Woodriver side rabbet question?

[Steve Stack]

All right, now that I'm started, another question. The new WR side rabbet is supposed to be based on the Preston/Record design. My question is do you have to sharpen the two irons at a different angle? Having never seen one in person, it appears that this design has one iron laid over the top of the other in a criss cross pattern which to me would require different angles in sharpening. My other question is are both irons set and ready to use at all times with only a change in the depth stop to change orientation? This looks like an economical solution to a side rabbet plane since it is not used every day and I could use my big $ for a LV shoulder plane or LAJ. Just trying to make the most of my Xmas $, do ya'll think this might work?
Thanks, Steve

[David Weaver]

Is there a picture of it somewhere, is it in a catalog?

I just goofed through their website and couldn't find it. I see two chisel planes that have the comment that the blades are Mn65 steel. Does anyone have any clue what that is? Does it have something to do with manganese?

[David Weaver]

Best I can find out about my own question is that it's silicon manganese high carbon steel.

Shows up in saws and knives from china.

then again, most people will buy a chisel plane and never find much occasion to use it for anything other than glue lines, anyway.

[Steve Stack]

David, I can't find it on the I-net either but, no it's not the chisel plane, it's a side rabbet based on the Record 2506S design as described in the Dec 2010 catalog pg 2C. Since it's not an everyday user I thought it may be a place to skimp if there is such a thing.
Thanks. Steve

[Johnny Kleso]

The bedding angles are different so the bevel angles would have to be different to have the same cutting angle...

[Jim Koepke]

The only thing I can find about it is on the FWW site:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/30695/iwf-alert-woodriver-planes-take-three

My thoughts on this are that I do like my Stanley #98 & 99 side rabbets. There is a longer nose piece that is good for registration on most work. The nose piece can be flipped or removed for close work.

The depth stops are very handy. When adjusting a lot of dados, it would be inconvenient to have to keep switching the depth stop each time a change of side was wanted.

I am not sure where the Wood River tools are made, but I like to support businesses that are providing work for American workers. Of course, opinions vary on this point.

The Veritas side rabbet at LV is only $129 if you like two in one design. It aslo appears to be better designed than the WR. That is about the price you would be lucky to score a pair of Stanley side rabbets.

What is the price of the Wood River side rabbet?

jtk

[Pam Niedermayer]

Is there a picture of it somewhere, is it in a catalog?

I just goofed through their website and couldn't find it. I see two chisel planes that have the comment that the blades are Mn65 steel. Does anyone have any clue what that is? Does it have something to do with manganese?

I can't even find their website anymore. Stupid search engines.

Pam

[Steve Stack]

Jim, yes you have to change the depth stop just like the LV side rabbet and I realize it is not in the same league as the LV but since it is a limited use plane, I figured it would be a better place to save a $ than elsewhere. I also want a skew block and a shoulder plane and I thought these would be he better choice for the higher $ investment. Just curious about the workings and adjustments for this style of side rabbet plane.
Dang ya'll are helpful, Steve

[Roger Davis IN]

Note that the side rabbet plane is listed on page 2C in the Dec. 2010 catalog. Click on the "Catalog" link in the top center of the Woodcraft homepage to access it.

[David Weaver]

David, I can't find it on the I-net either but, no it's not the chisel plane, it's a side rabbet based on the Record 2506S design as described in the Dec 2010 catalog pg 2C. Since it's not an everyday user I thought it may be a place to skimp if there is such a thing.
Thanks. Steve

I see it now. You could easily trace the profile onto two pieces of scrap.

I've never used one of that design. You could always send it back if you don't like it, I think they have a generous design.

[george wilson]

I deleted my post because the rabbett plane blades are made of T 10 tool steel,which is a high carbon steel which should be fine,unless it was not hardened correctly.

I didn't read about the Mn 65 chisel plane blades. Mn 65 sounds like manganese steel with ONLY .65% carbon in it,which is VERY LOW,and wouldn't stay sharp long regardless of its hardness. Low wear resistance is not the same thing as hardness. It takes MORE carbon to have better wear resistance,or more alloys.

