Drift Problems with Resaw King

[David Weaver]

Does anyone else have trouble with drift with a laguna resaw king blade?

I don't have any issues with any other blades on my saw, from the really junk stock blade to timberwolf blades.

But my resaw king wants to drift like crazy.

Guides are set with a dollar bill, adjusted right up to the gullet top and bottom. The blade drifts like crazy to the right using a pivot fence (no matter how it's fed) or the fence without a pivot point. Saw is a jet 18x, blade is tensioned as recommended to the full 1" setting (this is the only blade I have to tension to the indicator on the saw, the others don't drift just tensioning by feel).

If you're just resawing something thick in half, it's not a big deal, you can cut it freehand, but it's obviously a problem with veneers - the blade will quickly just drift right out through the cut.

Any ideas? I'd like to use this blade for resawing given the finish level it leaves, but not at the cost of wasting a lot of wood and leaving myself a lot of work.

[Pete Bradley]

Is it possible you damaged the teeth on one side? Good ways to do this are to tag the table insert somehow, or to have the teeth hit the guide.

Pete

[jerry cousins]

hi pete - do you set the fence for the blade drift and it still wanders all over the place?
jerry

[David Weaver]

Jerry - I'm assuming that was directed at me.

I haven't set the fence for drift yet because I can't get it to feed straight at any angle with the pivot fence. Is it wrong-headed to think that makes it not worthwhile to set the fence for drift?

[Jamie Buxton]

I used Resaw Kings for years. When they were freshly sharpened, they'd cut straight ahead all the time. They were eerie that way. With steel blades, I was accustomed to adjusting for drift angle, and it was weird to just not have to do that. However, when they got dull, one of the characteristics was that they'd start getting a drift angle. That was when they'd go back to Laguna for sharpening. (IIRC, sharpening the 145" blade for my saw was about $40, including shipping.)

[David Weaver]

This one's not got a lot of miles on it. Probably cut less than 100 bf or so of wood since new, it's always been offputting to use it for veneers so I haven't used it for anything other than freehand cuts. The harder the woods, the worse the drift, IIRC.

As far as I can see, none of the teeth are dinked.

[Jamie Buxton]

I've never been able to judge the teeth on a bandsaw blade by looking at them or touching them. The only reliable test is how the blade cuts. If it misbehaves, it is dull or damaged.

[Neil Brooks]

If it misbehaves, it is dull or damaged.

Like my stepson.

Whoops.

Never mind. As you were :)

[Travis Porter]

I found after using my resaw king for awhile that I needed to readjust the blade tracking. When I initially set it up, I had it running correctly, but as I used it a bit, it got off and was constantly hitting the thrust bearings. You might want to check to see if you are having the same issue.

[bradley strong]

One of the best days of my life was when I sold my Jet BS. Band saws are probably the trickiest of the tools in the shop to get set up right. Using a pivot fence for resawing is problematic at best. I now have a Laguna 18LT. I set the fence for the drift angle of the blade once and do nothing but saw thereafter. I cut veneer as thin as I want with my resaw king and Laguna BS. I just run it on the rip fence like a TS.

It's the set up of your BS that is likely the issue. My guess would be that the wheels are not coplanar (Jets are bad for this) or one of the tires is worn to one side. All BS blades drift. The wider the blade and the thinner the kerf, the more you notice it. If the drift angle is more than a few degrees, there's something wrong with the saw or the blade is dull. The tires may be too crowned for that wide of a blade.

[David Weaver]

Maybe there is too much crown, don't know.

the other blade I use for resaw is just a standard timberwolf. I've really had no other issues with the bandsaw, this is not the generation of saws that has the aluminum wheels, etc, and I think the wheels are coplanar or at least close. It's the next one with cast wheels, etc.

I've resawed veneer down to about a sixteenth with the timberwolf on the pivot fence, I like it a lot actually, it affords more control and allows you to avoid screwing around with the fence to adjust for drift. You can get an idea of where it cuts true on the pivot pretty quickly and just run it from there, as long as the pivot is square to the table top and parallel to the blade.

I guess I'll play with the drift adjustment on the fence a little. I can't justify the cost of a laguna saw, not even a chinese one. I don't resaw often enough. Maybe I'd be wise to just go back to using the timberwolf to resaw, and save the resaw king for ripping (I don't have a TS as of a couple of weeks ago).

[bradley strong]

If the tires are too crowned, the blade will bind in the kerf. If it used to work well, and now it doesn't, it's dull. I just had mine resharpened. Mine dulled trying to resaw a piece of apple with a branch inclusion. It acted the way you're describing after that. I am now saving it only for veneer. While it was out, I found that the 3 tpi hook blade did a fine job on everything else. It just takes a little more clean up after the cut.

[David Weaver]

It's always worked well ripping stuff 8/4 and thinner because I can keep the guides in close. It's always behaved the way I'm describing (when resawing something of any width), since new.

I may just not be noticing its desire to pull on thin stuff because the guides are closer.

Doesn't bind in the kerf, though.

[David Weaver]

Thanks for the replies guys, that gives me a little to chew on at least other than sitting around hating power tools.

