Hollowing/coring bowls - is there an easier way?

[Prashun Patel]

Is there an easier way to hollow bowls? I've been using 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8" bowl gouges, but they are a) tedious, and b) sometimes a little tricky around the transition area where the interior wall transitions from 'vertical' to 'horizontal'.

Anyway, should I be looking at a hollowing tool? Which one?

[Bernie Weishapl]

Prashun I turn all my bowls with 1/2" or 5/8" gouges. I may at times use a hunter tool to clean it up. You could get some those pricey Easy Roughers, Easy finishers or whatever they are called. Never used them so can't tell you anything about them but someone will chime in.

[Scott Hackler]

One thing to concider Prashun is grain orientation and keeping the inside curve... a curve. If your holowing side grain, you shouldn't have any problems hollowing with a 1/2" or 3/8" I usually hollow out the bulk with a 1/2" bowl gouge and switch to my 3/8" for the last 3-4 cuts. I dont have enough tool control with that big honkin 1/2" gouge!

Unless your turning a "box" you shouldnt have a "transition area" from the walls to the bottom. It should be a smooth continuous curve.

Of course it goes without saying that the tools should be as sharp as you can make them.

[Thom Sturgill]

What grind do you have on the various gouges? Many turners prefer a conventional grind for the 'transition zone' and possibly the bottom, and irish grind for the sides.
Scott, if you are turning face grain orientation, then the outer third you are alternating side grain/end grain and cutting more or less square across the end grain, at the bottom you are cutting just side grain. In the middle or 'transitional' third you are cutting end grain on a bias. This is true whether you are turning a smooth sided bowl or a straight sided box. Note that this refers to the finishing cuts, not the hollowing itself.

[Prashun Patel]

I try to keep the walls smooth so there's no abrupt transition per se, but still, there is a point along that curve at which the transition happens - even if it's a smooth curve. It is at that point that sometimes I can catching.

I'll experiment with different grinds.

[allen thunem]

try using some beefy scrapers
i know they arnt in vogue but they sure can make the job alot easier

[Scott Hackler]

sounds a little like tool presentation, to me. If your right handed... the left wing of the gouge is your biggest concern. That is the part of the tool that will, if any, catch. Swept back wings help a lot but you still have to keep the tool rotated clockwise.

Sure wish you were closer. Its a lot easier to show, then type it out! :)

[Bob Haverstock]

I try to keep the walls smooth so there's no abrupt transition per se, but still, there is a point along that curve at which the transition happens - even if it's a smooth curve. It is at that point that sometimes I can catching.

I'll experiment with different grinds.

Prashun,

One of the things that I have learn about hollowing is that I like long handled heavy bladed tools. I try to keep about 85% of the overall tool length behind the toolrest. When I can, I keep my right elbow close to the end of the tool handle, it's much easier on my tired old body. Most short handled gouges and me just don't get along.

Bob Haverstock

[Reed Gray]

The transition area always causes problems. The steeper the walls are, the more radical the transition will be. Having a short bevel helps. This means grinding off about half of the heel of your gouge bevel. You can also use a smaller gouge as in turn the wall, and the bottom, then use another tool to blend in the transition to the other two areas. If you use a scraper, especially a big (1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch wide), you have to make sure that when going through the transition area, you don't end up with the entire scraper coming into contact with the wood at once, as in going from the side (maybe 1/4 of the tool cutting) then hitting the transition and bottom where you could have 3/4 of the tool cutting at once. This can over power even me. Use a smaller nosed scraper, or use a pull stroke with a round nose, or inside bowl scraper up on its edge at a 45 or more degree angle.

Also, when I am using a gouge through the transition area, I will have the flutes at about 1:30 or 45 degrees away from vertical (rolled away from the cut), and when I hit the transition area, I will roll the flutes over more to 3 o'clock or 90 degrees (on the side). If you have the flutes more vertical when going through this area, the upper wing can end up being in contact with the wood as an unsupported cutting edge, just like coming off the bevel of a skew. Kablooey! Been there, done that, more than once.

robo hippy

[Jeff Nicol]

Prashun, What happens to a lot of turners when they are starting out is that they don't start to make the curve into the bottom soon enough and they end up with an abrupt change to the bottom that does not flow with the curve of the outside. With that you end up with a thin spot and an no continuous curve. Here is a way to teach yourself how to get a continuous curve. When you are close with your roughout make a final depth cut in the bottom and some along the sides that you use a caliper to get the thickness where you want them. Then start at the top and connect all the grooves you created by cutting just to the depth of the grooves, this gives you something to aim at and helps you keep a smooth curve going into the bottom. As long as you do not cut deeper in the areas between the grooves you will get a fairly smooth curve and then you can follow it each successive cut. I hope this does not confuse you to much, but try in on some small pieces and see if you get a good result. Practice is always a good thing, so turn, turn, turn!

Jeff

[Harry Robinette]

Prashun
Something you might try is to put a double bevel on your gouge.I put a 1/16 to 1/8 second bevel on my 3/8" bowl gouge,it stops the tip of the gouge from rising up off the wood when the heal of the tool hits the wood,which when it happens causes us the turner to put more pressure on the tip and BANG catch .It really helped me, I now have a 3/8 bowl gouge thats used in the area only.

[Kelvin Burton]

I bought both the Easy Rougher and Easy Finisher from Craig Jackson at his workshop in KY in October. I have hollowed up to 10" deep (once) with those and haven't experienced any of the problems you are referring to. Maybe I'm just too inexperienced to recognize them, but I love the tools - makes me feel like I'm somehow cheating!

[Al Wasser]

IN this case I suggest practice, practice, practice......... If you still have problems either find a coach or take a class. The folks above gave you good advice. I would add to stay with fairly shallow bowls. I have found that if a bowls depth exceeds 1/2 the diameter, then the degree of difficulty goes up. Deep bowls are still very doable but just harder to get right.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Prashun,
You're not alone in your place on the learning curve. That area presents the most problem to me also as a novice turner. I am sure there are lots of tools built that make the "transfer" area easier but I chalk it up to learning tool control. I think as we learn better feel and tool technique we will expect problems doing certain things and learn to deal with them. I did get help learning the basics but as we get more experienced we try more difficult things and have some problems. To me, learning to solve those problems is part of the journey.
I find I need to change how I present the tool to the wood through the transition from cutting the side of the bowl to the bottom of the bowl. The problem is that the bevel rides the side nicely but the edge can easily become unsupported as we begin going across the bottom of the bowl, especially with a "fingernail" grind. I believe the shortened bevel is why some turners like the conventional grind in that area. The bevel is easier to keep on the wood and therefore you can control your depth of cut.
Even a bowl scraper catches in that spot. Scott Hackler explained why in a previous thread.
Keep on experimenting and trying and you will find what works for you. If you have a copy of David Ellsworth's DVD on the different cuts made using a bowl gouge with fingernail grind, watch it. He goes into the geometry of the positioning of the gouge for various cuts both interior and exterior. Bill Grumbine's video is also helpful. Ellsworth's approach is just a bit different. Have fun, the journey is as important as the arrival.
faust