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Josh Richard
12-15-2010, 8:49 AM
After having a discussion with some students about careers, one of them asked how much someone can earn running or as an employee at a laser engraving business.

In your line of work, what are average salaries?

If you would prefer, please send this info to me as a PM, I will not spread this information other as general info in my classroom.

Thanks
Josh

Dee Gallo
12-15-2010, 9:05 AM
Josh, there was a thread a while back surveying people for $$ made, hours spent and so on. I wish I could tell you the thread name, but look around for it. Maybe someone else remembers it. But the bottom line is that this forum has a lot of different level operators, from single person hobby to multi-employee large business. So your question could be an entire day's discussion.

There have also been a lot of different threads regarding "average" pricing. This is another area which varies from location to location and based on market conditions, also based on whether there is a storefront or website or mall kiosk or niche market or seasonal and/or tourist trade or whatever. There are too many factors to say there is an average wage for this work.

This would be a good research project for your students.

cheers, dee

Scott Shepherd
12-15-2010, 9:25 AM
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148006-Survey-Results&highlight=

is the post Dee is talking about (1 of them).

Martin Boekers
12-15-2010, 10:20 AM
After having a discussion with some students about careers, one of them asked how much someone can earn running or as an employee at a laser engraving business.

In your line of work, what are average salaries?

If you would prefer, please send this info to me as a PM, I will not spread this information other as general info in my classroom.

Thanks
Josh


Josh, a better question would be "How much does it cost us to be laser engravers?":D


On a more serious note, that really is a hard question to qualify. Being in this industry is
more entrepreneurial than an individual hire. Although some of us and/or larger awards shops do hire. The technical and trade skills are quite a bit different than the old days
of hand engraving.

As with any occupation there are skill sets, work ethics, reasoning skills etc that can
make the difference between earning minimum wage and a reasonable salary. This industry requires a great business sense, creativity, positive attitude and to provide
service 2nd to none just to survive. That being said there are rewards that aren't just financial that can be achieved.

One question that I see often with youth is how much does it pay or how much can I make. I prefer to see the questions what do I need to do to excell in this industry?
What skill sets are required? What are the opportunities for advancement.

I see many youths turn down a position because they aren't offered tons of money and benefits, yet more often than not don't have the experience and really need to start at "entry level" positions.

This is a great discussion to have with students as it opens up dialogs about careers and the decisions they will make throughout there lives. I would tend to focus more
with this student on why he is considering this industry. If it's about making alot of money you may want to steer him in another direction!;)


Marty

Mike Null
12-15-2010, 12:50 PM
I personally don't view it as a career field. It is marginal as a business and requires considerable investment.

Kenneth Hertzog
12-15-2010, 1:52 PM
You mean my engraving business is suspose to be profitable????????

Martin Boekers
12-15-2010, 1:56 PM
You mean my engraving business is suspose to be profitable????????

Maybe as a tax deduction!:D

Josh Richard
12-16-2010, 9:38 AM
good points Marty!

The most difficult "thing" I do in the classroom is explain to students how one person suceeds while someone else does not!

Josh Richard
12-16-2010, 9:40 AM
Scott, that is VERY helpful, thanks!

I did a search, evidentially I just didn't search correctly...

Joe Pelonio
12-16-2010, 3:48 PM
I would say that a career owning a business (engraving or otherwise) has unlimited potential, however the last I heard over 25% of all small businesses fail within the first two years.

As for working as an employee, there are large companies for which the employees can consider it to be a career. Some are union shops with benefits and the local prevailing wage rate, currently in our area it's $33.25/hour, and $27.25/hour for installers.

