Big roughing gouge

[Andrew Frandsen]

Good day all,

I am looking for the biggest roughing gouge that I can find. So far a 1-3/4" Pinnacle from Woodcraft is the biggest I have seen. Are there any others out there to look at?

Cheers, Andrew

[Tony De Masi]

Since you gave the size as 1 3/4 I will assume you are looking for a spindle roughing gouge. I have a 2 inch one from Benjamin's Best. High Speed Steel and holds a really good edge on it.

[Bob Noles]

I have the same one as Tony.... it is a BEAST :D:eek:

[Jeff Nicol]

Ditto on the BB 2" HOG!!! It is inexpensive and it really hogs off the wood on logs and big spindles! Holds an edge very good for the price

Have fun,

Jeff

[Ralph Lindberg]

3rd on the BB hog, it is huge

[Thom Sturgill]

+1 more on the BB. I have been told that this is definitely a case where bigger is better.

[Michael Ginsberg]

I have the 1 3/4" from Crown. Holds edge very well. Not Pro Pm- regular.

[Jon Murphy]

This is five years after the original thread but I thought I'd toss it in for those who may have the same question and be looking at the old thread. One problem with roughing gouges is the sizing - we all know the spindle and bowl gouge differences (English vs. American - flute width vs. round stock diameter), but the roughing gouges seem to vary among the vendors as to the method of measurement. I posted a thread asking for a standard measure (either here of on the AAW forum) and got various answers.

I finally bought the PSI BB 2", I had one of their smaller ones but couldn't figure out if it was 3/4" or 1" as I'd bought it years ago. The 2" BB roughing gouge is 2" outside width and about 1 5/8" between flutes. As the most general answer I got from my post seem to have the between flute measurement it seems that the BB 2" is about the same size as the 1 3/4" from others - but it also seems they are all approximate, unlike the round stock gouges. No problem, it works beautifully.

One more comment on BB tools, good steel but not well ground or handled. Again, no problem, I regrind all my tools to my preferred shape. I have certain tools on which I spend money, I have many others where it is far better to buy the PSI BB. My two basic skews are M4 Alan Lacers, my basic detail and bowl gouges are Thompson's - both are a very high grade steel and sold unhandled. Everything else (except for some leftovers before I learned not to believe the ads) is BB. My scrapers and auxiliary gouges which I'm always reshaping as well as my roughing gouges - why grind away expensive steel when you know you will be reshaping the tool an number of times.

[David Walser]

...
One more comment on BB tools, good steel but not well ground or handled. Again, no problem, I regrind all my tools to my preferred shape. I have certain tools on which I spend money, I have many others where it is far better to buy the PSI BB. My two basic skews are M4 Alan Lacers, my basic detail and bowl gouges are Thompson's - both are a very high grade steel and sold unhandled. Everything else (except for some leftovers before I learned not to believe the ads) is BB. My scrapers and auxiliary gouges which I'm always reshaping as well as my roughing gouges - why grind away expensive steel when you know you will be reshaping the tool an number of times.

A few years ago my wife looked over my shoulder as I circled items in PSI's print catalog. (These weren't items I intended to buy. Just items I found interesting and planned on comparing with what was available from other vendors.) As a result, I got a bunch of BB tools for Christmas. Here's my observations on BB tools based on 10-12 I own:

The finish on the tools is very rough. Lots of machining marks left on the blade of the tool. The corners on tools made from flat bar stock, skews and scrapers, have not been softened. I have two sets of HF tools and the BB tools are, in general, rougher. One or two of the HF tools are as rough as the best of the BB. None of the BB tools are as well finished as the best of the HF tools. At one time I thought the roughness of the BB tools was just an appearance issue. It's not. It affects the tools' performance. The machining marks and sharp corners make the tools drag on the tool rest. The machining marks get filled with crud and make the tools harder to clean. The last time I sharpened my tools I spent a lot of time hand sanding the tools to both clean them and to soften the corners and reduce the machining marks.
The steel holds an edge fairly well, but there's a wide variance from one tool to the next. A couple of weeks ago, I cleaned out my shop and decided to sharpen all my tools. I use a Tormek, so I remove very little metal with each pass on the wheel. If all I'm doing is touching up an edge, once or twice across the wheel is all it takes. If I'm changing bevel angles or shape, it takes A LOT more time. (Usually, if I'm removing much metal, I use my Tormek jigs on my dry grinder. I didn't this time because the dry grinder is outside in my shop and Arizona summer temps were well over 100 degrees. I can use my Tormek inside the house in air conditioned comfort.) I chose to add a negative rake to all me scrapers and to change the bevel angle on all my skews. This gave me the chance to compare how long it takes to remove metal from the steel used by the various makers of the tools in my kit. I take this to be a fair proxy for the durability of an edge in actual turning. In descending order (with most durable first) here's how I rank things: Thompson, Hamlet and Henry Taylor, Serious Lathe Tools, HF and BB. The BB tools had the most variability from one tool to the next. There's a significant drop from Thompson to the other tools, which are all M2 steel (Serious tools are A1).
The BB flat bar stock tools (skews and scrapers) are thicker than those from HF. This should reduce vibration when extended over the tool rest.


