Zing 16 or VLS2.30??

[dave hensley]

Hello all,

My first post here and I'm asking a question I am sure no one has ever asked before. :D

I am looking at entry level lasers and have it narrowed down to either the Epilog Zing 16 or the Universal VLS2.30. Universal has a special on the VLS for around $8500 and stated that it's normally $11k. So my first question is what makes this model more expensive when, judging by what I've seen online, the zing and VLS appear to have similar specs?

Ideally, I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience with both systems (or brands), but any comments are appreciated.

I am leaning towards the Zing because it will end up being cheaper overall. However, I was told that replacing parts (laser, motor) on Epilog systems can cost more than Universal machines - can anyone confirm?

I know I can't go wrong with either machine, but I have an annoying character flaw that causes me to question if I making the right choice! :D

Oh, I was also considering a GCC C180, but to get into the 25-30 watt range, the price range went beyond the limit I've set for my budget on this.

Thanks all!

Dave

[Joe De Medeiros]

I went through this back in April, I really liked the build quality of the Zing 16 compared to the VLS2.30, I was not impressed with the GCC C180, I ended up getting the larger Zing 24. If at all possible I would go and get a demo from each vendor, before buying.

[Scott Shepherd]

If the VLS uses the Job Control software, then I'd say the VLS for several reasons. The VLS has a programmable Z axis, meaning the table moves up and down automatically. The Epilog requires you to focus. With the Epilog, every time you change jobs and material thicknesses, you will have to focus. With the VLS, you would enter the material thickness and it would move the table automatically. Doesn't sound like much, but once you use a machine that have a programmable Z, it's hard to go backwards.

Second, if it's using the Job Control software, it stores all your job history, gives you the ability to go back and pull data from previous jobs, which can make life a lot easier. When someone asks you to quote something and it's similar to something you have done in the past, you can scroll back to that job and see the actual run time for that job. Or, if you had a job that you dialed the setting in on, and you want to do something similar, you can pull that job up and see what settings you used (as well as save settings and call them up and any time for any job).

Overall, I'll take a machine with Job Control software and a programmable Z axis over a machine that has neither any day.

Nothing wrong with the Zing, that I know of, but as someone's that's used both brands (neither model), I can say I use my Job Control software EVERY single day, and I use my programmable Z axis EVERY day. I'd never buy another laser that didn't have those two features.

With the Zing, when you "print" something, it sends it to the machine and once you turn the machine off, it's gone. So you can't come back tomorrow and see what settings you used for that job. You can certainly "save" every job you do with all the data, but that's a pain to do.

One more to consider would be the Trotec Rayjet. Same type machine, should have job control and Z axis as well. Certainly worth a look at the Trotec as well.

Just my opinion.

[dave hensley]

Thanks Joe and Scott! I am trying to arrange a demo on both systems this weekend - hope I can get that worked out.

I had looked at the rayjet several months back, but can't recall why it didn't impress. I may have to look over it again.

I'll expect I'll be back with more questions! Thanks again! :)

[Dan Hintz]

To add to Steve's comments about the auto-Z...

It's awesome when you have items with several levels that all need engraving. Do each level in a different color, set each level's Z height, and press 'Go'. No need to readjust between sections.

[David Fairfield]

I'm wary of anything automatic on the Z axis, due to the potential for *crunch*.

[Barry Clark]

I do like the "Z" axis option. Ya just need to be on the ball, otherwise the crunch is a real possibility..
Don't ask how I know:eek: No damage, but quite a scare for a few minutes.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm wary of anything automatic on the Z axis, due to the potential for *crunch*.

David I've run 1000's and 1000's of jobs. Never once had a crunch with it. The way the machine is built, if you did make a mistake, if it hits the work, the entire beam pops off, so it's no damage. The bearings on that section are spring loaded with rounded edges, so if you jam it, it'll pop them out, raising the rail off the slideway. You can just grab them, open the spring part back up, put it back on, let go, the springs put tension back on it and you're good. I've not crashed it, but I have taken it off to replace the belts, bearings, and pulleys for maintenance.

[Ron Chapellaz]

Dave,
I've got a Zing 16 and I really like this little machine. It doesn't have an encoder strip that can cause problems like other machines have. It does have a manual focus, so yes the Z axis could be an issue, but it depends on what your going to use this machine for. I do trophies and plaques here, so for me it's not an issue as everything is flat. Epilog has great tech support as does ULS. For the price it's a great machine. My only regret after owning it a year now is that I didn't get the 24. I opted for the 16 which fits for my business, but there are times when I wish I had the 24.

[dave hensley]

Thank you Ron! I've decided that if I get an Zing that it will be the 24 as the 16 does not allow for a rotary attachment. The 24 will go beyond what I had set as my budget, but it can't be helped as the rotary attachment was one of the features I was really looking forward (not to mention it's the one my wife liked the best! :))

I have a demo on the VLS model tomorrow which should help me make up my mind.

[Brian Tymchak]

... but I have taken it off to replace the belts, bearings, and pulleys for maintenance.

I too am starting the research on purchasing an entry level laser. Like Dave, I was pretty much going to focus on the Zings and the VLS 2.30. Scott's reply sparked a question in my mind. How often should one perform the kind of maintenance that Scott mentions here, and how expensive is it?

Thanks, Brian

[Scott Shepherd]

Not every often. Of course it depends on how much you run it, if it's raster engraving or vector cutting, etc.

In general, it would be something every couple of years. The entire kit to do my machine, which is larger than the models mentioned is in the $450 range, if I recall correctly. That's belts, bearings, pulleys.

[Brian Tymchak]

Thanks Scott. That doesn't sound too bad. I would be mostly vector cutting on thin plywoods and veneers, to start with anyway.

[Scott Shepherd]

My guess is most people run them for 5 years or more. I have some very specific things we cut and I can pick up problems with the belts very early on. For what most people do, they'd never see what I see, so it's probably something people almost never change until they have a problem.

[Lee DeRaud]

I would be mostly vector cutting on thin plywoods and veneers, to start with anyway.Vector cutting doesn't stress the motion system (belts/bearings/etc) anywhere near as hard as rastering.

[Ed Maloney]

Thank you Ron! I've decided that if I get an Zing that it will be the 24 as the 16 does not allow for a rotary attachment. The 24 will go beyond what I had set as my budget, but it can't be helped as the rotary attachment was one of the features I was really looking forward (not to mention it's the one my wife liked the best! :))

I have a demo on the VLS model tomorrow which should help me make up my mind.

Yes - Go with the 24. Easier to get sheet materials like Mike's Birch wood without having to cut it down to size.