In most cases, however, laser engraving shops are small family operations. When I had employees I hired mostly students from the local art institute, who wanted to earn money while gaining experience in a hard-to-find artistic environment. I paid based on related experience and talent, the highest I ever paid was about 50% more than minimum wage and no one ever left to make more elsewhere. Most did eventually leave after graduation but for their career they went to school for, such as graphic designer.

matt heinzel
12-16-2010, 4:12 PM
I work for a trophy company that is doing ok right now. Minimum wage here in Michigan is $7.40, I got hired at $8 when minimum was $5.25, after nearly 5 years I am currently at $13.50, but with the current market and uncertainty I don't see an increase in the short term. I do engraving, sublimation, and design. I don't know how this compares to other areas, but it is actually pretty good pay for the Upper Peninsula of MI.

Martin Boekers
12-16-2010, 8:52 PM
As for working as an employee, there are large companies for which the employees can consider it to be a career. Some are union shops with benefits and the local prevailing wage rate, currently in our area it's $33.25/hour, and $27.25/hour for installers.


Joe, where do I apply!:D

Seriously, are there really jobs running engraving machines 40hr weeks that actually pay that? I am behind the loop on that, from that last survey I thought very few
shop owners even came close to that.


Marty

Anthony Scira
12-16-2010, 9:02 PM
Make sure you do not let the students talk to the people selling lasers. Or price lists from Laserbits. I have yet to find someone to pay 10 dollars for a 3 dollar pen. But that may have more to do with my lack of sales skills.............

Joe Pelonio
12-16-2010, 9:36 PM
Joe, where do I apply!:D

Seriously, are there really jobs running engraving machines 40hr weeks that actually pay that? I am behind the loop on that, from that last survey I thought very few
shop owners even came close to that.


Marty

We're not the highest cost of living area by any means but yes, in fact when bidding on some big government jobs we have to prove that we pay that much to our employees with documentation to Labor & Industries. The category "sign making" includes engraving, vinyl work, digital prints and the rest.

Terry Swift
12-22-2010, 7:56 PM
I have to totally agree with most everyone on a lot points. Yes Marty, too many young people demand to be CEO from the start, yet know nothing about that job. If they knew - maybe they wouldn't want the job. I hated being a Manager, as you usually got stuck in the middle and we're seen as the devil from those above and below. A No Win situation. Being a peon has certain perks; but if you can't make about $10 or more in todays world - you live at home with Mom and Dad and suck off of them for awhile.

Young people today have no clue or idea of what "work" really is. I got that from 20 years in the Air Force and in the civilian market. They think they should be the kid that started FaceBook or Google and earn those millions straight out of college or even High School. A course should be taught in all High Schools called the "Real Facts of Life 101."

Anthony - I agree with those nice prices that LaserBits and even JDS in their catalogs say should be MSRP. I'd love to charge $400 for one of those Winged Eagle thingies. I don't have a market for that, so what's the use in trying to promote it. Many say if you don't earn $60 an hour with your laser, you are doing it all wrong. If I mark up my products with what I'm told I should add just or profit alone, then add shipping, extra supply costs like tape, paint, etc.; then add my $60 an hour in the increment that it truly takes - then I'd probably never sell anything at that pricing structure. Many who do the show circuit and seminars - obviously live in a different world than me - even if in the same geographic area. I'm with them on making $60 an hour and a markup + expenses; so tell me where I'll get that. Getting into a market (new) has it costs and until you can become known and have an audience; then yeah - we have to charge lower rates. I don't want to undercut anyone and make it harder for me; but some peoples pricing is on the obnoxious side (many trophy shops); but they do have more / higher costs than me. So am I really undercutting?

Lead me to that Pot~o~Gold for Lasers...

Martin Boekers
12-22-2010, 10:16 PM
Terry your right about manager things. The manager tends to get to work before
everyone, does his paper work, finishes what wasn't done the night before or does
it over as it wasn't done right, checks inventory and finacials, takes out the trash,
opens the door deals with work flow and equipment problems, works on sales, does
research, sets up the schedule for the day, covers for the employee that calls in at
the last minute, resolves personality clashes, smiles at the customers who do "believe
in miracles":D works on the daily projects, orders products, talks with vendors,
then goes to a meeting to explain just what happened and why last week, whispers to
himself the company mantra "more with less" wishes co-workers a good evening then
goes back to work to get ready for tomorrow!