None of this is to suggest that BB tools are not a good value. They can be. Buyers just need to understand that BB's quality varies a good bit from one tool to the next (even when included in the same set) and that they may need to do a lot of hand work to smooth out the tools' rough edges.

[cody michael]

I have the BB bowl gouge set, I have been very happy with it, I don't have enough money to buy the high end tools but the BB ones I have are better tools then I am user lol

[Wally Dickerman]

Just to see what all the talk about BB tools was about I bought two of them. One, a small scraper was okay. It took and held an edge. The other, a roughing gouge, was so bad that I threw it in the trash in disgust. I really don't think it had been tempered. I'll stay with better tools.

[John Keeton]

The only BB tools I find to be worth buying are the scrapers and the 2" roughing gouge. I don't use the roughing gouge much in the type of work I do, but I find it to be very functional and a good value as I use it so little. Touching up the edge when I need to use it is not an inconvenience. The scrapers, at about $17 each, are nice to have for re-grinding into various special use tools. I have a couple that are rounded on one side, left and right that I use to shear scrape, one that is ground to cut a 3/8" recess, one that will do an undercut dovetail, etc. they do require frequent sharpening during use, but again, they are special use tools that don't get a lot of mileage. Therefore, touching them up when used isn't an issue.

[Geoff Whaling]

they do require frequent sharpening during use, but again, they are special use tools that don't get a lot of mileage. Therefore, touching them up when used isn't an issue.

We don't get BB here in Australia and don't normally see any of them, but we do see plenty of other generic brands in a similar price bracket. The general comments like David's above, Wallys "was so bad that I threw it in the trash in disgust. I really don't think it had been tempered." & particularly David's "Buyers just need to understand that BB's quality varies a good bit from one tool to the next" say a lot to me. I don’t understand that – if I pay good money I expect to get a useable tool. Quotes about a 100% waste of money come to mind IF you get the bad one. Worse still what if you get injured?

If the QC is so bad that the manufacturer can not detect un-tempered tools & let them go through to sale I think I would steer well clear of that brand, no matter how many replacements they offer. Next is that if a brand is known for its economy I would be checking the tang length etc. Have they saved material there too?

Poorly tempered steel in a tool, insufficient tang engagement in the handle, too small a ferrule, light handle etc are significant hazards that can create rather unfortunate and potentially quite dangerous mishaps.

The OP asked about large roughing gouges and many have mentioned the BB 2" tanged spindle roughing gouge (SRG) is available. https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LX240.html

Now if there is questionable QC from a manufacturer I doubt very much that I would purchase the brand myself and certainly would not trust the designed proportions of the tang or the handle for a BB 2" SRG as shown in the link. IF I was given a 2" SRG, first off it would want to know more about it before I put it into use. The BB would be un-handled to see just how long that tang is, how far it goes into the handle and the handle would be discarded immediately. IF the tang had sufficient length I would at least make a new handle that has a much larger ferrule, at least 1 & 1/4" or 32mm, and a decent hardwood handle. I would however never feel confident in that tool knowing that others have experienced poor QC issues.

My preferences are for Hamlet SRG’s for standard SRG designs but I much prefer the P&N SRG’s with their solid milled tang. The P & N’s are very expensive compared to the BB but are a much safer tool IMO.

It all gets back to risk management and balancing the best option for the purchaser, what is best for them and what risk they are prepared to accept.

[Thom Sturgill]

A recent thread asking about Sorby tools had a link to this report http://woodturninglearn.net/articles/ToolSteel.pdf where several brands were tested by an independent lab to determine the metallurgy involved and resultant hardness. While the article DOES NOT address newer powder metals it does discuss the fact that heat treatment of HSS is very critical and is often botched. Interestingly, they tested BB tools both from PSI and from e-bay with different results. Definitely a case of 'caveat emptor'.

Another article I recently read discussed the sizing of gouges. In both the US and UK spindle gouges are measured by the diameter of the shaft, while in the US we also measure bowl gouges the same way, UK measures either by the flute width or by the distance from the outside of the shaft to the opposite inside of the flute. This latter measurement is the manner in which forged gouges (including SRGs) which are rolled from flat stock are typically measured and some bowl gouge manufacturers use it for machined gouges as well. Since we are now starting to see machined SRGs in the 1" range, we will need to get used to different measures there too, I guess.

I own and have been satisfied with the BB 2" SRG. If I buy a smaller one, it will be either a D-Way or Thompson machined gouge.

[Doug Ladendorf]

I just got the Crown - I think we would call it 1 1/4"? It's pretty nice and should last until I can afford the Thompson monster (I got to touch one at the symposium, ooohhh sweet!)

[Wes Ramsey]

The only BB tools I find to be worth buying are the scrapers and the 2" roughing gouge. I don't use the roughing gouge much in the type of work I do, but I find it to be very functional and a good value as I use it so little. Touching up the edge when I need to use it is not an inconvenience. The scrapers, at about $17 each, are nice to have for re-grinding into various special use tools. I have a couple that are rounded on one side, left and right that I use to shear scrape, one that is ground to cut a 3/8" recess, one that will do an undercut dovetail, etc. they do require frequent sharpening during use, but again, they are special use tools that don't get a lot of mileage. Therefore, touching them up when used isn't an issue.

I look at them the same way. Spending more $$ on ANYTHING never guarantees perfection or quality - only that your chances of getting them are increased. BB and Thompson are the only lathe tools I know, and when I only had BB tools I was quite happy with their performance. Now that I have a few Thompson tools I understand why there is such a wide gap in price, but when they are ground correctly I don't know that one really cuts any better than the other and they all have to be sharpened on occasion. I would wager that a majority of wood turners frequently or exclusively use tools in the price range of BB simply because of the price, and those more experienced of us started out using them before graduating to more expensive tools. Sure I would prefer they have better control of their QC folks, but that would increase the price and keep more people from taking up the craft. They have their place in our world. Maybe not in everyone's shop, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to a friend.

[David Walser]

... I would wager that a majority of wood turners frequently or exclusively use tools in the price range of BB simply because of the price, and those more experienced of us started out using them before graduating to more expensive tools. Sure I would prefer they have better control of their QC folks, but that would increase the price and keep more people from taking up the craft. They have their place in our world. Maybe not in everyone's shop, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to a friend.

I started turning with Harbor Freight's Windsor Design set of tools (the cheaper of the two sets). I continue to use several of the tools. Indeed, my favorite 3/8" spindle gouge is the one from that set. Harbor Freight didn't grind the flute to full depth, which makes the tool a little stiffer than my 3/8" spindle gouge from Hamlet. I have the HF gouge ground with swept back wings, leaving a narrow nose that allows me to get into tight places. So, I agree that tools in this price range have their place. I have, and will continue to, recommend the HF set to new turners. It's a fairly complete set for spindle turning and the fact you can get it for less than $50 with a coupon means you can afford to grind away a lot of metal while learning to sharpen (which I've found much more difficult than learning to turn).

However, it appears that not all brands of tools in this price range are of equal quality. My admittedly small sample (two sets of HF tools, one the cheaper and one the more expensive) and my similar number of BB tools lead me to believe BB tools are, one the whole, inferior to HF tools. This is a shame because BB produces a much greater variety of tools. There are other brands in this price range and I hope we can identify one or more of those brands that are more consistent in quality than BB. I'd hesitate recommending BB to a new turner for fear an inferior tool frustrates the newbie. When I was newish, I wouldn't have known the the problem was the tool and not me.