The side rabbett plane is about $59.95. It should be fine IF the machining is o.k..

[Jim Koepke]

Looking at the picture in the catalog, it looks like the blades are very short. This would make them hard to adjust.

There is a Record 2506, pre depth stop, for sale on ebay, auction 260701685723

There is also a Preston 1369 for sale at an exorbitant price, 330498572574. It does not appear to have a depth stop either, but the Preston is the only side rabbet plane I know of that has threaded adjusters. One blade has the adjuster hidden and is accessed from the back side.

These are mostly listed for comparison to the Wood River.

When planing to only use a tool a little, one often finds it gets used a lot for drawer bottom grooves and such.

The Stanley #79 is also a good tool for this kind of work.

jtk

[Charles Goodnight]

The Stanley #79 is also a good tool for this kind of work.

jtk

Yes, have you seen what these things are commanding on ebay? Might as well get the LV side rabbet plane. It would cost only a little more, it looks like a better plane, and it would come tuned up.

[Charles Goodnight]

for an inexpensive side rabbet plane check out this:http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/handplanes/179808.jpg

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/kunz79siderabbetplane.aspx

From their description it sounds like what you get out of the box is a long way from being useful, but with a bit of tuning it might be a good plane.

[David Weaver]

Yikes. Each of my stanley 79s were about $55. People should be able to find them for that. I see completed listings on ebay for a little more but you can find them places other than ebay.

I like them best of all of the rabbet planes because they have a depth stop and are big enough to get a good grip. You can avoid the hassle of having to adjust both irons all the time when you switch to cut with one or the other by just having two of them instead of one. They are still as cheap or cheaper than a good pair of 98/99 planes, and known function.

I have had very poor luck with everything I've gotten from kunz, some of it is barely passable as "tools".

[Matt Radtke]

I'd have to hold the WoodRiver in my hand, but that seems like a fair price--at least in the same ballpark as a 79.

IF I liked it, I could buy two and have a poor-mans version of 98/99.

[Jim Koepke]

Yes, have you seen what these things are commanding on ebay?

Looking at the "Buy It Now" prices makes me wish I didn't sell mine a while ago. Looking at the completed sales tells a different story.



I'd have to hold the WoodRiver in my hand, but that seems like a fair price--at least in the same ballpark as a 79.

IF I liked it, I could buy two and have a poor-mans version of 98/99.

I would want to not only hold it, I would want to give it a try on small piece of wood. It should work on the edge of a piece of wood to take a smooth shaving. This is how mine are used to check blade settings after sharpening.

The catalog picture may be just a rendition that is not accurate about the blade lengths. Though it does look the same in the FWW picture. If that is the design, it looks like it would be difficult to adjust the blades.

Even if you only plan to use this occasionally, if it is difficult to use, you will use it even less.

It might be worth waiting. If there is a flaw in the design, it will likely be addressed to make a better product.

If you do get to handle one, please let us know what you discover.

jtk

[Steve Stack]

Well, still haven't made up my mind but my thoughts still are, reasonable price, limited use, and at least for me, I have had good luck with WR stuff. If I get one I will post back and since my daughter will be home on break she can help me do pix.
Thanks, Steve

[James Taglienti]

On a side note, that shorter Woodriver chisel plane (i'd call it a #97 1/4?) looks awesome- just like what I've been dreaming of as I slowly slice glue from the inside corners of cabinets. Anyone have one they can comment on?>

[Tony Zaffuto]

I got a small LN chisel plane and, to tell the truth, I hardly reach for it. It works well, but many times it is quicker to just ease off glue with a chisel. For an inside corner I always have a skew or a cranked parer on the bench.

