Just bragging on a tool that usualy gets a bad rap

[Aaron Berk]

So about 2 yrs ago I bought a Craftsman RAS at a yard sale for a whopping $5 :D

I knew I didn't really have "allot" of use for it, but come on $5 :eek:

So in the past 2yrs I've used it on 3 major projects.

1st was a retail tenant improvment

2nd was some custom shelving 14" deep and mitered.

3rd (tonight) is a commission for 100 display cases.

Well tonight I fell in love with this RAS all over again. Breaking down 312 liner ft of 1x material into 12" and 11.5" pcs
I just wanted to give a shout out to all you RAS haters:cool: (or to be more PC, all you RAS disapprovers;))

[Van Huskey]

I actually loved all three of the ones I have had. Is yours one of the recall saws? If so they will send you a new guard and new table.

[Mike Cutler]

An RAS is a very valuable tool if you have the space. The bad rap is usually associated with folks unknowingly installing the incorrect type of blade, not using it properly,and the problems that Sears/Emerson created by design.

[Aaron Berk]

Yes, and I already did the guard and table recall.
I also have a nice negative hook blade and replaced the slide bearings and rails.

It takes a bit to get aligned, but it purrs right through the cuts and leaves a cut that rivals my WW2 blade on the TS

[fRED mCnEILL]

I had a RAS that I sold when I got a slding miter saw. How is a RAS better than a slider?

[Rick Potter]

Way to go Aaron.

I have a 12" DeWalt 7790 permanently set up for crosscuts, that I use all the time. I recently bought a really clean Sears RAS just like yours, that I keep on a mobile base. This is my $200 dedicated dado machine. It will run dado's up to 16" wide, and is perfect for stuff like shelving units, and closet organizers. It is also much quicker than doing them on my tablesaw (with a Jessem slider). Takes about two minutes to drop a new fence board in, make your first cut through it, and you have a guide to line your dado's up EXACTLY where you want them.

Rick Potter

[William Lai]

What are some good ras to look for? I see them so cheap, and I have some bookcases and cabinets to build, might pick one up based on what you guys are saying, instead of a scms.

[Mike Heidrick]

I'll neener. I had the infamous digital readout craftsman. It worked great. I sold it so I could justify the one I really wanted some day. Two years later I found one at the end of 2009. You might hate RASs but this one has a motor bigger than most of your cabinet saw motors and a blade the size of the pizza your family ate last and will take two full 12" dado stacks if you want it too. It's 29" inch crosscuts trims up all but the biggest panels for me. I love it. I way overpaid compared to many of your RAS deas (1K) but it needed virtually no overhaul'n and is single phase so it was plug and run. I love it and thats all I care about. Forrest @ Amazon gave us big RAS owners gifts last year too - 16" forrest WWI blades for about half a 10" WWII.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/P1033684.jpg

[lowell holmes]

Try doing cross dadoes on a bookshelf on a slider or table saw.

For ripping, the work is up at a height that is easy to control and see.

[Mike Harrison]

Gosh Lowell, Ya mean cutting lengthwise?

Some would have heart failure, but I use mine for ripping a straight edge on ruff stock. Its the easiest way for me to do it since I have the RAS and miter saw on a combination table of some 16'. My first RAS a C'man, that served me well, and later on got a 12" Delta turret saw. There are times I'm really thankful to have a RAS, great tool.

[lowell holmes]

Proper use of push sticks, safety glasses, and the anti-kickback pawls makes it a relatively simple task. I always have the guard in place. Long boards are easier for me on the RAS because I have wings that I can put up to provide a 9 foot long ripping table.

Now a wobble dado set will wet your britches. I only tried it once. :)

I've never launched a missle on the RAS, but I have on the TS.

I mostly rip in the bandsaw these days and then joint the edge. I feel safer doing it. Although, short 3/4" rips are good on the TS.

[Bob Aquino]

An RAS is a very valuable tool if you have the space. The bad rap is usually associated with folks unknowingly installing the incorrect type of blade, not using it properly,and the problems that Sears/Emerson created by design.