Tomorrow night when I'm not charged with watching the kids, I'll give it a go.

[bradley strong]

The problem is in the band saw then. The thinner the stock, the further away from the upper wheel the cut is. I assume you are centering the blade on the upper wheel? The Jet I had had cast iron wheels, etc. and it still wasn't right. Having the wheels coplanar is everything to a band saw. A properly tuned BS barely needs guides at all.

Cutting straight is the biggest challenge for the BS. The thicker the material, the more you exploit the weaknesses of it.

It doesn't need to bind hard to deflect the cut. If the back of the blade touches anywhere inside the kerf, it will throw the cut off. The other blades you use probably have a thicker kerf due to the set of the teeth. The resaw king doesn't have any set to the teeth. They are only a few thousandths wider than the body of the blade. I would think it would be very hard to use with a pivot fence.

I know it's frustrating, but once you figure it out, you'll be glad you did. Being a tool mechanic is half of woodworking and finishing is the other half.

[David Weaver]

Yes, the blade is centered on the upper wheel.

[Robert Reece]

I doubt your Jet can properly tension a resaw king. Then you are asking your guides to do a lot of work and relying on perfect bandsaw alignment and a super sharp blade. Also your feed rate will determine how much the blade wants to deflect.

[Van Huskey]

Which saw? If it is a steel framed Jet (someone mentioned Jet) is it a triangle or square spine. What width RK? What do you have the saws tension gauge set to. Is it also barrelling in the cut?

[Lance Peck]

A dull ResawKing blade will like to wander back and forth through the cut.
The RK teeth may feel sharp even when they are not. But if your ResawKing blade is still sharp then there are a few things that you should check.

Do your guides support the width of the blade? The ResawKing blades are thin and need support from the guides at the back of the blade as well as the front.
I have found that a slight mis alignment of the upper guides will cause the RK blades to not cut straight. When you have the blade under tension the guide surface must be exactly
parallel to the side of the blade. Don't assume that the guides are properly alligned just because you have tightened the adjustment. Most likely the guides actually move from side to side (twist) as you adjust the cutting height. Once you have your height set check that the guide surface is parallel to the side of the blade. It needs to be exact to keep the thin blade from twisting. Unfortunately you need to check and adjust this everytime you change the guide height. This may be easier with Laguna ceranic guides than roller bearing guides. Once I found this alignment problem my ResawKing blades cut perfectly straight until they start to loose their sharpness edge. They won't stay sharp forever but while they are sharp they should make a perfect cut.

[ian maybury]

On the other hand even a small misalignment in the blade weld (in my limited experience - the back edge of what was a very highly recommended blade wasn't quite straight - but I've no experience with a Resaw King or even a carbide blade) can throw the tracking off badly too...

ian

[David Weaver]

I doubt your Jet can properly tension a resaw king.

I think it can probably tension it fine. This is the thin kerf resaw king, 1", not a bigger thicker blade. This is not the older jet that had a lot of flex in the frame, it's a stiffer version.


Which saw? If it is a steel framed Jet (someone mentioned Jet) is it a triangle or square spine.

Steel framed jet, square, but not the version of the saw that wasn't rigid. This one is comparable to any other new steel framed BS. It is tensioned to the 1" indicator. What is barreling? The cut wants to drift and ultimately if you don't move it from the fence and face it back into the blade, it will come out of the side of the veneer you're cutting. I usually tension a 3/4" blade to about the 3/8" indicator on the saw and have no issue.


Is it possible that it's my feeding? I usually only feed nasty stuff through it (cocobolo, etc) and not a whole lot of it, but since my TS is gone, it's (or whatever replaces it) going to have to do full duty. It cuts thin stock almost as smooth as a TS. In fact, I always hand plane edges off the TS, so I don't think it takes any more effort.
It's funny that the weld was mentioned, it did tick past the guides when it was new. I sanded the weld down flush with the band to eliminate that (I did not sand any of the band).

[Leigh Betsch]

I've got a coulpe of Resaw Kings and a couple of Kerf Kings. The RKs are 1" the KK's are 1 1/2. I tension the RK to 1 1/2 setting on my MM20 and the KKs I overshoot the 1 1/2 mark by a bit. I read someplace that a carbide blade should be tensioned one mark above the blade width. They cut very straight even when they are getting dull. They seem to dull rapidly and one of the KK's developed cracks and "exploded". But I don't have any problems getting them to track straight. I run them with the teeth hanging off the front of the wheel, per MM instructions, the MM has flat tires not crowned. Finish wise the RKs when new are about as good as my jointer, not as good as my TS and WWII blade. When they get dull the finish goes down rapidly but they still track straight, although the cut will get bowed in the center when very dull.
I'm not expert but I would suspect that they are under tensioned or just a bad blade for a Jet saw.

[David Weaver]

I think you guys are right about tension. I had them tensioned at the 1" mark. I corrected for drift, and the cut was better, but still not straight enough to be confident for veneers so I took the blade off and put on a 3/4" timberwolf again to make sure I'm not high or something (figure of speech, i'm not a substance abuser), and sure enough, it had about the same amount of drift (using the cutting to the line method), about the max my crappy saw fence tolerates. But, I cut a 3/4 inch thickness planed board into 5 clean veneers intentionally leaving the guides about 4 inches above the cut height. No problem, and that was tensioned at the 1/2" mark.

