Recommendations: 6" Double Square

[Brett Bobo]

I posted an ad to the classifieds looking for a 6" double square but not much turned up so I'm looking for recommendations. I've looked at squares from Starrett and Lee Valley, along with Grizzly. The Grizzly is pennies on the dollar at $18 compared to the other two but there are no specifications on the tolerance for the Grizzly model. My preference is an English (Imperial) units model, not SI, with gradations in 1/8", 1/16", 1/32", and 1/64" but I'd be fine with at least 1/32" and 1/64". In that case, the Starrett is a front runner. What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Brett

[David Weaver]

Most of the cheapie taiwan/india/china import squares are fine. What you need to have, if you are going to use it where it's important that it's precise, is a master square that you know is square. Your master square doesn't have to be expensive, either, it just has to be checked by a square that you know is square.

Functionally, that square should be fine for woodworking, layout, etc.

I like starrett tools a lot, but it's not necessary to own them if you can find someone else with one (new, not dropped, not used for anything other than reference checking) and check your tools on theirs.

Your reference square then becomes your master square for anything you choose to spawn off of it or check with it, like used squares you'd find at a flea market for $2, etc.

[Joel Goodman]

I'm in the same boat and although I have a 12" Starrett was looking at the LV as it's about 2/3 the cost but still made in the USA. Anyone have one? They make a 4" and 6" but I think it's just the ruler that's different.

[Casey Gooding]

You won't go wrong with a Starrett. They not only are more accurate, but IMHO they feel better in the hand.

[paul cottingham]

I have the 6" from LV and it is very handy and accurate. I use it more than my 12" starret (which I also love.)

[Jim Koepke]

Long after the cake and candy that was bought with the money saved, the cheap tool will leave you longing for the higher priced tool.

Long after the money is spent on a premium tool, you will still smile every time you hold it in your hand and admire the fine workmanship.

jtk

[Chris Vandiver]

Starrett or Mitutoyo.

[David Weaver]

I'm in the same boat and although I have a 12" Starrett was looking at the LV as it's about 2/3 the cost but still made in the USA. Anyone have one? They make a 4" and 6" but I think it's just the ruler that's different.

I don't know what LV has, but if I am going to spend any appreciable amount of money at all, I want an accuracy guarantee, and it needs to be a good one.

I hope it doesn't come across like I don't have starrett stuff. I have a bunch of it...including a 24" try square that nobody here could use with one hand :D

[David Castor]

I love my Starretts. My three Starrett rules have been three of my better purchases. The price difference may seem large, but you'll never feel a need to upgrade and you can hand it down to your grandkids. I probably use the 4" rule more than the 6", but that may just be me.

There may be other brands that are just as good - I don't know.

[Dave Anderson NH]

David Weaver hit the nail on the head. Every woodworker should have a reference square. This is a tool that is exceptionally accurate in its level of squareness. It should be used as a test reference only and stored protected where it can not be damaged. If you would like a really cheap one, the triangular clear plastic drafting squares are both cheap and accurate. Other than that your choices are ones with published levels of runout my makers such as Starrett, Mitotoyo, Browne & Sharp, and SPI. Similarly, a reference straight edge is also useful for both hand tool use and power tool setup. The Veritas steel 24" one is a real steal (pun intended) at its price and the one I have when measured on an Micro-Vu optical coordinate measuring machine at work tested out at less than half of its stated tolerance allowance.

[Joel Goodman]

I don't know what LV has, but if I am going to spend any appreciable amount of money at all, I want an accuracy guarantee, and it needs to be a good one.

I hope it doesn't come across like I don't have starrett stuff. I have a bunch of it...including a 24" try square that nobody here could use with one hand :D

The LV lists a similar accuracy to the Starrett and I'm sure they stand behind their product. Of course a Starrett is a Starrett.

[Bob Jones]

I have the LV double square. It is square and is a pleasure to use.