For 5 bucks, you cant argue with a tool that gives you good results. Not taking anything away from the OP, I'm glad that he has a good saw that has paid for itself many times over. From my own experience with a 60's vintage craftsman, the issues with the sears saws was that the machines would either go out of adjustment or if you swung the arm and then tried to return to 90, it may not be back at 90. This was mostly the result of "value engineering" on the part of sears and everybody else trying to get one of these saws in everybody's garage or basement by mostly lowering the price. And we all know you cant lower the price without giving something up. You can readjust it back to 90, but who wants to do that for every cut?

The other factor in many cases was that the table was not flat and level (really perpendicular) to the blade. This was due in large part to the fact it was just one sheet of chipboard or MDF and that has no stability, especially if its a wide board. Way back in the 50's, a guy named Wally Kunkle (Mr. Sawdust) came up with a design that used two layers of board (plywood, mdf, etc) and sandwiched in some flat steel bars in the middle to provide some long term rigidity and stability so it would remain flat and level over time. A later variation of this is to use some U-channel that is available at the big boxes called Unistrut to run perpendicular to the main supports under the table and provide a very straight and flat structure to support the wooden surface. Both methods appear to work equally well.

As for which saw is best, conventional wisdom goes with the old Dewalts that were mostly cast iron in the columns and arms and the turret style Deltas and their predecessors, the multiplex designs. There are other designs out there as well, like an old Monarch or Walker Turner, but you are unlikely to run across any of those at a garage sale. I've had an older (60's vintage) sears saw as well as a Dewalt MBF and now a Delta 30c. I cussed at the sears saw for all the same reasons many folks cussed at them, and it took about 10 years before I went back to the MBF on a whim. I upgraded the MBF to the 30c because I wanted a larger and more powerful saw. I would have gone bigger than that but don't have the space for it.

So that you understand why these old saws are the better design, here is the column from the MBF, you can see its one solid piece of machined cast iron, with the stops for 90 and 45 milled in.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SraQ8KupTQI/AAAAAAAAHxI/N5GZBS3qoRE/s800/P1040285.JPG

Here you can see how the arm locks down to 90 or 45 on either side. It also has micro adjustments to dial it in once you get the fence clamped in to the table. It is a solid piece of cast iron with some very nice machining for the carriage to slide in. If you look down on the carriage, you will see how you can adjust the saw motor angle to the table:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SvxTCppmxwI/AAAAAAAAH8w/u5uhBGBGgqY/s800/P1040363.JPG

This is a Mr. Sawdust style table gluing up:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SvwMVN5mLDI/AAAAAAAAH8U/nPOSTthSff0/s800/P1040350.JPG

Here is a picture of a saw (not mine) with a table using unistrut perpendicular the the main support bars:
http://www.johnsonphotographic.com/goodstuff/owwm/GWI/images/DSC_5368.jpg

[Don Bullock]

Your Craftsman RAS looks very similar to a Montgomery Wards (Yep, that's where he bought it) RAS. Unfortunately when my parents moved I didn't have room for the saw and it was sold in s garage sale. I sure wish I had it today for projects like the one's you described. Back when it was available in his shop I used that RAS for all cross cuts and dados. It did an admirable job.

[Aaron Berk]

Yeah, this RAS isn't the crown jewel like the ones Mike and Rob posted. It takes allot of tweaking at times and doesn't like to be moved around the shop.
But when duty calls, it's available and willing.

The first time I used it for rip cutting I was breaking down 4x8 sheets of 3/4" ply into 11-3/4 wide strips. 3 sheets of it, I was really amazed at why some folks would consider ripping an obsolete function for these tools.

[Mark Ashmeade]

I had a RAS that I sold when I got a slding miter saw. How is a RAS better than a slider?

Induction motor. Brushes will never wear out, because it doesn't have any! MUCH quieter operation than a SCMS.
Can run a dado stack, and does so from the top so you can see what's happening - unlike a table saw.
Can perform rip cuts.
Can perform cove cuts.
Can run on 220V (most of them)

Now to turn the question around, what can a SCMS do that a RAS can't?

