade broke.

Really ticks me off. And now I don't know what to do. The only thing I can guess is that due to being over a year old, with a fair amount of use, the blade was week. You got me. Damn, it looked nice running at 25000psi.

[Mark Singer]

Jim,
You are right on!
The set on the Trimaster is less then a timberwolf...so it saves wood even thought the kerf is greater. You are correct about the value , probably at least 20 or 30 to 1....making it a bargan. It tracks straight...no waste from leads or curves. I run mine between 20,000 and 25,000 psi...beautiful surface!


Something to consider for the "next time", Bill, is that while the Lennox costs $150, it also will last for years with proper care. It's not a "disposable" blade like all the others--their life is measured in minutes, hours and days, not years. It also leaves a very smooth surface...something you say is one of your goals...almost table saw quality. None of the other blades can even come close to that. Although the kerf is a little wider that traditional blades resulting in material wastage, you save time with less processing necessary after making the cut. It's all about trade-offs!

Frankly, when I use up my supply of Timberwolf 1/2" blades, I'll be putting a 1/2" Lennox on my MM16 to be used as the "everyday" blade. I'll still use TW 1/2" AS formula blades for cutting wet wood for turning blanks as the carbide tipped cutters are not recommended for that use, but for all other activity...

[Brian Riley]

Well....

I have the latest model of the MM16 and have been battling back and forth as to what blade to get. I talked to Louis at Ittura and thought I had decided on the 1" Trimaster 3/4 Vari-Tooth TPI but he wasn't too sure if I would be able to get the required tension needed. So I had the intension of getting a stiffer spring and tension gauge. However spending $360 for the setup seemed a bit steep considering not knowing what the future holds for projects (I'm just a weekend woodworker). At present I need to resaw some 6" x 4/4 kiln dried spanish cedar into 1/4" stock. I played around yesterday with the 1" blade that shipped with the saw. It cut fine and straight however due to the tooth offset the kerf was a bit wide not to mention the resaw marks it left. When all was done and said, after the final milling, I was only able to get 2 of the 1/4" boards from each 4/4 stock. I would love to get 3 boards out of each 4/4 stock and was hoping to do this by using a blade that would require very little "clean up" milling.

Given the saw I have and the current project at hand, what would be the best way to go in regards to a blade? Should I just bite the bullet and get the Trimaster / stiffer spring or is there a blade out there that would work on the MM16 as it sits and still give a smoother finish with the cut? Or am I only smoking a pipe dream trying to get (3) 1/4" boards from a 4/4 piece of stock?


Any and all input is greatly appreciated,

Brian

[Mark Singer]

Brian,If it is surfaced 4/4 it is impossible! If it is rough 4/4 ....+or - 1" it is barely possible. After surfacing both sides....you would probably be under 1/4

[Jim Becker]

Brian, they'd have to pry my Trimaster out of my cold, dead hands...and I have the older version of the MM16 with the 12" resaw hight...no question, it's the best resawing blade I've ever encountered. When I use up the Timberwolf 1/2" blades I have in "inventory", I'll be picking up a 1/2" Trimaster for utility use other than wet wood where I'll continue to use the 1/2" Timberwolf AS which was designed for that purpose.

[Mike Holbrook]

Wish I had known you were looking Bill, I waw at Highland Hardware for their one day sale and demos Saturday. I could have gotten you a discounted Woodslicer. I did see one put on an ancient Delta 14", quickly tunned up without instruments of any kind. It cut some very nice boards that got turned into a nice cabinet before my eyes. Some guy came in with a beautiful wide piece of ebony. Chris (from Highland) tossed it on the saw and sliced two nice boards out of it.

I have not used mine yet as I am still trying to get my discounted Fastrack fence mounted on my Inca band saw. For some reason parts have suddenly become available for my old saw. With the new fence, cool blocks and a Woodslicer I am hoping the old girl will be ripping up a storm here soon. I will post again when I get her running. I picked one up for my buddy to use on the Powermatic 14" he just ordered so I should be able to make two reports.

[Dee Dee Martin]

I tried both the woodslicer and the trimaster. the woodslicer moves to much for me. I needed to cut some 1/8" veneer like boards, and due to it's thin-ness, the woodslicer wouldn't give me true results.

