new shop questions, flooring and unvented propane heat

[tim vadas]

I'm finishing half of a 22x24 garage as a shop. I have one decision i'm having trouble making and am looking for thoughts about water from an unvented propane space heater.

The subfloor is 3/4" advantech flooring. I was thinking of leaving that and painting with either porch/deck paint or polyurethane. If so, do i need to sand the entire floor first? It seems a little fuzzy. But the other option i'm toying with is putting utility grade hardwood down. I'm not so concerned with the cost, more-so the additional time it will take to put that flooring in and finish. But i figured it would be less maintenance in the long run (moving tools out, cleaning, repainting the floor, etc.), and just a little nicer looking. Any thoughts on one way or the other?

This winter i'll be using a blue flame propane space heater because i got one for free. The walls/floor/cieling are all well insulated and sealed. I'll likely get a cieling mounted vented unit in the future, but for this winter, i'm concerned about my tools excessively rusting. Does anyone have experience with rusty hand tools or power tools from unvented propane heat? If i put a water resistant coating (wax/other product) on the exposed surfaces, is that enough to keep them protected. Or do people find the moisture excessive and need to run a dehumidifier?

[Alan Schaffter]

My shop floor is deck & porch enamel over 3/4" Advantech. There is no need to sand it before painting. Dust may collect in the remaining texture, but is easily vacuumed up. The biggest problem is that the surface is slick-to keep my feet from slipping I put non-slip rubber mats in front of the machines where I must push stock horizontally (tablesaw, jointer, planer)

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/P5220039.JPG

[David Christopher]

Tim, as far as the gas heat goes, I have NG unvented in my shop ( 10 years ) and have never had a problem with rust or moisture of any kind

[George Bregar]

Tim:

Seems like I'm about a year ahead of you...here is what I did http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=128924

Only difference is that I put down a moisure barrier called Delta-FL under the sub-floor.

I used a LP torpedo last winter and no real rust issues...and I even primed and painted all the walls and ceilings with water-based products. Unvented LP heat is not a good idea in the long term, but you can survive a season or two.

[Joel Spencer]

Tim,

I would think twice about painting the floor. I put in and Advantech floor (7/8 inch thick) two years ago and did not paint it. It feels good under foot, wears well, and I do not find it difficult to keep clean. The only reason I can see to paint it is for appearance, but as noted by another poster, that makes for a slippery floor. Mine is not slippery at all. Bottom line.......don't paint it.

As for heat, I did try to use a kerosene heater for a good part of one winter and did experience rusting of some of my tools. I suspect that the propane burns cleaner than the kerosene and that the moisture by-product from burning propane is less corrosive....just a guess.

Regards,
Joel

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

I am not sure if this is true, but I have heard that unvented propane can be dangerous to breath. Is this true? I ask as I am thinking of the same heat source for this winter.

[Chris Parks]

I am not sure if this is true, but I have heard that unvented propane can be dangerous to breath. Is this true? I ask as I am thinking of the same heat source for this winter.

It is a real danger, LPG produces Carbon Monoxide so be very aware of it. Kerosene just produces heaps of moisture, not a good idea in a workshop.

[Jim Andrew]

Be aware if that flooring is a waferboard product, it doesn't hold nails well, so nailing hardwood to it is not a great idea. Plywood holds nails, as well as solid boards, but waferboard does not.

[George Bregar]

I am not sure if this is true, but I have heard that unvented propane can be dangerous to breath. Is this true? I ask as I am thinking of the same heat source for this winter. And carbon fuel source will produce CO which can kill you.

[Alan Schaffter]

Be aware if that flooring is a waferboard product, it doesn't hold nails well, so nailing hardwood to it is not a great idea. Plywood holds nails, as well as solid boards, but waferboard does not.

Advantech is the subfloor of choice of many builders due to its superior properties that far exceed plywood- stability, stiffness, rigidity, uniformity, smoother surface moisture resistance, etc., etc.. It is very high density with a lot of binder and has as much similarity to OSB "waferboard" as marine grade Baltic Birch ply does to the lowest grade ply. It has been holding my almost 3000 sq. ft. of oak flooring just fine for the last 6 years.

[Gene E Miller]

Greetings & Salutations,

In this part of the country (Eastern Arknasas) propane infared heaters are use in shops as well as houses. There are many houses in this area that the only source of heat is one or two
propane infared heaters not the blue flame ones. I have been heating my shop area that is insulated and finished, a 10x30 area for several yrs now and have no problems with moisture or
rusting durning the winter when using the heater. My rusting and moisture troubles comes in the summer if I do not keep the ac running then the humidy starts to cause me problems.

[Lee Schierer]

And carbon fuel source will produce CO which can kill you.

All carbon based fuels (propane, natural gas, gasoline, kerosene, fuel oil etc), produce water vapor and CO or CO2 depending upon the efficiency of the unit. Unvented the CO or CO2 can accumulate and kill you. First sign is usually tiredness or a headache or your CO alarm going off.

[tim vadas]

Thanks for all the tips! I think i'll leave the floor as is for now, no paint. I don't want to be slipping around my tablesaw since i don't have too much width anyway. I don't care about looks and it'll be covered in shavings have the time anyway. And as for the heat, sounds like i shouldn't have any moisture problems, but i will definitely have a CO meter in there. I'll likely have some gaps around the garage door for ventilation anyway.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Blue Flame is good if you want to heat the area quickly. The propane infrared's are better if you want to keep the area heated for long periods of time. I use an electric radiator to keep my shop at least 50f, then kick on the blue flame to bring it up to about 70f, that only take a couple minutes (only 12x20 shop) and then cut it back to where it only kicks on to keep the shop from getting too cold.

[phil harold]

I used to use a propane "hog heater" to heat my 30x39 shop in South Dakota
moisture was a problem
I have gone to using a 55 gal double barrel wood stove
This is much nicer and cheaper to operate

just remember both is an open flame and can ignite dust or fumes