I think I'd rather plane the edges of my boards a second stroke than crank the tension handle all the way to 1 1/2", but next time I put the resaw king on, i'll tension it to the 1 1/2 inch mark on my saw, which is full tension, and see how it does. I am generally a hand tool woodworker, there is only so much screwing around with power tools that I can tolerate.

[Van Huskey]

You are on thr right track, tension it to at least 1.25" then try 1.5" since it prefers 25,000 psi compared to 15,000 for carbon blades. Barrelling is when the cut is curved IN the kerf which would be another indication your tension is low. Finally the RK is designed not to overfeed, but enough pressure could push it offline.

[David Weaver]

van, I was getting the barrelling you describe with it once it got off track. Or maybe it goes off track because of the barreling. I ran several boards through at the 1" indicator, a couple of them went OK, and then one board had a knot in it and got off at the knot.

It'd be nice if it's (the RK) not a a $175 boat anchor, but I went through all of my hardwood scrap last night trying different things, so I'll have to wait until I have more scrap to ramp up the tension with it.

[Van Huskey]

I am betting it is the tension, if not it may be time to give Laguna a call.

[ian maybury]

Inability to deliver enough tension was the issue that led to sale of my Scheppach 5 series saw (to a guy doing rough cutting only) when trying to get it to re-saw straight. I'd bought an often highly praised US made blade which had the weld misalignment referred to above - no doubt not typical. Having run out of saw based stuff to try I eventually found a slight wobble front to back in the blade. (it wasn't obvious since it was in the line of sight) Some (also highly recommended) UK sourced blades of the same nominal spec (TPI, width etc) ran true and solved the problem 100% - the saw was suddenly cutting straight as a die.

But only up to about 5in thickness. With exactly the same blade and with the guides correctly set no matter what I did beyond that thickness it persisted (despite 12in of vertical capacity) in drifting badly.

My personal conclusion was that the saw (as it seems is typical of many hobby/lighter duty saws) couldn't apply enough tension to the blade, this despite it being narrower than the listed max width, and being cranked to the max the tensioning spring would allow. The blade was wandering badly in the upper part of the cut.

The best theory I could come up with for what was going on was this: Once the cutting force approaches the blade tension (since the blade is pulled down through the cut from the bottom the load increases as more and more teeth engage) the run of blade above the workpiece may at worst have zero tension - or even some slack/belly. It'll certainly have much reduced tension in the upper run of the blade. Which explained why it wanted to wander from the top of the cut - the lower part of the blade transmitting the cutting force from the lower wheel is still tight.

The bad news on this is that the more aggressive the blade and the tougher the wood (the bigger the bite taken by each tooth), the more likely this is to happen on a given saw. Put it another way - to tension and run a blade properly a saw has to be able to apply enough tension to overcome not just the cutting force (which for a given blade will increase roughly in proportion to the depth of the cut - which is why deep re-sawing requires lots of frame strength/controlled deflection as well as enough vertical capacity) but also to properly tension the upper run of the blade. If not the upper run is left free to wander and deflect.

Remember that tension by holding a blade straight greatly increases its buckling/beam strength too.

Another issue in frame design has got to be that of how well it maintains the band wheels in alignment/in the same plane (also the guide post and guides) under this load. Frames by definition deflect under load (with the amount reducing as the stiffness increases), but if one or other wheel or guide tilts out of line as the load increases/varies as the cut engages and disengages then drifting is presumably inevitable then too.

Tipped blades have I guess the ability to not only be much more aggressive than the conventional types (longer pitch, wider tooth), the wider/thicker band also needs more tension than stock blades to hold it straight.

This leads into the other little problem common to all saw blades. That being the reality that once drift/misalignment of the cut starts, then the natural guiding effect of the flat blade back will be to tend to keep it going in that direction. So if your tension (effectively frame stiffness) is insufficient to prevent the blade twisting under cutting forces, or to pull it back in line before any significant divergence gets started then it's gone.

This is presumably why wider blades are not always the most straight cutting, and why the saw must be able to tension them. i.e. once the deflection gets past something fairly minimal the system of forces in play is almost certainly unstable, or divergent. Meaning that as the blade deflection increases it will feed forces back into the system that (once a certain point is reached) will equal and then quickly overwhelm whatever blade tension is available - and this will happen more quickly in a given system with a wider blade.

A final thought on blades. I suspect that the inherently more accurate and consistent setting of teeth that you presumably get when grinding a carbide blade is perhaps one reason why they tend to cut straight. But to the above point. Lots of blade tension (the more the merrier?) will presumably enable straight cutting even if there is a little side to side imbalance in a blade - by preventing the blade from deflecting. i.e. within the limits of the kerf crabbing/cutting from very slightly off to one side (as in the case of a table saw blade) probably becomes possible.

Maybe band saws will in future eventually end up with wire-like blades running enormously high levels of tension. :-) Or at least very narrow high strength blades relying almost entirely on massive tensioning applied by incredibly rigid frames to prevent deflection.

Anyway. Next episode follows when my Agazzani gets up and running...

Ian

[Mike Heidrick]

Dave, could you slowly increase the tension above 1" and see how it fares? Sam Blasco I believe is the one that told me not to trust the tension gauge values of my MM20 but rather use it as marker of where each blade needs to be. I slowly increased the tension on my RK to where I got great results. I am no bandsaw expert thoough and many here may have better advice. My method works for me.

Also is 1.5" the max of tension you can apply or just the last number printed on the gauge?

[David Weaver]

This is a bring-back of an old topic, but just a confirmation that through all phases of setup, the resaw king blade I have wanders no matter what. I don't have a TS, so accurate cuts from the bandsaw are necessary, and right now I'm making kitchen cabinets, so cutting all of the sticking accurately would be a wonderful thing.

So far in 7 years, this remains the only blade that doesn't cut right on my saw, a $175 complete...and I mean complete waste of money. I've gone through everything on this thread, and I can only conclude that either the blade design is poor for general use on some saws (meaning it needs something very specific from a saw, like tires with no crown at all, etc), and I can't believe that I'm the only person to have issues (and know I'm not after reading reviews at amazon).

I had set this blade aside for 2 1/2 years (back when I made this thread, I think I still had a TS and I just wanted to resaw), but with all of the sticking I'm cutting, it would be nice now to be able to use it since it does leave a smooth cut. Went through everything last night, used featherboards to make sure feed was consistent, etc, set and reset guides, tried on different positions on the tires, and even with a super slow feed, just ripping 4/4 material had 2-3 hundredths of drift. with moderate feed, no matter the drift setting on the fence, the blade went left or right quickly and became bound.

Yeah, I know, 2 to 3 hundredths is no big deal. But when it occurs over a couple of inches on a piece of sticking that you're trying to get accurately cut so you can M&T and end and have a square face frame, it's a big problem.

Not a rant, more just exasperation.

[Jamie Buxton]

..So far in 7 years, this remains the only blade that doesn't cut right on my saw,.. Not a rant, more just exasperation.

Blades that don't cut right are generally dull. Spend the $40 or so to get Laguna to sharpen the blade. Or throw it away. 7 years is too long to be exasperated.

[David Weaver]

I think throwing it away is the way it will go. It's behaved the way it's behaving now since the beginning, and it never really has felt sharp, but at the same time, with an almost square tooth, it would be unlikely that it would have that same sticking feeling on your fingers that a hook blade would have.

I think either the blade is defective, was never sharp, or is just a bad match for an asian saw. When laguna was gung ho about selling these when they introduced them, I wish they would've taken the time either to get the blades right or to know which saws they work on and which they don't.

[Glen Blanchard]

It would be interesting to see how that blade would cut on an Italian bandsaw.

[David Weaver]

Anyone with an italian bandsaw that would use a 137" blade is welcome to it.

[Glen Blanchard]

17" too short for my mm16. Dang it.

[John Coloccia]

I went through 2 or 3 RK blades until they sent me one that worked right. I have 2 of them here. I haven't tried the second one yet, but it had better work as well as this first one. Getting a working BS blade from them was one of the most frustrating things I'd ever gone through. I have to say, though, that now that I have a working blade, it cuts BEAUTIFULLY. The finish is incredible for a band saw.

Have you checked for a bad weld? That should be pretty obvious.

Maybe you just have a bad blade. Why not call them, explain the situation, and send it back to them. See if they can fix it or if they sent you a bad blade to begin with. It should cut dead straight, but it's not as sharp as something like a Woodslicer. A Woodslicer goes through wood like butter. The RK takes a little bit of pressure, but it stays sharp a LONG time.

[Andrew Joiner]

I would crank up the tension as high as you can get it that did miracles for me. I would still call Laguna and explain the problem if that doesn't work. The first resawking I got from them had 3 teeth tips ground off askew by the weld. They promply sent me a good blade.

I have a new Resaw King I got 3 years ago. It's 15/16" wide with 2(almost 3) TPI. The teeth are almost square and don't feel sharp at all. I tensioned it to 1'' on my saw gauge. I tested it a bit when I got it and was unimpressed with the smoothness of cut on 6" and wider resawn faces. The cuts were not as smooth as a glue joint rip table saw blade, not much smoother than a 1/2" timberwolf!

3 years later I sliced a 6" wide 12/4 quilted maple slab into near perfect 1/16" veneers with the same blade. Both faces are smoother than most of my table saw blades! The set up was the same as my tests 3 years ago, except I did tension the blade more. This time I tensioned the blade as much as I could by hand on the tension wheel of my Grizzly 21" saw. The saw gauge read just over 1-1/8".

[lowell holmes]

Michael Fortune has recommended blades from BC Saw in Canada. I only have a 14" Jet, but I have used, gone away from, and now back to the BC sawblades.

I think their blades are Starret. I was having problems withdrift and absolutely couldn't resaw.

After returning to the BC blades, those issues have gone away. I don't know if they would help you, but their prices are very competitive and it wouldn't cost you that much to try one.

You might want to check into them.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, Iturra has starrett, and I think I might be able to get the starretts locally, too. Any thoughts on whether any of the bimetal blades, etc, leave a decent finish, or do they leave a fairly coarse finish?

[David Weaver]

I would crank up the tension as high as you can get it that did miracles for me. I would still call Laguna and explain the problem if that doesn't work. The first resawking I got from them had 3 teeth tips ground off askew by the weld. They promply sent me a good blade.

I have a new Resaw King I got 3 years ago. It's 15/16" wide with 2(almost 3) TPI. The teeth are almost square and don't feel sharp at all. I tensioned it to 1'' on my saw gauge. I tested it a bit when I got it and was unimpressed with the smoothness of cut on 6" and wider resawn faces. The cuts were not as smooth as a glue joint rip table saw blade, not much smoother than a 1/2" timberwolf!

3 years later I sliced a 6" wide 12/4 quilted maple slab into near perfect 1/16" veneers with the same blade. Both faces are smoother than most of my table saw blades! The set up was the same as my tests 3 years ago, except I did tension the blade more. This time I tensioned the blade as much as I could by hand on the tension wheel of my Grizzly 21" saw. The saw gauge read just over 1-1/8".






Yeah, tension wise I was all over the map last night. I pushed it past the 1 1/2" mark on the tension gauge ever so slightly. knowing that indicator might not actually amount to much, I can only describe the normal setup as such - I usually take a 3/4" timberwolf and tension it between the 3/8" and 1/2" marks and it tracks dead straght as fast as I can feed the saw.

The RK that I have is the thin kerf one.

[Chris Padilla]

I think you have a bad RK...simple as that. Resawing consistently is the true test of a good blade IMO but then again, I mostly use my MM20 for resawing. After I bent up my Lenox Trimaster (carbide...competitor to Laguna's RK) and had it fixed, it never really cut the same nor as smoothly and cleanly but it was too pricey a blade to toss out and it still gives a good cut...just not as good pre-bending. :)

I dunno about tension. I ignore the gauge on my MM20 and tension until I can't deflect the blade more than a 1/4" and then I crank it a tad more. :D

I don't believe in drift, either, and feel it can be dialed out of any saw although I'm sure there are saws that could be difficult to dial in.

There is another blade you could try that doesn't cost too much. I am almost 95% certain that it is the same blade David Marks (Woodworks) uses on his big blue bandsaw to cut veneers and such. It is a Lenox Diemaster2--a bi-metal blade. I have one that is 1/2", 6 tpi (yes, six teeth per inch), and hook style. I don't think it would cost you more than $40 for this blade in your size. I have been very impressed with its performance in cutting veneers. They are not as smooth as the Trimaster but the DM2 has a thinner kerf so it is one of those "half dozen, six of these" kinda things. Most people that I've recommended this blade to have been very happy.

[David Weaver]

Chris, thanks for the suggestion. I have done some resawing with the TW blades (which worked surprisingly well, all the way cutting veneers literally the week I got the bandsaw), but as I generally use the bandsaw infrequently and only when I can't rip by hand because of time constraints, a 6 tpi blade would probably be a good solution.

Maybe it's unreasonable for me to think the saw should cut within 5 thousandths or so on width on 4/4 material, but I don't believe that to be unreasonable with a heavy fence and a grip tite. I only wish my saw was an MM20, though!

(on the positive side, I do think the laguna blade is about to go out in a flat rate box. If it works on someone else's saw, that's great).

[Erik Loza]

When David Marks did some work for us, I remember that his blade of choice for all the strips in his bent-lam projects was the Die-Master. Prior to his workshop, I had never seen one before. Looked like a hacksaw blade. I asked him why he didn't use a carbide instead. His response was, "Because I have to buy them, myself", LOL. Anyway, the Die-Master gave really good results on the Purple Heart and all that other weird stuff he works with. Obviously, you will have to play around with the feed rate with that many teeth per inch. I'd give it a shot.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Weaver]

After this conversation, I did order a diemaster II, one in the thin kerf setup and with a 6/10 variable pitch to err on the side of a clean cut. However well it works, it will beat the frustration I was dealing with last night.

[Chris Padilla]

When David Marks did some work for us, I remember that his blade of choice for all the strips in his bent-lam projects was the Die-Master. Prior to his workshop, I had never seen one before. Looked like a hacksaw blade. I asked him why he didn't use a carbide instead. His response was, "Because I have to buy them, myself", LOL. Anyway, the Die-Master gave really good results on the Purple Heart and all that other weird stuff he works with. Obviously, you will have to play around with the feed rate with that many teeth per inch. I'd give it a shot.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

That is nice to have it verified. I watched closely on all the Woodworks that involved his bandsaw and that is what I came up with as I hunted around.

[Bill White]

"I've resawed veneer down to about a sixteenth with the timberwolf on the pivot fence" Your quote.
And the answer is........? BLADE PROBS.
Don't wear yourself out with a goofy blade. Call 'em, send it back, whatever.
Just my thoughts.
Bill

[David Weaver]

Bill, you're right. I should've come to the conclusion before wasting three hoursand running through a bunch of sticking trying to get something good last night when I should really have been woodworking!

I found a taker for the blade, someone else into self torture like me. And you're exactly right about my previous quote - resawing with everything else, even the dull junky stock blade that left an ugly finish - has been uneventful. So you'd figure just ripping/sawing down rough 4/4 would be a walk in the park.

[Charlton Wang]

Just to add another data point to this thread (I know it's old)...

I actually only recently began using the Resaw King blades that I got from Laguna via the SMC Deals. These blades are 6 years old but I'm only getting around to using them now. Like David, no matter what I do, these things won't cut straight. I've tried all manner of tracking, adjusting the fence for drift, etc. but somehow, after 3-4" into the cut, this thing just will NOT cut straight. It always drifts badly to the left. I was actually beginning to suspect that maybe the teeth on this thing were ground incorrectly but I have no way to test for that. Maybe Laguna had a bad batch around 2010?

Going back to a plain old Tufftooth blade seems to be okay. Whodathunk?

[Erik Loza]

...no matter what I do, these things won't cut straight. I've tried all manner of tracking, adjusting the fence for drift, etc. but somehow, after 3-4" into the cut, this thing just will NOT cut straight. It always drifts badly to the left...

Inadequate blade tension is my gut reaction.

Erik

[Charlton Wang]

Inadequate blade tension is my gut reaction.

Erik

Hm...I'm already near the max indicator on the LT16-3000. I worry about going completely fully to max knowing well that this isn't an LT16HD.

Thanks,
Charlton

[Chris Padilla]

If someone wants to send me their "horrible" RK blade, I'd like to try it out on my band saw and see what all the fuss is about. My Diemaster2 is still going strong and just about the only blade I use anymore. And Eric, since the dated posting in this thread, I have actually been to David Marks' shop (taking classes) and did verify this is indeed the blade he has on his big blue (Delta) band saw.

[Charlton Wang]

BTW, I'm sad to hear you've left SCM (or maybe I should be happy that you're moving on). Certainly your departure would be a strike to the appeal of Minimax. I'm considering the S400p but never heard back from SCM here in Toronto. :P

All the best.

[Charlton Wang]

If your bandsaw can take a 132" blade and if I visit the Bay Area sometime, I'll bring it to you.

Charlton

[Andrew Hughes]

Just to add another data point to this thread (I know it's old)...

I actually only recently began using the Resaw King blades that I got from Laguna via the SMC Deals. These blades are 6 years old but I'm only getting around to using them now. Like David, no matter what I do, these things won't cut straight. I've tried all manner of tracking, adjusting the fence for drift, etc. but somehow, after 3-4" into the cut, this thing just will NOT cut straight. It always drifts badly to the left. I was actually beginning to suspect that maybe the teeth on this thing were ground incorrectly but I have no way to test for that. Maybe Laguna had a bad batch around 2010?

Going back to a plain old Tufftooth blade seems to be okay. Whodathunk?

Hi Charlton,I wonder if your blades are Stellite tipped.Anyways they probably are not sharpened correctly.
I have a R k blade the current C4 carbide tip and it cuts great smoother then a new Woodmaster ct but slower.
I also liked the stellite tipped blades they were awesome.
I think you know what you should do.

Aj

[Charlton Wang]

Hey Aj,

They are Stellite for sure. I remember that when I got them, there was a lot of "debate" because it seemed as though Laguna was implying that they were carbide-tipped but people were calling them out on that. I wasn't even aware that RK blades now come with C4 carbide. Perhaps that addresses the longevity issue that many people seemed to levy against the blade.

Cheers,
Charlton

[Chris Padilla]

If your bandsaw can take a 132" blade and if I visit the Bay Area sometime, I'll bring it to you.

CharltonAh, yes...good point! I have an MM20...168" (+/- something I can't remember) is what mine takes. :)

[Charlton Wang]

Inadequate blade tension is my gut reaction.

Erik

I'm embarrassed to report back here but...

I cranked the tension to basically as high as it would go and the bandsaw didn't buckle. This seems to have improved things rather dramatically though I haven't had a chance to do any rigorous testing. I guess that whole "deflection of 1/4" at 6" down from 9:00 of the wheel" doesn't always work. My bandsaw has no blade width markers on the gauge so it's pretty much just a guessing game. I somehow missed the post from Andrew Joiner where he suggested cranking the tension up...

Thanks for the help/advice everyone.

Charlton

[Doug Hepler]

David,

If your saw is cutting OK with your other blades, and you think you know how to adjust a blade, then most likely you do know how to adjust a blade. Therefore, its probably not your saw and its probably not you. That leaves the blade. From what you describe -- it cuts at a sharp angle -- the set of the teeth is probably not symmetrical. I have had that problem with Laguna blades (not the Resaw King). The blade I ordered with my 14/12 when it was new did that. Since I had no experience with the saw I did not know what was wrong and chased my tail for quite a while. Then I got another blade and presto! no more drift. You already know that the saw cuts straight with other blades.

You could check the position of the blade on the wheel and check the co-planarity of the wheels but in all likelihood it's the set of the blade.

Doug

[Van Huskey]

I'm embarrassed to report back here but...

I cranked the tension to basically as high as it would go and the bandsaw didn't buckle. This seems to have improved things rather dramatically though I haven't had a chance to do any rigorous testing. I guess that whole "deflection of 1/4" at 6" down from 9:00 of the wheel" doesn't always work. My bandsaw has no blade width markers on the gauge so it's pretty much just a guessing game. I somehow missed the post from Andrew Joiner where he suggested cranking the tension up...

Thanks for the help/advice everyone.

Charlton

No reason to be embarrassed it is comon among hobbyists to under-tension blades, especially carbide blades. Further, many of the shortcuts to tensioning blades are based on small Delta 14" saws and their clones along with carbon steel blades, it is a shortcut since we should actually be using a strain gauage and setting it correctly (or as close as a particular saw will get, and optimally never using a blade a particular saw can't tension properly). Yes strain gauges can be expensive but most everyone has some small clamps and a set of caplipers. Google homemade bandsaw tension gauge and enter the world of Young's modulus and the linear elastic properties of steel.

Bandsaws should NOT come with width indications on the tension scale, it is useless, and steers one wrong more often than right. It should only be used to record and re-tension a specific type/size of blade not to determine the correct tension. Consider two 1/2" blades, one a carbon blade and one a carbide blade. The carbide blade may have a significantly larger cross section as well and needing nearly twice the actual tension so the difference on the bandsaw tension scale for those two blades may be vastly different when they are tensioned correctly. Now with time you can develop a touch that gets you very close BUT you can't read about that touch on a forum, in a book or even watch a video and get it right, you have to physically push on a accurately tensioned blade many times to develop this feel. If you don;t run a bandsaw everyday they make (or you can make) strain gauges.

People have all sorts of issues with bandsaws and like anything else you have to eliminate one variable at a time, especially with bi-metal and carbide blades tension is usually a good place to start but until one is able to get a good approximation of the actual tension on the blade it is just a crap shoot.

This issue has become more of a problem in the last decade or so since smaller lighter bandsaws are being built with serious resaw height, significant power boosts and carbide blades are being made with more flexible and thinner backers so that they can run on these saws. Add to this tensionning methods left over from long before these changes are still being repeated, yeah they worked for someone for 50 years but it is a new game now.

[Van Huskey]

David,

If your saw is cutting OK with your other blades, and you think you know how to adjust a blade, then most likely you do know how to adjust a blade. Therefore, its probably not your saw and its probably not you. That leaves the blade. From what you describe -- it cuts at a sharp angle -- the set of the teeth is probably not symmetrical. I have had that problem with Laguna blades (not the Resaw King). The blade I ordered with my 14/12 when it was new did that. Since I had no experience with the saw I did not know what was wrong and chased my tail for quite a while. Then I got another blade and presto! no more drift. You already know that the saw cuts straight with other blades.

You could check the position of the blade on the wheel and check the co-planarity of the wheels but in all likelihood it's the set of the blade.

Doug

First the RK doesn't have a set, though it can be ground incorrectly and that has happened. However, more often than not it is a lack of tension which will let the blade wander and barrel in the cut. The problem is even if someone thinks they know how to adjust a saw unless they have objectively tested the tension or have a very good finger you likely don;t have the correct tension. If someone has other blades that cut straight it still may be a tension issue since blades take different absolute pressues to have the same tension. In the end there can still be user error unless the tension is accurately tested and the saw can provide enough absolute pressure for the particular blade, until those factors are ruled out you are still guessing about the accuracy of the grind on a carbide tipped bandsaw blade.

[David Kumm]

When you start using $150-200 blades, it pays to find an objective way to measure tension and experiment with what the blade prefers and what the saw will deliver. The RK has a thinner band than the Trimaster so it tensions more easily but also needs that tension to excel. I run my 1" Trimasters at 25000-30000 as that is the sweet spot for my saw. Every saw has its quirks and you will find that even relying on the machine gauge position is problematic and only approximate. I have saws in two locations so I verify my gauges against each other for both the numbers and the repeatibility.344595 Dave

[Charlton Wang]

First the RK doesn't have a set, though it can be ground incorrectly and that has happened. However, more often than not it is a lack of tension which will let the blade wander and barrel in the cut. The problem is even if someone thinks they know how to adjust a saw unless they have objectively tested the tension or have a very good finger you likely don;t have the correct tension. If someone has other blades that cut straight it still may be a tension issue since blades take different absolute pressues to have the same tension. In the end there can still be user error unless the tension is accurately tested and the saw can provide enough absolute pressure for the particular blade, until those factors are ruled out you are still guessing about the accuracy of the grind on a carbide tipped bandsaw blade.

Everything you've said here is basically true about me. :)

[Van Huskey]

Everything you've said here is basically true about me. :)


Like most of us you have been led down the primrose path of saws with tension gauges marked with blade widths and antiquated tensioninng techniques repeated by magazine authorities and forums. Many of the experts have that sense of feel that doesn't translate well to other people, things like deflect the blade with a moderate push x amount y distance from the guides, while they might get reasonably repeatable results it is crazy to think someone reading the article for instruction can repeat it and those learning from the article are less likely to immediately recognize a cut caused by low tension then will run off chasing another issue (and gods forbid start cranking on the lower wheel adjustment trying to reach co-planer nirvana) then after a day or so of pulling, pushing, twisting and retwisting every adjustment on the saw they end up introducing so many variables in the saw it would take a reasonably astute bandsawer hours to put back right.

I get the idea of trying to communicate shortcuts but like doing math using a calculator it is important to understand the slow methodical way first, there is enough voodoo in bandsaws (as Dave pointed out each machine has its quirks) it is important to take a scientific/repeatable approach to those variables you actually can. When I see or read flutter, I generally shudder. Keep in mind one doesn't have test tension every time on a saw with a scale (most old industrial saws have no scale but you can measure coil compression if you like). Just do it carefully one time, keep good records and when you put that blade on OR replace it with the exact same model blade just refer to your notes for the tension level. I keep a little tag on all my blades when stored with all the model/length/tension info and while the blade is on the saw it stays on the back upper blade cover under a fridge magnet.

[Erik Loza]

Charlton, just my 2-cents, so feel free to do with it as you please. Yes, it is possible those blades are dull and yes, it's possible the teeth are damaged or whatever but this really sounds like a tension issue.

If I were in your shoes, I would put one of those blades on there and keep cranking up the tension until the blade either cuts straight or until it snaps, whichever comes first. 100% serious. That way, you rule out the possibility that your saw cannot tension the blade adequately (which I think also might be a possibility). Personally, I have never used an RK blade (always wanted to but Lenox carbides were cheaper and have done everything we needed, so...), so not sure what laguna calls out as far as correct tension but my feeling is that you don't have a "baseline" for what blade will/won't work on your saw at this point and I'd want to establish that first. You didn't say what width RK you have but if it's anything like a Lenox carbide, that's going to be a ton of pressure to get it to cut straight and there are more machines that can't do that, than can. Or, as Chris suggested, go with a Lenox Die-Master II. That's an easy blade to use that give's carbide-like results if you use it properly. Best of luck,

Erik

[Andrew Hughes]

The RK blade is something like .025 so it really doesn't take a heavy saw to pull it tight to make a very good cut.
Think about all the 14/12 saw Laguna sells now with that blade.
I don't really believe in a 14 inch wheel boasting a Resaw cut above 7 inches.
But its somehow getting done out there.
Before I bought my B20/20 I had a 16Lt from Laguna.
I out grew it and don't miss the aggravation of using small thin bands on that saw.
,035 thick bands cut like poop on that 16Lt.But anything around .025 or less was fine.
I take very good care of my B20/20 always cleaning the saw and blade.Something I didn't do with the 16Lt but I hated that saw.

Aj

[David Kumm]

My ACM LT 18 was pretty average with any carbide blade over .025" as well. Dave

[Charlton Wang]

Hi Erik,

I basically cranked to the max and it seems like the cut is good now. The blade is a 3/4" blade which Laguna was selling on deal here at SMC (two for $150). I've never cranked my bandsaw to the max because none of my other blades have seemingly needed this much tension (even though most of them are 0.025" bands) but this is the only "carbide" blade I've used. Now I know just how much tension is needed.

Thanks for the help!

Charlton

[David Kumm]

I would also take two precautions. Check the spring and make sure it is not bottomed out. If you compress it all the way, back off 1/4 turn. Second, try not to feed so fast that the back bearing spins fast. The heat build up shortened the life of my carbide blades and caused ( I believe ) hairline cracks at the gullet that eventually broke the band. I don't have scientific evidence but since I began tensioning enough to avoid both problems I've yet to break my first blade. Before it occurred fairly frequently. Dave

[Charlton Wang]

Good points, Van. Not sure how I missed this post.

Cheers,
Charlton

[Raymond Seward]

I have a 14Twelve Laguna BS and a Resaw King blade.....from the first time I used it it has worked FLAWLESSLY. I was actually dumbfounded at first having moved from an old Delta 14" BS. I set the tension per the gauge on the inside,,,,the ceramic guides as per the manual and it slices oak like butter....absolutely no drift....just my experience. I'm more than pleased.

[les winter]

Where can I find that deal on the RK, please?

[Charlton Wang]

I think the deal is long gone. It was more than 6 years ago.

[Raymond Seward]

Where can I find that deal on the RK, please?

Rockler just sent me a 20% off coupon....I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) everyone on their mailing list got one. with that you could order one from them....that's how I got my RK

[Van Huskey]

Rockler just sent me a 20% off coupon....I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) everyone on their mailing list got one. with that you could order one from them....that's how I got my RK

Thats how I got my Driftmaster Fence @20% off a couple of years ago. The only issue with Rockler and the RK is they only carry the blades that fit the Laguna saws they sell, for other lengths you have to go to Laguna direct, they sell a lot on eBay as well but last time I checked their prices were equal or higher on eBay.