SPF for bench top?

[Dustin Keys]

I went to buy the lumber last week for my bench. The Home Depot near me has had a stack of SYP 2x4s for months. I finally caught a break in my schedule, and my brother was in town with his truck, so we went to get my lumber to build a bench. They were out of SYP 2x4s. Not only were they out, they had no idea what I was talking about and said it must have just been some special order stock that they had. They have no plans of getting any more.

Of course, they have more SPF than you know what to do with and couldn't understand why I wasn't interested in it. It's typically labelled "whitewood." I didn't think I would have any problem finding the SYP as I had seen it every time I was in HD. I never see anyone building a bench from SPF, so I'm concerned that it is a bad choice.

Should I look harder for SYP, or will the SPF make for a serviceable bench top? It's fairly cheap and available in abundance, which is the only reason I'm considering it really. I was originally told it was far too soft to make a good bench top though. It's a fairly significant investment in lumber and the time it will take to build it, so I want to get the right material.

They had SYP 2x12s, so I did grab two of those for the stretchers. At least I didn't leave empty-handed.

Thanks,
Dustin

[Pat Barry]

Dustin, what is SPF? Its a new term to me. Also, if they have the material in 2x12, I'm assuming you could rip it to size you need.

[Robert Rozaieski]

SPF (i.e. Spruce-Pine-Fir; a generic term they use to identify stud wood that can be from any of these species) will be fine.

173667

[Prashun Patel]

I wouldn't use SPF studs for two reasons. Pine and spruce aren't as dimensionally stable or heavy as fir. Second, those studs at HD tend to be rather knotty.

If you must use BORG wood, then use the KD Douglas Fir studs just to the right of the SPF bin. They're less knotty and will hold up a little better.

Some of the 'white wood' in the hard board section might be SYP. The 5/4 pieces usually look pretty good to me; but I can't tell you what they are.

Last, I submit that if you are considering using studs for the bench, then you are prepared to do a lot of planing and jointing to get a solid, smooth, laminatable surface. If you have access to a planer and jointer, then you might consider getting ash or soft maple from a lumber dealer or even mail order. It will be a little pricier, but a lot heavier and harder. Hey, my bench is DougFir + MDF top + DougFir edge banding, so don't go by me, but I'll tell you that my bench takes a beating and shows it easy.

[Dustin Keys]

Ugh, I should have bought it then while I had the truck there in that case.

I could have sworn that I had read it was a really bad choice for a bench.

Oh well, I'll have to buy him dinner again I guess to get him back over here with the truck.

Thanks,
Dustin

[Dustin Keys]

I wouldn't use SPF studs for two reasons. Pine and spruce aren't as dimensionally stable or heavy as fir. Second, those studs at HD tend to be rather knotty.

If you must use BORG wood, then use the KD Douglas Fir studs just to the right of the SPF bin. They're less knotty and will hold up a little better.

Some of the 'white wood' in the hard board section might be SYP. The 5/4 pieces usually look pretty good to me; but I can't tell you what they are.

Last, I submit that if you are considering using studs for the bench, then you are prepared to do a lot of planing and jointing to get a solid, smooth, laminatable surface. If you have access to a planer and jointer, then you might consider getting ash or soft maple from a lumber dealer or even mail order. It will be a little pricier, but a lot heavier and harder. Hey, my bench is DougFir + MDF top + DougFir edge banding, so don't go by me, but I'll tell you that my bench takes a beating and shows it easy.

DF is not plentiful nor cheap where I'm at. Most of the DF that is available is treated lumber for outdoor use. The SPF in my stores is far too white to be SYP.

I don't have a jointer or planer yet, so this won't be the showpiece job that some of the benches I see here are. I'm following the construction steps that are in Bob and Dave's Good, Fast and Cheap Bench plans. I've modified the design a bit to suit my needs and vise, but I'm going to construct it basically the same way they do. They did theirs without a planer and jointer, so I should be okay.

Thanks,
Dustin

[Andrae Covington]

...They had SYP 2x12s, so I did grab two of those for the stretchers...

Why not buy more of the 2x12's for the rest of the bench? In Schwarz's workbench book (the first one) he specifically recommends buying 2x12's rather than 2x4's, as they tend to be much clearer and straighter. He then rips them into narrower pieces to glue up for the top (for a roubo-style bench, anyway)... basically discarding the flatsawn or pith middle and ending up with two rift- or quartersawn boards that are ~3-4 inches wide.

