All things Pyro - let's talk! (Richard Madden and Donny Lawson!)

[John Keeton]

In a recent thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=153824&page=2)on the D-way beading tools I purchased in which I posted a "Basket Illusion" by Jim Adkins, Richard Madden inquired, "after seeing this post http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=142643 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=142643) and the article an in Woodturning Design, I knew I was going to have to give it a try someday. If you will be burning the beads, what burner will you use? I have been leaning toward the Razertip with the create-a-tip pen, but haven't pulled the trigger on it yet."

And, I noticed Donny Lawson posted a thread in the General Woodworking forum regarding reference sources for pyro work.

So, in answer to Richard's inquiry, and in hope of getting some good discussion going on this topic, I thought I would post pics of my equipment, and ask that others post pics of theirs, as well as any comments - pro/con - on what they prefer on equipment.

I bought this unit and all tips from a fellow that had it listed on CL. He had done a lot of carved fish, so he had a large selection of "fish scale" tips for the DetailMaster pen.

169517169518169519

That is the exact type of tip used by Jim Adkins on his basket turnings. Fortunately, included were the 1/8" and 3/16" tips to fit the beading tools I purchased. The tips are more hemispherical than appear in the angle of these pics, and should fit the beads perfectly.

I have used this unit only to sign a few pieces, and the pen gets pretty hot - even at a lower setting - thus the athletic tape on it, which seems to help. Otherwise, I am pretty happy with the way it works, though I have not played with it much. Seems like most information I can find favors dedicated tip pens vs. interchangeable tips. I suspect I will end up with a cooler running version of the DetailMaster if one is out there.

So, what kind of equipment do you have, what would you prefer, and can you tell us about any good resource materials you know of?

[Chris Colman]

Wow! Never used a fancy rig like that. Congratulations! Looking forward to seeing what you make with it.

I have been using the old soldering iron style with interchangeable screw-in tips. Pretty low-tech, but it works, if you take it slow.

[Michael James]

Dang you John K!!! Just when I thought I was caught to the '00's in my turning stuff. Little more practice and Im going down that road. I will be watching you for tips, tricks pointers and equipment evals!
Looking forward to seeing what you do with this!
Michael

[Jim Underwood]

I've only used my standard Weller soldering "gun" for burning a five pointed "blossom" into the bottom of my turned pears and apples. :o

But I've eyed those commercial units plenty of times!

That and a power carver are on my long (not short) list of stuff to get....:rolleyes:

[Richard Madden]

John, that's a good looking rig you have there, should get the job done! What I find most interesting is the tips you show. I had no idea that shape you are calling "fishscale" was available, and it looks perfect for the burning of beads. I thought I would need to make my own, bending wire to conform to the bead. The Razertip brand burner has been recommended by a few and looking in catalogs like Woodturners Supply, and Packard, they both offer the Create-a Tip pen by Razertip. I figured that would be the way to go, but after seeing the ones you have, I need to search further. I really didn't think a wire (even 22 ga.) could be bent to both comform to the bead and have the tips reach to the outer radius in one burn. An article in the Summer 2008 issue of Woodturning Design was good, and inspired me to give this a try, but when I emailed the author of the article and the artist to get more detail as to the burning tip used, neither was much help.
Lucky finding the entire set-up you have there, including all the tips. Looks like you're ready to go. I have been thinking about either the Razertip brand, or making one myself as shown here;http://www.svwoodturners.org/TipsTricks/PriddleStyleWoodVaporizer/PriddleStyleWoodVaporizer.html
I was referred to this site by Nedra Denison that has some good pyrography info. She sells the Razertip brand and the site has some good info, most of which I haven't been able to check out yet.http://www.nedraspyrography.com/Nedra-Denison-and-Sawdust-Connection-home.htm
What you have there certainly looks like it should get the job done. Thanks for posting the pictures. Now I need to look for some fishscale tips.

[Richard Coers]

I have the Detail Master, and the hand pieces do get hot. I bought some sleeves to insulate them, $4.95 for 4 sleeves. And they work very well. http://www.detailmasteronline.com/finger_detail.html
I just bought the book, Woodburning with Style by Simon Easton. http://www.amazon.com/Woodburning-Style-Pyrography-Patterns-Projects/dp/156523443X
I liked it better than most books because he has sections on just adding texture. Most woodburning instruction has to do with animals and landscape scenes. Eastons book does have a little of that, but many good ideas for texture.
I just did my first bowl rim in the style of Matthew Hill. Our club had him teach for a weekend. His gallery is pretty impressive. http://www.matthewhillstudio.com/about.html
For that work, he suggests an 80 watt Weller soldering iron. This unit uses a 3/8" rod. I modified my first brass bar and branded in bumps all around the rim. I liked the result, but man does that take time! You have to clean the pocket in the brand every 4 impressions. LOML didn't much care for all the smoke smell coming upstairs either. I'm just getting started at this, but having fun.