Flip side - I just checked my engineer square from LV and it is not square. I bought it several years ago and I probably dropped it. Not sure how to fix it now?

[David Weaver]

Are you sure you know which is out of square?

It's nice, if cost isn't an object, to have one single certified square that stays in a package, like Dave mentioned.

Fortunately, I got a buddy who bought a starrett 6" certified square so I could check all of my used starrett, moore and wright and B&S gear. If he didn't have it, I would have bought one. I think he paid about $220 for one? (maybe that was the non-certified one) There is an excellent dealer in my city that I've gone to for straight edges and other such things, but I don't know that they normally ship (they did to me, but i'm 3 miles away).

[Josh Rudolph]

Long after the cake and candy that was bought with the money saved, the cheap tool will leave you longing for the higher priced tool.

Long after the money is spent on a premium tool, you will still smile every time you hold it in your hand and admire the fine workmanship.

jtk

Agree completely!

I have a 4" Double Square from LV...it works just fine.
However...as I can afford it, I am upgrading to Starrett.
I have the 6" square and grab it more often than the LV now. I use Starrett at work daily.

A reference square is a must to check things periodicly.
For rules, I have been using SPI that I got from Enco on one of their sales and have been completely satisfied with them.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have the 4" double square from LV - excellent. I have a Starret 6" double square, also excellent. Both are USA made and if I had to do it again, I would buy the 4" LV.

[Brad Bufkin]

I have a couple of Starret squares, but I dont use them much. I just use the cheaper ones. Just put the square on a known straight edge, mark a line, flip the square over and mark another line, measure, if they are parallel then it is a good square. Spend the extra money on a Starret if you can afford it, just remember ------ dont drop it!

[Johnny Kleso]

I have got several and most are from eBay for a song

http://business.shop.ebay.com/Inspection-Measurement-/12582/i.html?_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

There is a seller that sells new blades for a super song and have stocked up when ever his has them for my combo squares or plain rulers

No rulers this week but he has a deal on Starrett hacksaw blades
http://shop.ebay.com/513zag/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=R9&_ipg=&_sop=1

Edit: Song for Starrett let me add :)

[James Taglienti]

I've got a 4" Brown & Sharpe double square. It's a new one. It is a quality square and works fine, but it has metric graduations as well as imperial. This turned out to be a pretty big hassle and if I could do it over again I'd get a Starrett.

What I;d really like to get ahold of is the BIG Starrett combination square, with the 8" head... those things look very handy but I've yet to see one sell for less than $300.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

I have the LV 4" double square. Completely happy with it. It locks down square every time. I also love the size.

[Bill Houghton]

I have the LV double square. It is square and is a pleasure to use.

Flip side - I just checked my engineer square from LV and it is not square. I bought it several years ago and I probably dropped it. Not sure how to fix it now?

You can try banging it on your bench in a direction that will undo what you may have done in dropping it, then testing it. It works sometimes, and you don't have much to lose.

You're probably familiar with the home shop test: butt the square against a known straight edge (test the cardboard back on a notepad - sometimes these are very straight). Strike a line, using your very finest pencil or a knife. Flip the square so the stock (handle part) is going in the opposite direction - if it was headed off to the right the first time, it's now headed off to the left. Align the same edge of the beam (rule part) that you used the first time with the line you made, and strike another line. If it's dead square, the lines will be dead parallel. If not, it's not square.

I don't know that I'd trust this square ever again as a reference square, regardless of how well you do fixing it.

[Adam Cherubini]

Brett, I recommend against buying an expensive double square. No double square will ever be as accurate as a normal square. So if accuracy is what you are after, buy an engineer's square.

I recommend against buying engineer's squares also. First, I resent the invasion of machinst tools in wood shops. Second, I don't like the way they feel, the clunkiness of them, or their shapes and sizes. I don't like their sharp edges or oilly surfaces against my projects. An old stanley with a blued blade and wooden handle lined with a bit of brass is better suited to woodworking.

That said, if you are setting up ww machines and need a square for that, then an engineer's square is the right tool for the job. If you are looking for a good quality engineer's square buy a US made one. They really are just plain better.

Be careful with the accuracy claims made by all precision tool manufacturers. .001"/inch isn't really all that accurate. A 6" square could be out .006". If you are marking across a 20" carcass side, you could be out of square .020". Use the wrong reference face on one of the sides and you are out .040". Not insignificant.

My point is, in a hand tool shop, the accuracy of the work depends more on basic layout and construction technique, not the precision of the square used. I use a wooden square I made myself (it's pretty darned accurate actually). To produce accurate parts, I match plane things, match saw, trim to fit. Because I don't always 4 square everything , I'm very careful of my reference faces. I often see pro woodworkers, who've spent their lives using ww machines, mixing up their reference faces.

Lastly, you don't need a reference square. You just need a straight edge. I use the front edge of my work bench. Strike a line with a knife, then flip the square over and compare the blade against the struck line. If your square is out, you can fix it. OR, you can simply use this technique (with your straight edge when you need to mark square on a wide panel.

One more thing- When you are working with wood, sometimes the reference face may not be perfect. In that case, you'll get more accuracy out of a square with a longer handle. 18th c squares were nearly square, having handles almost as long as their blades. Think about that before you place an order for a 6" engineer's square. Their handles are 4" long. My normal square has a 12" blade and a 10 or 11" handle.

Adam

[James Taglienti]

I recommend against buying engineer's squares also. First,I resent the inevasion of machinst tools in wood shops.

Adam

Well the invasion has been happening since just about the day machinist's squares came into manufacture. So to everyone but a historian that's long enough ago to be old news. These squares really don't look out of place any more. And I've opened quite a few carpenter's trunks to find, among wood smoothers and home made beading cutters, a Starrett combination square.

I must say I very much enjoy having a few machinists tools in the shop and I think it improves my work.

But dial calipers and micrometers are another story.

[Brett Bobo]

Thanks, I appreciate all of the thought-provoking responses! I should clarify that I plan to use the double square as a layout tool only, and not for machine setup, which I do use engineer's squares. Given I'll use it as a layout tool, the tolerance isn't all that critical when we're comparing thousandths and my machine setup will determine the final accuracy. I've found my combinations squares to be slightly cumbersome and for a majority of my work, I don't utilize the 45 degree feature. Is there anyone that would be willing to part with one of their double squares, either the Lee Valley or Starrett?

Thanks,
Brett

[Adam Cherubini]

Hey James, I corrected my spelling. That's ambarrrassing!

I agree. We're rapidly moving away from the miscellaneous engineer's square or dial caliper. Didn't some ww supplier (LV?) start carrying test stands and dial indicators? That seems pretty silly to me. I don't even like the 6" steel rules, tho I admit I have one. I use it for clearing my wooden planes clogged throats!

Adam

[James Taglienti]

I've got a 12" Starrett rule that I use for some layout and hinge placement... and it's got enough spring to it that I can press it against a glue joint and strip the dried squeeze out right off.

My favorite square is a 100 year old tapered framing square that is DEAD ON. I bought it that way at an auction and I handle it like a ppiece of glass!

[Kevin Groenke]

Most of my personal layout tools are Starrett or Mitutoyo but I also need to buy in quantity for students who don't appreciate or respect the "best" so I need to find cost effective alternatives.

We recently got 4 sets of "iGaging" double squares (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Set-of-2-Double-Squares-4-and-6-iGAGING-by-IPIC/productinfo/466-3464/). These do not have the "feel" of their higher-end brethren, but they are square as near as I could measure w/feeler gauge and the engraving is clear and consistent. I did have to knock off some sharp corners and apply a coat of wax to get them to slide smoothly. A pretty good value - but I'm still carrying a Starrett in my apron pocket.

-kg