The next morning he wakes up and realizes it really wasn't a dream:eek:

Did I miss anything?!

Seriously, it does has it's rewards, but it does take quite a bit of work to make it
happen. I didn't understand that when I was young, I do now.

As for pricing you gotta do what your market will bear. If you inventory isn't moving
you have to figure out why it isn't and make adjustments. That's business. Some stuff
I sell higher than competitors and some stuff lower. What I do try to do is to give
them the best damn service they ever had. That is one thing I can control. Will I sell
something to everyone? I doubt it, there will always be someone that will go
elsewhere. Some want the cheapest price, to a point your breaking even. It's difficult
to find out what works and what doesn't. Sometime you have to be very "fluid with
this. I've had people come in with wanting a handful of plates and about fall over
when the find the cost. They expected to pay a dollar or two for them, "they are just
a plate" Soo I recommend a local scrapbook shop that sell nice card stocks and metallics
and explain that they can print them on their laser printer and will look ok, as it fits
their budget! But that's not what they want, so we compromise on a workable price
and get it done.

But it is really tough sometimes.

Competition is good, to a point, as it keeps us honing our skills and productivity.
but it is nice to make a decent living too.

Sorry to rant a bit, but this is the business world of today and it's best to teach how
hard it is to just make it in this world. To focus on the tools you can develop
(education)
and establish a healthy work ethic as success don't come easy.

Terry if you ever attended an engraving trade show you already know that there is a Pot~o~Gold
down every aisle!:D

I always told people the only way I'll get rich is to change my name to Richard!

Best of Luck and have a safe Holiday!

Terry Swift
12-23-2010, 8:40 AM
Martin, exactly. Business is a matter of some trial and error. Correct in that customer service and quality 2nd to none is very important and that is one of the things I try to do. Usually I'll find things wrong that my customers don't even see unless you pointed it out to them.

I didn't come into this business to become a millionaire, but would be nice if it did happen one day. I like the day to day challenges (some less than others) and using creativity to produce something totally unique and one of a kind.

I'm learning fast that too many of our products coming from China seem to have very little Quality Control and the product when received from the supplier does not even come close to being usable or standard. I've switched suppliers on quite a few things as QC is horrible and I've had too many issues with sizes varying from piece to piece, obvious scratches, dents, seams broken, and the list goes on - all of which we all encounter. Even the higher rated suppliers have that issue and you wonder what's going on. (A whole new thread).

It's forums exactly like this that make the tasks so much easier on us newbies (we've all been there right) as we can ask those "stupid" questions (sometimes more than once or twice) and get great feedback. Everyone has special techniques for doing the same task / project that work for them. That is so cool. Sometimes that doesn't work in mine or your environment; but does for the contributor. Usually we have enough "play" stock (messed up / salvaged items) to try it and the only thing we use is some extra time. If it makes us more efficient, then we can add more profit to the bottom line on that and other products we sell. That makes us all happy then. Many of you need to put all your experience into transcripts / books (I thought Dan Hintz was doing that) and sell them. I mean, Tom Buzzard sells his stuff and seems to do well with it. All of you have so many creative items that that could be an extra product line for us all. Provide the templates and instructions and makes a few dollars. I'd usually spend a few dollars to buy something like that on a cool item, rather than spend many hours and botched materials on it. Of course, that makes it all rote and the object is the experience we get from those botched items.

As stated, kids today and even us need / needed a "Real Life in the World 101" in High School or even before. Are any of really us prepared to walk out of home into the world? I wasn't and learned some lessons from the hard knocks. While the 3 R's are important; not enough emphasis is placed on going out on our own while in school and parents aren't always teaching that. Maybe kids should be exposed to business and life in an internship type program. Eyes would then be opened and some preparation can be made before jumping in all the way after High School. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :eek::eek::eek::eek: