question on finishing cherry

[jason thigpen]

i'm finishing up a greene & greene style frame out of cherry. i plan to do a few coats of BLO, followed with shellac and then paste wax to finish it off. i wanted to set the cherry out in the sun for a few hours to get some color on it. should this be done before putting the BLO on it? or would it be ok to put BLO on first, then set it out? i wasn't to sure how the BLO would affect UV penetration, if it would at all.

[Scott Holmes]

Makes no difference. BLO may bubble out if it's not completely cured.

[Casey Gooding]

I always do the BLO prior to putting it out in the sun. Don't know if it helps the "tan" along or not. That's just the way I've always done it.

[Jim Becker]

I oil first and then let the piece bask on the beach... :D

BTW, you only need a single application of the oil. There is no benefit from multiple applications.

[Jack Clark]

Just wondering if any of you experienced cherry finishers have tried Target's clear stain base in lieu of regular BLO on cherry? It's supposed to be derived from linseed oil, but much more convenient to use. In reading a few posts on Target's forum, I get the impression it dries much faster too. Here's the description from Target:

"The Ultima-WR Clear Base (WR400xx) can be used as a "Danish-Oil" type finish, bringing out the natural color tones of domestic and exotic woods without the introduction of dyes or pigments. Again, due to the emulsified linseed oil backbone, the Clear Base will cure and age to a soft amber tone, identical to linseed oil in turpentine but without the flammability or combustibility issues inherent in the older blends."

[Scott Holmes]

Is 24 hours really too long. BLO will cure in about a day, I'm in Houston and it can be humid I will sometimes wait 2 days. I guessing the extra cost of the Target stuff would have me using good old BLO all by itself. No real advantage and it probably doesn't pop the grain as much as the BLO.

[Jack Clark]

Yup, it's definitely pricey!

[Chris Padilla]

I like to think of BLO as an oil stain. It is almost always the first thing slopped on my projects. :)

[Bob Wingard]

Forget the linseed oil ... get some of Charles Neil's Blotch Control ... apply two light coats ... apply dye of your choosing to attain desired color ... topcoat with finish of choice. Dye can be as light or dark as you desire .. with NO blotching .. and NO oily crud in your wood.

[Jim Becker]

apply dye of your choosing to attain desired color

AAAAAAaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! (He holds up silver cross....) Sorry, Bob, I couldn't resist. I'm a member of the "Church of Never Staining/Dying Cherry Because It's Sinful". :o

Seriously, a large number of us love the look of BLO as a first finishing step with cherry. And I cannot say I've had any issue with the oil "clogging up" the wood or anything like that. My standard finish regimen is BLO, de-waxed shellac and a water borne top coat. (the latter two steps are sprayed)

[Bob Wingard]

So ... by using linseed oil & shellac to color your wood to your liking ... it's somehow wrong for me to use the Blotch Control & dye to get my projects to my or my customer's liking ??? I am currently building another Federal Style Cherry Bookcase, and this young lady wants it to be a medium/dark brown, knowing full well that, in time, it will redden & darken to some extent. I just finished the dye job a few days ago and when she saw it, she was ecstatic. To each his own ... I just find the Blotch Control & dye to be very predictable & maneuverable ... able to match old solid lumber with new, pink veneered plywood. It also makes sapwood disappear, which is something linseed oil could never do. If I used your oil/shellac/latex on this project, the color variation would simply look like hell. Dyes are SO easy to use once you get used to them, and you can enhance grain & color with a pale washcoat of yellow/amber or reduce the intensity of red with a light tint of green. They are so flexible & predictable, which is something you'll never achieve with linseed oil.

[Pete McMahon]

AAAAAAaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! (He holds up silver cross....) Sorry, Bob, I couldn't resist. I'm a member of the "Church of Never Staining/Dying Cherry Because It's Sinful". :o

Seriously, a large number of us love the look of BLO as a first finishing step with cherry. And I cannot say I've had any issue with the oil "clogging up" the wood or anything like that. My standard finish regimen is BLO, de-waxed shellac and a water borne top coat. (the latter two steps are sprayed)

Jim, Since all cherry is not created equal,would you accept a possibly inferior look just maintain the gospel? I've always viewed cherry as a wood that is a joy to manipulate with subtle color. You do the same with BLO.
So the question is why is it OK to color with oil and not a chemical or dye or stain? I know the obvious answer is "it gives a natural look" On the other end of the spectrum in restoration, cherry often needs assistance to blend with it's surroundings.

BTW, how do you drink your coffee? I drink it black; it should NEVER have cream and sugar. It takes away from the natural flavor.

[Jim Becker]

Pete, I agree that all cherry isn't created equal. But you may have noticed that I have from time to time said something to the effect, "The first step in finishing is choosing your material (wood)". I try very hard to select my lumber to be compatible for both figure and color. That takes time and sometimes results in some extra expense, but it's noticeable in the end result.

For some reason, both you and Bob seem to be assuming that I use the oil to "color" the wood. That's not why I use it. I use it to accentuate the figure as it absorbs into the varying densities of the wood...because I like it that way. Some folks think that's a method to create "blotch"...and if they don't like the look, so be it. I use the oil because I like what it does to the cherry, walnut, etc., I'm working with from a figure standpoint. I use the de-waxed shellac as a barrier coat to insure adhesion of my intended top-coat which is almost always a water borne finish. If I was using an oil based varnish, I wouldn't bother with the shellac. That said, the oil does impart some color to the wood. It's the nature of oil--and oil based finishes--to do that. But it's minimal. The shellac I use is also very light in color so there is minimal contribution to the color from the one or two very thin sprayed coats of that material.

To be clear, I have no problem...zero problem...with anyone choosing to use a dye or stain on cherry or any other species. My comment above was intended to be a light-hearted reference to my own personal preference which is to not use dye or stain on cherry. And I'm not alone in that preference just as folks who like to use these colorants are also not alone in that opinion. The bottom line is the end result...if the worker and the "client" are happy...all is good.

Coffee? I'm a latté drinker. Tea I drink without any additives, however. Ok, occasionally a little honey when I have a cold or something. :)

[Chris Padilla]

Regarding the dying question, sometimes you just can't get the colors in the wood you want despite matching the species. It happens all the time. Cherry is a good example, walnut can be even tougher. I ended up with reddish walnut and chocolately walnut and I (okay, my wife) really wanted the darker chocolately color. Dye to the rescue and I have to admit it did an admiral job considering it was my first foray into using dyes. I chose Behlen's NGR dye and slopped it all over my project and suddenly it all matched very nicely and uniformly and came out spectacular. It has made me a big believer in using this tool in future projects.

[Jim Becker]

Chris, I use dye a lot to color wood, particularly poplar. (There is a good article on dyes in the current issue of Fine Woodworking, as a matter of fact) I just don't generally use it on cherry. Nor do I generally use it on the air dried walnut I prefer because I want the wonderful variation in color that it brings to my projects. Now, notice I used the word "generally". While my preference is not to dye these particular species, I have done it when I felt the specific need to do so. In the case of one cherry project long ago, I had no way to get additional material from the same source and I had a need to use a particular long board for a component. I used dye to deal with the color mismatch that resulted from having to use that particular board. I've experimented with dye on some walnut turnings just for grins.

It's really great that we all have so many options!