[David Coleman]

Maybe this has been mentioned on another thread but have you checked out a UK retailer called Workshop Heaven? They carry what seems to be the full line of Quangsheng planes, the company (I believe they mention this on the site) that likely makes the Woodriver planes. Check out www.workshopheaven.com and click on the /planes/Quangsheng pages. You'll see the Version 4's of the Woodriver planes and the block plane (copy of a unique LN design) that Woodcraft withdrew without comment last year, as well as a copy of the LN block rabbet. They have the chisel planes (and likely the side rabbet but didn't see it on the site) and a blog post by Matthew from the site mentions that Quangsheng is coming out with a low angle jack (Stanley 64) that also apes the LN design features. Woodcraft may be skirting conflict with LN and marketing only designs that LN has not vastly upgraded from the original Stanleys but I'd be interested to see if anyone has seen the copied LN planes marketed anywhere in the USA (outside of ebay).

[Jim Koepke]

You'll see the Version 4's of the Woodriver planes and the block plane (copy of a unique LN design) that Woodcraft withdrew without comment last year, as well as a copy of the LN block rabbet.

I am not to sure that I would feel good about buying a product from a company that will wait for Americans to design and perfect a tool and then make them in factories that do nothing to enable my fellow Americans to buy the things I make.

It seems a bit galling that they are proud to sell a "copy of a unique LN design."

Then I wonder what happens when there is a problem with one of their planes. Will they give us the level of service we have come to know from Thom Lie-Nielsen and Rob Lee?

We have to be very careful about our choices to save a few dollars. They may end up costing us dearly in the end.

jtk

[bridger berdel]

heh. resurrecting a zombie thread.

needed a side rabbet plane on short notice. the only one I could find locally was at the local woodcraft store, for more than I wanted to spend, but still less than LV or LN, not to mention faster to my hands. anyhow, I bought it.

so, some thoughts. first impression, pretty good. the fit and finish is certainly adequate to the task, if not quite the little gem of engineering of LV products. I'd say it is a close knockoff of the LV offering, with a few corners cut, or perhaps design decisions driven by patent protections, I don't know. in any case, those differences proved to be the Achilles heel of this plane.

first, the depth stop, or fence. this depth stop is held square to the body via a pair of grooves in the body mating to a pair of rails in the fence. the record version looks to have a V shaped groove for easy loading and unloading. the LV version has what appears to be a clever pivot mechanism allowing for fast reversal. the woodriver unit has square form rails in square form grooves. reversing the fence requires about 8 or 10 turns of the knob holding it on before you can release the fence enough to reverse it. for trimming jobs requiring frequent changes this is a real rhythm breaker. I ended up using a file to taper off the rails at the back end to allow an easier lift and swivel action for reversal. still, this fence leaves a lot to be desired. it really should be two fences that can be set and left set while you work.

second, and more importantly, the handle. the LV plane has a comfortable looking handle that swivels side to side to allow fast reversals. the woodriver plane has the preston/record style handle, which sticks out of the side of the plane in use, providing neither much in the way of grip nor any place to push with the palm of your hand. after a half hour of use I could see that if I continued I would end up with a nasty blister from the thin edge I was pushing against. I dealt with this by making a hot dog type handle, held on by simple wedge action.

so, some pics.

291433

291434

291435

291436

291437

291438

291439



in summary: this plane does meet my needs well enough for the moment. if I were to find a more interesting one at a good price, I'd likely sell this one on, but for now I'm satisfied.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for posting this Bridger.

How long are the blades?

jtk

[bridger berdel]

Thanks for posting this Bridger.

How long are the blades?

jtk


overall, from the longest part of the rounded back to the tip, about 1-3/8" :

291477

291478

as you can see here, the blade clamp almost completely obscures the back of the blade. as there are no adjusters access to the back of the blade is needed to advance the cut depth. this is a very awkward arrangement. the fact that the blade clamp holds both blades simultaneously precludes using a hammer to adjust the blades individually, and the odds of getting them right simultaneously by tapping the plane body seems vanishingly small. fortunately this is a set it and forget it type tool.

[Bill Houghton]

I didn't read all the way through; someone may have said this already...

The difference in bedding angle is slight enough that I wouldn't fuss over the sharpening angle. Do 'em both the same.