[Chris Padilla]

There are two things one does in woodworking:

Move the tool through the wood OR
Move the wood through the tool.

There will always be situations (and therefore the tools) to accomplish one or the other as one is usually easier, faster, and safer than the other.

[Aaron Berk]

So it always intrigues me when I hear folks commenting on the similarity's and interchangeability of Radial Arm Saws and Miter Saws. When it comes to which one should go in the shop, I say both!

I find them to be 2 DRASTICALLY different machines. I would relate a RAS to a production oriented tool, and the miter saw more of a custom tool. Now the SCMS and MS's can be used in a production setting (just ask any trim carpenter, myself included) but for large scale repetitive (batch) work I would never chose the Miter saw.

I feel that in the right hands a miter saw or RAS can be equally as accurate "cut for cut".

The 2 things that separates the 2 saws in my book are: motor & trigger
Being able to turn the power on and blow through a hundred cuts sets the RAS up a notch from the SCMS for production work.

And here's an interesting photo, this is my operators view. I can see any cut line and no lasers needed;)

Any way, just mumbling stuff before I head off to bed............173850

[Chip Lindley]

A SCMS is a portable tool. A "real" RAS is a stationary machine! And, that's all I'm gonna say about that...


You might hate RASs but this one has a motor bigger than most of your cabinet saw motors and a blade the size of the pizza your family ate last and will take two full 12" dado stacks if you want it too. It's 29" inch crosscuts trims up all but the biggest panels for me. I love it. I way overpaid compared to many of your RAS deas (1K) but it needed virtually no overhaul'n and is single phase so it was plug and run. I love it and that's all I care about...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/P1033684.jpg

Now That's what I'm Talkin' 'Bout Mike!!


An RAS is a very valuable tool if you have the space. The bad rap is usually associated with folks unknowingly installing the incorrect type of blade, not using it properly,and the problems that Sears/Emerson created by design.

I am sold on big powerful RAS's! My 7.5hp Rockwell rocks! So does my Delta 12"! Both machines together did not cost what Mike's Monster did!!

My '70's Craftsman 10" RAS served me "ok" until I rid myself of it. When set up for a perfect 90 degree cut, it did what it was supposed to do, but slowly. A 3/4 hp motor does not like crosscutting 4/4 roughsawn oak, 1-1/8" thick. IF the saw was ever changed to a miter or bevel cut (cringe!) there was quite a bit of trial and error to regain an exact 90 degree crosscut again. For that reason, I only deviated from 90 degrees on very special occasions. Those 10" Sears RAS's are meant for ply, softwoods and small trim. I got my $269-worth out of it over better than 30 years. I am sure the OP will easily get his $5-worth!

[Aaron Berk]

Yeah I got my five bucks out of it the moment I turned it on. I bought it from a yard sale with no electricity. My crapsman RAS bogs down allot, I almost bought a Dewalt MBF tonight. But I really want more than a 9" blade, so I'm waiting for a Dewalt GA model with a medium arm and 12" blade.

Stationary huh? That could be debated :cool::D

[Chip Lindley]

(RAS) Stationary huh? That could be debated :cool::D

Ok Ok! I will capitulate. A RAS can be very portable too! Here's an example on the Joplin MO CL:

173875

[Aaron Berk]

Ok Ok! I will capitulate. A RAS can be very portable too! Here's an example on the Joplin CL:

173875


That's AWESOME I want it!!!! no lie, Joplin where?






edit, ok I found it Sawmill on wheels, 14" Rockwell $1,495 man I want that. think he'll take $500? lol

[Callan Campbell]

Induction motor. Brushes will never wear out, because it doesn't have any! MUCH quieter operation than a SCMS.
Can run a dado stack, and does so from the top so you can see what's happening - unlike a table saw.
Can perform rip cuts.
Can perform cove cuts.
Can run on 220V (most of them)

Now to turn the question around, what can a SCMS do that a RAS can't?
Be easily carried from my basement to my backyard for working in better weather months like summer!. Ok, I admit it, it was the only thing I could come up with.... My first and last experience with a decent RAS was a huge old machine, 3 or 5HP I think. No blade brake, it just spun, and spun, and spun, on shutdown. No guard either, we were just VERYYYY careful around that massive blade...[smile]

[Chris Padilla]

So it always intrigues me when I hear folks commenting on the similarity's and interchangeability of Radial Arm Saws and Miter Saws. When it comes to which one should go in the shop, I say both!