[Michael N Taylor]

Dustin, You don't want to use SPF for your top, it will not hold up over the long haul and it would need to be replaced a lot sooner than other material. Why don't you get the 2x12 in SYP and rip them to size, the material in the 2x12 will be less knotty and a lot straighter.

[Erik France]

They had SYP 2x12s, so I did grab two of those for the stretchers. At least I didn't leave empty-handed.The SPF wouldn't be bad for a top. It is not quite as hard as SYP, but I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

I made mine from ripped SYP 2x12s and 2x10s from Home Depot. Their SYP 2x4s were not very straight or clear. I got a lot more usable wood from the 2x12s. Grain orientation for the top was easier to deal with using the ripped 2x12s. Sorting through the 16' 2x12s wasn't very much fun. I had already gone through the shorter boards during the base build. I found that the longer 2x12s were straighter too. I had HD crosscut them in half so I could get them home easier. There wasn't much difference in the price per BF between the sizes either.

[Chen-Tin Tsai]

I made mine out of 2x12's that were marked "Hem/Fir", which supposedly is Hemlock or Douglas Fir, whichever it may be. While it's not quite as hard as SYP, it works just fine and cuts (more or less) cleanly. The Schwarz recommends buying the longest, clearest 2x12's and ripping those down. This is usually because the longest, clearest pieces end up as 2x12's since they have to span long distances, while 2x4's are usually not as clear and have more imperfections (knots, twists, bows, etc) which will have to be worked out before .

[Brett Bobo]

Dustin,
I'm not but only 200 miles South of you and at Lowe's and HD, all I can find is SYP dimensional lumber with the occassional bin of SPF and 4x4 DF. You may have already done this but I'd suggest calling several stores in the Dallas area for the availability of SYP. Don't quote me on this but I believe Temple-Inland in Dibol, Texas supplies most of the Lowe's and HD stores in the Texas area.

In my opinion, you can't go wrong with selecting almost any available wood as long as you realize the downsides (or upsides) of what you select. For example, the SYP, SPF, and even DF are less dense, approximately half, than "typical" workbench woods such as maple. So, just expect more dings and dents and the frequency that you re-flatten the top. I wouldn't select anything less than a #2 grade of dimensional lumber for a workbench, preferably #1 grade, to reduce waste and avoid stability issues over time. Also, I would avoid ripping larger material down to smaller material as there may be extensive tension release within the wood itself, particularly several days after. What may be a straight board today may be a big banana several days to a week later with woods like SYP, particularly if the wood is wet or been wet from sitting outside of the store uncovered. At the very least, rough cut your material over-size to allow for tension release and then after it has stabilized, joint and plane the boards to their final dimensions.

[bradley strong]

If you don't have a jointer and planer, you are in for a tough project. Have you considered laminating sheet goods. Someone else mentioned MDF with edge banding. This is a great idea. Top it off with a piece of hard board that can be replaced once it is worn out. The bench will be flatter and more usable. For woodworking, a bench much not only be stable, it must be flat as well. OSB is very dense and cheap. You can have it cut at HD or Lowes to the size you need. Glue it up with liquid nails and top it with hard board. Any top made from construction grade lumber will warp unless you let the lumber dry in your shop for a few months and then joint and plane everything before you build. Even then it's going to move some.

[Johnny Kleso]

I used SYP 2x4s for my bench that I have outdoors and only covered with a tarp..

I never planed to 2x4s till they where glued up and so far 5 years it is doing just fine replanning the top and adding spar varnish ever other year..

I glued it up in two and three boards at a time then planes the glue faces till they matched well and glued the small glue ups into larger ones..


My first WW Project pretty much..
http://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/projects/bench/bench.htm

[Zach England]

I thought he was putting sunscreen on his bench. Seriously.

[Kevin Grady]

Look into Glulam beams. They're already glued up for you. Just need to flatten them. Just got two 3 1/8" x 12" x 8ft beams for a split top I am building and using "white wood" 2x6s for the base. Glulam beams (at least here in the NW are made primarily of DF). Also, make sure you get the architectural beams (made for exposed beams construction).

[Dustin Keys]

I do not have a table saw, so I can't really rip 2x12s down either. I have a circular saw, but I see little chance of a beginner like myself rippping such large boards down accurately enough for a benchtop without creating a nightmare of a planing job.

I should have made it clearer in the OP, but I'm very much a newb with meager means to start things out. I've been buying up tools as I can, and I have enough to build a simple bench and some basic projects now. This isn't my handtool bench for life, it's a beginner bench to get me started. While it is a first bench, I want to put enough thought into the design and materials so that it lasts for a reasonable period of time and functions adequately.

Going to a Dallas store is a possibility if I can talk my brother into it. It probably wouldn't be a problem, but it will be at least a few more weeks before we could do it which would be a bit frustrating for me as I really wanted to get started.

Laminating sheet goods sounds much easier than what I've been planning, but is that really a good workbench top for handtool work? I was under the impression that it wasn't.

Dustin

[Curt Harms]

I'm not a neander so take this for what it's worth. If it were me, I'd build the base out of SYP or clear SPF, whatever you can find. I think it was WoodSmith had a simple & stout bench very much like you're talking about. The legs were 3 laminated 2X6's with the middle one being short and forming a bridle joint top & bottom. Then build a replaceable top out of multiple layers of plywood and/or MDF. When you have the time, money & inclination, you could build a top out of syp, maple or whatever and mount it on your existing base. I did a top with 2 layers of 3/4" ply topped with sacrificial 1/4" plywood surrounded by a hardwood skirt. I used winding sticks and a straight edge to get it as straight & level as I could. It's now covered with clutter:o.

[Pat Barry]

Dustin, In the case of what you said, then I would go with a laminated top using 3/4 flooring plywood (2 layers stuck together with a little glue) and with a replaceable hardboard top piece like suggested in some of the other threads I've seen around here. Just pick a few of the straightest 2x4's you can find for the structure to support it and then screw it together. This doesn't have to be elaborate to be functional. If you are going to use it as a reference surface for assembly then you willl need to take precautions for flatness overall but for GP work I think you want something solid and something you can clamp to.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I sorted through bins of SPF at a local Lowes and found enough fir for a bench top. Top was 84" long and I had bought 2" X 10" X 14' & 16' pcs. to get enough (I ripped them lengthwise to try to get near riftsawn lumber). Cut down to rough lengths and let it acclimate in my basement shop for several months before gluing up and none of it was worth the effort, as the top has more moves than Lady Gaga. That was 3 years ago, and I have to flatten it every season change.

This summer, I will either make or buy another top to replace this one.

[Brett Bobo]

as the top has more moves than Lady Gaga. .

Now, that's funny!

[Rob Fisher]

I do not have a table saw, so I can't really rip 2x12s down either. I have a circular saw, but I see little chance of a beginner like myself rippping such large boards down accurately enough for a benchtop without creating a nightmare of a planing job.

A very simple straightedge/rip guide can be made from a 4x8 sheet of MDF. This is what I use to break down sheet goods. I will use the same guide to rip down 2x12's for a bench top, hopefully sometime next year.

Rob

[Jason Chestnut]

I want to add my voice to the chorus. SYP makes a great bench top, if that's what you can get. Being in Texas, I would assume it's available. I'm currently in the middle of a roubo-style bench build with a laminated top. I'm using nominal 3.5" boards ripped from 2x10's and 2x12's from the blue BORG's framing lumber. I have no power tools. Yes, it's work, but it's fun and rewarding work.

[Jason Chestnut]

If you really don't want to build the laminated top, you could do the Nicholson-style bench. See Bob R's blog at logancabinetshoppe.com and Chris Schwarz's book for more info on it.

[Ron Williams]

The SPF is to soft for the top. Buy the 2X12's and rip them to size you will get better wood

[Dave MacArthur]

With no tools, and just looking for a good flat bench that you can use for assembly and hand tools, I would go and buy a solid-core door at HD and slap it on a base. Instant torsion-box style bench and heavy, will be cheaper than anything else you do and likely flatter/better. This will allow you to get started working without going through the heinous process of trying to build a bench from lumber with no tools. Tons of folks have simple benches made this way.

[michael osadchuk]

Here's a link to a thread about the hand tool made laminated softwood "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast and Cheap Bench", including the plans and construction narrative...

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?32258-Building-a-workbench-with-spruce-2x4-s&highlight=building+a+workbench+with+spruce

if you are really interested in learning some woodworking skills, go with something along the lines of the above

on the other hand, if you stumble across a 200 pound super flat cast off hospital door for $50, seize the opportunity for an almost instant benchtop...

hmmm......and it's not impossible and even not all that time consuming to use a rip panel handsaw to cut uniform strips off 2 x ? softwood construction timbers.....

good luck

michael

[Sam Takeuchi]

I built my first bench from SPF and top can be very temperamental. When I needed flat reference surface, I flattened it as needed basis, normally only takes a few minutes as I only flattened the part I needed.

In the end, it can total work. It doesn't really matter if it's soft or not. I mean it'll dent or scratched easily, but it's by no means like marshmallow. It'll withstand banging from a hammer, will hold heavy stuff fine and can be made to look alright. But if you could go for a better choice, I think you should. For legs, maybe SPF is fine, but for top, it's too unstable for a long lasting use.

[Bruce Haugen]

My first (and only) bench is made of SPF 2 X 4's, laminated face to face, which is what I could afford when I built it. It's probably softer than other choices, but then, it doesn't dent whatever I'm building on it. I'd much rather that the bench take the abuse than the furniture being made on it. With 3 X 4" legs, 2 X 6 stretchers and a bit of a drawer unit in there, it's heavy enough to stand up to whatever it needs to handle. It's easy to flatten, and I don't mind if it gets oil on it, or grease, or stain or whatever. I've rebuilt motorcycle engines, stained projects, glued up stuff and banged the living daylights out of things on it. I don't get bent out of shape if I drop a spinning router on it. It's a bench, designed to work, not a showpiece. How long it'll last, I have no idea. It's only been 25 years so far. So maybe it won't last for the long haul, but it'll make it for my life span I'm quite sure.

[Erik France]

I want to add my voice to the chorus. SYP makes a great bench top, if that's what you can get. Being in Texas, I would assume it's available. I'm currently in the middle of a roubo-style bench build with a laminated top. I'm using nominal 3.5" boards ripped from 2x10's and 2x12's from the blue BORG's framing lumber. I have no power tools. Yes, it's work, but it's fun and rewarding work.When I was doing mine HD had lots of SYP everything, but Lowes only had some 2x4s. I figured both would have plenty, but it wasn't the case at the moment.

[Matt Radtke]

I seem to recall Chris Schwarz linking to someone that was in a similar situation as you: In want of a laminated Roubo top and no table saw. His solution was to use 2x6s. Ripping not required, jut a fair amount of planing to get the thing flat, but no worse than using 2x4s. 2x6s should also be a little better quality than 2x4s as well.

[Dustin Keys]

Thank you all for your help!

As always, there is a fair amount of conflicting advice here, but a lot of it has helped me. I'm currently leaning towards the suggestion to build a solid base from what I can find and make the top of laminated sheet goods. This would get me a functional bench to start working with, and I could build a better top in the future and replace the first one as long as I keep that in mind with regard to how I join the top and base.

I'm thinking the OSB and hardboard top are the most economical choice for me at present. I really do want to make a SYP laminated top, but that can happen in the future. Using affordable sheet goods for the first top also allows me to get started right away instead of waiting a long period of time for the SYP to thoroughly dry and acclimate.

Being NE Texas, I should be able to find some SYP soon enough around here. It could just be a temporary shortage in my area. Once I find what I want I can buy it and let it start acclimating in my garage.

As for my tool shortage, that will change soon enough. I do have enough tools now to get started, so I want to make the most of what I have and see what I can accomplish. I need a bench though to do much of anything. My repurposed computer desk is hardly adequate for guitar setups and repair, much less real woodworking.

Thanks again,
Dustin

[Dave Ring]

Better yet, you could buy a solidcore door from a used building materials dealer (such as Habitat for Humanity's Re-Stores) or, best of all, fish one out of a dumpster like I did.

[David Helm]

Just a short word about "hem-fir" and Doug fir. Hem-fir is a designation for Western Hemlock that has the same (nearly) strength characteristics as doug fir. Hem-fir is not an indication that it could be either wood. You will also only find (from the Northwest) hemlock used for pressure treated lumber. The Douglas Fir does not take (rejects) the treatment. Those treated 4X4s are most likely hemlock.

[Johnny Kleso]

Get some 2x4s, Gorilla Glue, Clamps and No.6 Hand Plane..

should not take more than 3 hours work planing the top flat both sides..
A No.6 will make short work of flatten a bench top..
TRIED AND TESTED FOR MORE THAN 200 YEARS :)