I used the trimaster, until yesterday, when I broke it.

Re-ordering today....

By the way, I used my Trimaster to cut lots of wet wood, too. Leaves an awsome finish, though it's not as easy to cut with it as it is with a Lennox hook tooth 3/4" aggressive blade which is designed for green wood.

Upon my calculations, my Trimaster left a kerf of .1

[Jim Becker]

Derik, the TriMaster really isn't designed to cut wet wood, although I understand from your postings on the MM forum why you are using it. The 1" blade really isn't good for cutting curves, too... ;)

[Brian Riley]

Mark...

The stock arrived being faced on both sides yet it does measure out to be right about 13/16" before I do anything to it. Therefore I was hoping to be able to run two cuts each with a kerf size of 1/16" with a blade that would leave a fairly clean cut. That way each piece would be approx. 1/4" thick. These 1/4" pieces of stock I'm cutting don't have to be an exact 1/4" and if the cut is smooth enough just some light sanding is all that would be required. I'm making some stand alone trays so again the size doesn't need to be exact. What is the standard kerf size on the Trimaster? From what I can tell it's right about 1/16"


Jim...

We have spoken before in regards to the MM16. Which Trimaster blade do you currently have (tpi, width, kerf, variable, etc.)? And I'm assuming you use it strickly for resawing at this point? Do you have any issues with the saw being able to tension it properly? Going by the Lenox website it appears that the 3/4 variable tooth comes in a 3/8" x .032 then jumps up to the 1" x .035


Thanks again for all the input / help,

Brian

[Jim Becker]

Brian, I only use it for resawing. I have the 1" variable tooth and tension (using the Iturra gage) to about 25K PSI, although I can get it to 30K PSI. (I don't find that necessary to get great cuts) Mine is the "old" formula, however, so I do expect shorter life with the small, 16" saw than with the new fomula shipping now.

[Mark Singer]

Brian,

I will try my Trimaster and a piece of 4/4 and give you the finished thickness. Mine cuts unbelivably smooth and straight with the Trimaster.

[lou sansone]

well it sure looks like most of you like the lenox.. I have not tried it, but have tried other brands of blades and found that the Timberwolf 3/4", 3AS-S gives me great results on all types of wood.

[Mark Singer]

Brian.

I ran a piece of 13/16 poplar through the Agg. with the Trimaster. In the rough you can end up around .23" for 3 equal. After planning you are in the 3/16" range. The kerf isless than a 16 Th of an inch. A 16 th is .0625 the kerf is about .055 sawn. Which is probably better than a skip or raker 4 tpi with the typical set.


Mark...

The stock arrived being faced on both sides yet it does measure out to be right about 13/16" before I do anything to it. Therefore I was hoping to be able to run two cuts each with a kerf size of 1/16" with a blade that would leave a fairly clean cut. That way each piece would be approx. 1/4" thick. These 1/4" pieces of stock I'm cutting don't have to be an exact 1/4" and if the cut is smooth enough just some light sanding is all that would be required. I'm making some stand alone trays so again the size doesn't need to be exact. What is the standard kerf size on the Trimaster? From what I can tell it's right about 1/16"


Jim...

We have spoken before in regards to the MM16. Which Trimaster blade do you currently have (tpi, width, kerf, variable, etc.)? And I'm assuming you use it strickly for resawing at this point? Do you have any issues with the saw being able to tension it properly? Going by the Lenox website it appears that the 3/4 variable tooth comes in a 3/8" x .032 then jumps up to the 1" x .035


Thanks again for all the input / help,

Brian

[Brian Riley]

Hey Mark...

Thanks much for putting in the time to do that. I greatly appreciate it. Which Trimaster are you using? I called Ittura again today but Louis wasn't available to talk. From what he had said before the 3/4 vari-tooth would give a smoother cut but those are special order from Lenox. I was curious how that would compare to say a 2/3 variable or even the standard 3 tpi. At this point I don't know what he has in stock but that really doesn't matter. I'd rather get the right blade even if that means waiting a bit.

Below is the chart I pulled from the Lenox website with the different Trimaster blade specs.


Thanks again,
Brian

[Mark Singer]

Brian,

It is a 1" variable pitch....carbide.