[Mark Hubl]

John,

Timely subject. Here are pictures of my rig, couple of pens, wire and a WIP. I have used this rig on several pieces and I am happy with it. There are a couple of weaknesses in most systems used by wood turners. These systems are more geared toward the wonderful and delicate work of the pyro artists. Most wood turners are heavy handed "branders". So even the most powerful units could use more power to keep irons hot and the handpieces tend to heat up and have a shorter than wanted life.

Graeme Priddle recently visited the Chicago Turners and did a demo day that I was lucky to attend. Graeme uses a lot of branding in his work. He is also an electrical engineer. For his work he converts 10amp battery chargers and makes his own handpieces. He hopes to market a handpiece soon that is geared for the brander market. In the mean time, for those interested google Graeme and charger. (oops, Just followed Richard's link. That is one of them!) There are several clubs that have posted instructions on making his setup. For making a version of his pen, google Molley Winton. There is a pdf article out there where she describes making hers. The pen is heavy duty, uses custom built tips/nibs and gets rid of heat better.

I will probably make a pen to try with my unit. I have had good luck just making branding tips with nichrome wire. Wire can be purchased at McMaster and Carr.

As Richard stated Nedra's site is a good place to check out. I have purchased from her and would give her a thumbs up.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5083/5240916655_00f9579f0b_z.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5240916739_7fc99c9245_z.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5167/5241511526_2b1688a12e_z.jpg

[Paul Douglass]

I'm pretty excited about this thread. My wife gave me this set last Christmas after me begging for one for many months. I was going to use it in my Cigar Box Guitar building. Well shortly after I turned on the lathe and haven't gone back to the CBG building since. I have only turned my burner on once. I'm anxious to use it so I will be following this closely.

[Paul Williams]

Before I started turning I carved a lot of decoys. I built my burner using a fan speed control (similar to a light dimmer switch) and a small transformer. I used several makes of handpieces and built a few of my own, but ended up with mostly detail master handpieces. I have used cork and rubber hose as insulation from the heat and to give a little more bulk to hold on to. If anyone is planning to make their own unit, and needs help, I could dig mine out and take some photos and measurements, part numbers etc. I think I remember where it is.

[Cathy Schaewe]

I'm hoping Wally Dickerman reads this thread and chimes in .... his pyrography is beautiful (love those giraffe HF's), and I've wanted to ask him for advice on what to get and where to get more info.

[Jim Underwood]

Here are two links I dug up a couple years ago. One instructs how to make the handpiece, and the other how to make a control out of a PC's power supply.

http://www.fishcarver.com/images/burning%20instructions.PDF

http://www.thegourdreserve.com/tutorials/tempcontrol/burn1.shtml

I'd love comments on either or both of these. Would the PC powersupply be as good as the 10A battery charger?

[Alan Zenreich]

Here's Lauren's current setup.

She has a mix of Burnmaster pens and RazerTip pens.

[David DeCristoforo]

John, you simply must get some more tools and wood if you are going to take this turning thing seriously!

[David E Keller]

John, you simply must get some more tools and wood if you are going to take this turning thing seriously!

It is a shame that someone with talent continues to mearly dabble... Just imagine what he could do if he only had proper tooling and some beautiful wood to play with.

[Mike Peace]

I attended an all day workshop our club had a few months ago taught by fellow club member Mike Gibson (that is his HF on the back cover of the latest American Woodturner) and his wife Cynthia. Cynthia provided some useful information on pyrography. Some of her points included:

· Practice on a scrap of the same type of wood prior to burning your project.
· Doverpublications.com is an excellent source for clipart you can transfer to your work with graphite paper.
· There are sources all around us for patterns to use including:china, fabric patterns, neckties, tooled leather and silver engraving. There are even patter books!
· It is very difficult to do acceptable animals if you can not draw.
· The Razertip is a good unit.
· Start at a low heat range – more forgiving than high!
· Three tips are probably plenty: a skew or knife tip, a writing tip with a ball and a shader.
· Burning technique takes a lot of practice. Think of using the burning tip more like a brush rather than a pencil. Think of a plane touching down and taking off.
After getting inspired by Cynthia’s woodburning, I found this wonderful site with some great information on pyrography: www.nedraspyrography.com
I finally decided to get an Optima 1 dual burner and two heavy duty pens. The Optima is very similar to the Razertip unit Cynthia uses but at lower cost.

[Donny Lawson]

Thanks for this thread. I'm learning.Maybe we can get this added to the forum. "Pyrography". I would love to get into this and add some nice designs to my bowls and pens and other items. Maybe by the time I get my shop up and running I will know alot more about this.
Donny

[Bill Hunt]

John, If you get the Burnmaster pen it will not be as hot. Only gets around 70 + degrees. it has a shape thast is easy to hold too. I'm learning too.

Bill Hunt

[Steve Vaughan]

John, I've got that same burnmaster and love it. I also found that same fishcarver site, there the guy gives directions to make that fish scale tip. Bought some wire in two gages off amazon to make me some tips...at least that's my intention.

[Thom Sturgill]

This is the rig I bought for my celtic knot bowl. A local artist at a shared facility here in town sells these and I bought from her to, in part, support a local artist. Shee strongly recommended the fixed tips claiming that the removable tips get to where they will not stay. I found having multiple pens that could be quickly changed to be a handy feature. http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=169585&stc=1&d=1291770061

[Mark Burge]

Jim, thanks for the link. I keep looking at the pyrography rigs on eBay and I say to myself, " my high school electronics teacher could have made that for next to nothing".

OkY, after reading the link carefully, I realized that I had already made one of these. I had used it as a variable speed control on my old single speed dremel! Looks like I can start burning right away. :-)

[Ryan Baker]

I use a Colwood "Cub" outfit. It is inexpensive, but has plenty of power for anything I have been able to throw at it. The Colwood pens are nice, and stay much cooler than some of the other pens I have used. It also works with Razortip pens, which expands the tip options significantly.

The smallest writing tip is by far my most used (for signing turnings and other things). I use a number of other assorted tips too, including skews and ball tips. (The razortip ball stylus pens are critical for stuff like the giraffe patterns -- but man do those pens get hot!!)

My only complaint with the Cub is that the cord attaching the pen to the power supply could stand to be longer (and a heavier wire gauge). The larger Colwood units do have a heavier cord (at least as an option).

I hadn't seen those beading tips before -- but they certainly look invaluable for that type of work.

I have also tried to use the soldering iron type burning devices, as well as the 80 watt Weller irons, and found them to be very lacking and essentially unusable. They don't compare at all to even the least expensive of the real burners.

[Richard Madden]

John, have you tried those fishscale tips on beads yet? I did some searching yesterday and Detailmaster was the only site where I could find any. I did find one site that showed how to make your own using a ball peen hammer to flatten the wire and grinding the shape, but what you have looks like it should work well, and be a whole lot easier.
BTW, do you think a thread on index wheels might be next??

[John Keeton]

Richard, I have not used them yet, and while I have not researched it yet, you may be right on the availability of these tips. I think in actual use as intended, they are used upside down from the manner in which I would use them. That way they would leave a fishscale like shape.

Unlike apparently most woodturners, I usually work on a piece to conclusion, or at least the finishing stage, before starting another one. Right now, I have a WIP that is demanding my time. I hope to get started on the piece that will have beading in the near future - but will need to do some practice first. I will try to post some pics of the practice session.

I really, really appreciate all that have participated in this thread!!:) Great exchange of information and ideas - many of which I have noted for reference, including the insulating covers for my Detailmaster.

Please continue to comment and post pics of your setups - along with any tips you may have, or experiences that might help others venturing into the Pyro field.

[Wally Dickerman]

I'm hoping Wally Dickerman reads this thread and chimes in .... his pyrography is beautiful (love those giraffe HF's), and I've wanted to ask him for advice on what to get and where to get more info.

Thanks Cathy. I don't have time to take pics of my pyro equipment. I have a Detail Master controller. There are several other good ones on the market. I have a variety of pens. Detail Master, Razertip and a couple of others. Yes the handles do get hot. I wear a golf glove when I'm burning, and I give the pens a rest when they get too hot.

Mike Peace has given some good advice. Practice, especially with the skew is very important. Use it like a plane landing and taking off to avoid uneven burning. Different pens require a different amount of heat so you need to know the setting for each one. It's important to keep the skew sharp. I hone mine frequently while I'm using it.

Questions Cathy? Fire away. I don't know all of the answers but I'll try.

Wally

[Jim Underwood]

I thought I'd posted this, but turns out my last link was another way to put together a controller for a cheap woodburning pen.

This is the article I thought I was posting:
http://www.lavieenbois.com/html/pyrograveur_eng.htm

It's about using a PC power supply to power a woodburning pen.

[Mark Hubl]

Well, after seeing Leo's rig in another thread it gave me some motivation. Thanks Leo.

I have been meaning to make some home brew handpieces for a while. So a quick trip to the hardware for some wire and rca plugs. These are pretty easy to make and they seem to be working better and staying cooler than the store bought.


Here is an interesting little article I ran across doing some research. How to make an electric pen, Popular Mechanics April of 1936. http://books.google.com/books?id=ZSgDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA63&dq=homemade+wood+branding+pen&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=true

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5009/5261661331_2697867cf9_z.jpg

[Cathy Schaewe]

Thanks Cathy. I don't have time to take pics of my pyro equipment. I have a Detail Master controller. There are several other good ones on the market. I have a variety of pens. Detail Master, Razertip and a couple of others. Yes the handles do get hot. I wear a golf glove when I'm burning, and I give the pens a rest when they get too hot.

Mike Peace has given some good advice. Practice, especially with the skew is very important. Use it like a plane landing and taking off to avoid uneven burning. Different pens require a different amount of heat so you need to know the setting for each one. It's important to keep the skew sharp. I hone mine frequently while I'm using it.

Questions Cathy? Fire away. I don't know all of the answers but I'll try.

Wally

Wally, thanks for responding. I was curious what you had, so that's helpful. At this point, I don't know enough to ask intelligent questions. I checked a couple of books out of the library, and I'm going to do my research, and then maybe I'll ask some questions!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks for a great thread John. I have been looking at getting one myself and just haven't had much info.

[John Keeton]

Bernie, this has been a very informative exchange! I am working on a turning now that will hopefully have some beading on it, and some pyro work inspired by the Jim Adkins demo. I spoke with Jim today by phone, and he was very helpful. He also indicated that Bob Hanson of DetailMaster was going to be providing some pens to Jim's specs for the "basket" work he does. I think the tips I have will work, but if this beading thing interests me, I may well look into the pens he spoke of.

Also, for what it is worth, apparently DetailMaster will rebuild pens for a reasonable cost.

[charlie knighton]

google Molley Winton. There is a pdf article out there where she describes making hers. The pen is heavy duty, uses custom built tips/nibs and gets rid of heat better.




Molly is going to be at tennessee woodturning symposium in nashville in late january

[Mark Hubl]

Molly is going to be at tennessee woodturning symposium in nashville in late january

I had the pleasure to see Molly at SOFA last year. She was doing a demo on her techniques. I do like her stuff. Her embellishments are wonderful, but her forms are awfully good foundations.

[George Guadiane]

John,
When you get a chance, could you shoot a very closeup of the fish scale tips? I'd like to know how they were made... IE can they be soldered or welded and still hold together when burning or must they be hammered and filed from a continuous wire?

I have a home made job designed and modified by Graeme Priddle. Its converted from a car battery charger. While I have used it very little, I'm VERY interested in the boundaries for burner tips. If the metal gets to a temperature, for instance but doesn't glow red, will it still burn? Could I, then sue gold or silver wire or castings to create my tips and/or signatures?


I bought this unit and all tips from a fellow that had it listed on CL. He had done a lot of carved fish, so he had a large selection of "fish scale" tips for the DetailMaster pen.

So, what kind of equipment do you have, what would you prefer, and can you tell us about any good resource materials you know of?

[Mark Hubl]

John,
When you get a chance, could you shoot a very closeup of the fish scale tips? I'd like to know how they were made... IE can they be soldered or welded and still hold together when burning or must they be hammered and filed from a continuous wire?

I have a home made job designed and modified by Graeme Priddle. Its converted from a car battery charger. While I have used it very little, I'm VERY interested in the boundaries for burner tips. If the metal gets to a temperature, for instance but doesn't glow red, will it still burn? Could I, then sue gold or silver wire or castings to create my tips and/or signatures?

George,

Here is a link to a "how to" on making fish scale tips.http://fishcarver.com/making_fish_scale_tips.htm
The author uses nichrome wire and hammers and grinds to shape it. Most use nichrome for tips.

Here is a handy chart with information about Nichrome wire. Ihttp://www.wiretron.com/nicrdat.html

I buy nichrome wire (1/8 lb spool) from McMaster&Carr.

I have seen copper nails used for branding tips. I saw Graeme demonstrate his techniques and he had all kinds of tips. On some he used pieces of copper intertwined with nichrome wire. Each wood seems to burn a little differently. To brand wood takes pretty high temps.

[John Keeton]

John, When you get a chance, could you shoot a very closeup of the fish scale tips? I'd like to know how they were made... IE can they be soldered or welded and still hold together when burning or must they be hammered and filed from a continuous wire?George, I will do that later today and post.

[John Keeton]

George, as promised, here are the pics. These are inverted from the intended use as "fishscale" tips, and are oriented as I intend to use them for beading. This is one of the larger tips - 11/32".