Fully agree. My dream shop has a long wall with both tools set up on a long bench...perhaps the tools are ~4' apart. :D

[Rod Sheridan]

The one thing RAS's and CMS's do very well is take up shop space.

Since I have very little shop space I settled for a Hammer B3:D.

One place where I worked had a 10 HP swing saw with an 18" blade.

It was used to break down stock before it went into the gang rip.

I still have the occasional shiver thinking about that machine.

A good RAS is very good at some tasks, not so good at others. Just like almost every machine.

In my opinion it is however inferior to the sliding tablesaw for furniture making.......Regards, Rod.

[Randy Smith]

I also have an old DeWalt mbf that I rebuilt several years ago. I was using my miter saw for most of my crosscutting so the RAS was just taking up space. I made a few attempts to sell it over a couple years and it sold twice, but the sale fell through both times. Maybe it was destined to stay in my shop because I recently found a perfect use for it. With a dado stack on it, it is now my dedicated tenoner. The set up is quick and cuts are very repeatable. Love it.

[Neal Clayton]

Ok Ok! I will capitulate. A RAS can be very portable too!

mine is way more portable than that, two people is all it takes ;).

see the original sales brochure, it says lightweight and portable right there on it (about 300 pounds so those two poor guys are making it look easier than it is)

174056

[Bill White]

I've had my RAS (Craftsman) since 1978. Good tune up and a good blade-----It works.
Just got my first TS 5 yrs ago. I didn't know that you couldn't do all the stuff on a RAS that everyone says is dangerous. I've ripped, mitered, dadoed, routed. My first year with the TS was the most fright filled of my life. Oh well......
What do I know?
Bill

[Ted Wong]

we had the same saw in our shop for years and I hated it.

[paul dyar]

I had a hard time in 1996 deciding between a scms and ras, the scms won out, but if I had the space and the money I would have both. My brother built his house using a ras.
Paul

[Rich Engelhardt]

mine is way more portable than that, two people is all it takes ;).

see the original sales brochure, it says lightweight and portable right there on it (about 300 pounds so those two poor guys are making it look easier than it is)


Chip,
My wife thanks you for that picture ;).
I got such a kick out of it I set it as my "wallpaper".
(I had a somewhat provocative picture of Fergie (the singer) that she wasn't at all happy about :D.)


Re: RAS vs slider..
I recently sold my jobsite table saw. I'm really thinking hard about replacing it w/a RAS.
<$100 to $150 can buy a very, very, very good RAS.
A "good" slider plus a "decent" jobsite table saw add up to a whole lot more $$.

[David Nelson1]

New Table????


I actually loved all three of the ones I have had. Is yours one of the recall saws? If so they will send you a new guard and new table.

[Aaron Berk]

Yes, a new 1" thick mdf table, fence, and (clamp board?) along with a new carriage handle and guard assembly. Oh yeah, and all the table mounting brackets bolts and clamps.

It's a sweet deal


New Table????

[David Nelson1]

Why???? I know about the guard issue but what's up with table? I need a new one and this would be a good out for me. LOL

Yes, a new 1" thick mdf table, fence, and (clamp board?) along with a new carriage handle and guard assembly. Oh yeah, and all the table mounting brackets bolts and clamps.

It's a sweet deal

[Aaron Berk]

Shoot I didn't ask why.

I was just happy to get all kids of free stuff, even sent me a new manual when I asked for it.:cool:

[Aaron Berk]

Well after all my hoopla and praises of my trusty ol RAS.................











I sold it. Yup, I sold it today.:o

But don't despair I tell myself, as I get off the phone with the seller of $400 Dewalt 14" 220v RAS :D:D:D

I'll be making a 10hr round trip road trip this weekend:cool: and gloating next.