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View Full Version : Miter Boxes - Sense and Sensibility Long Gone



David Weaver
12-06-2010, 10:52 AM
Contrast this (ebay):

180593827446

with this:

260699038304

I was watching the latter last week after I was looking around last week. Figured it might go low because the listing title doesn't say langdon and it doesn't make it immediately apparent that it's not just a saw (it does if you read the auction description).

I had the first on my watch list, too, hoping that I would be able to find a langdon box to fit a free saw.

I posted a WTB ad on CL the same day and found a box that had a weld (same thing, though, MF 74, just with weld, but a one that doesn't affect how it works) and bought it for $75, a princely sum, but I'm not willing to trudge to fleas left and right to save $40, I'd soon be out that in gas, and the only langdon box I've seen at my local flea was.....$75 with a rusty saw.

Couldn't get one without a saw and have two large simonds saws now, though. No matter, my dad will probably stop by and try to saw a brick with it at some point...after he dulls his by sawing a brick.

Anyway, I just found it interesting enough that someone would pay $350 shipped for one, after wringing my hands last week over buying one with a welded arm for $75 and passing one up (a large one MF 74 or 75 sized, but branded goodell pratt) in palmyra PA in unused condition for $50, I don't feel quite as bad. It's probably still there.

Two lessons to learn,
* if you sell something on ebay, it pays to make the listing clear as a bell and look at prior auctions (i.e., use words the successful auctions used if you are selling the same thing)
* if you don't go to fleas and you want a miter box because of the latest craze, put a WTB in your craigslist - it took me a grand total of a day to find one.

One other odd thing, I swear mike (azmica) who does the excellent job restoring and filing saws sold one last week and it barely went for what one of his tenon saws goes for. Whoever got that got a good deal, not such a great deal for mike, though.

john brenton
12-06-2010, 11:07 AM
That's insane.

Kevin Grady
12-06-2010, 11:25 AM
That's insane.


Yes it is. Sucks because I'm trying to find a decent user miter box/saw and the eb*y lemmings are making that almost impossible. Finding one locally has been impossible.

Bill Houghton
12-06-2010, 11:59 AM
I'm glad I found my Langdon Acme when I did, at the price I paid.

Leaves me wondering if I should sort through the storage shed to see if I have anything to offer during this current fad.

Tulips, Beanie Babies...now miter boxes??

george wilson
12-06-2010, 12:07 PM
David,I have a beautiful Atkins miter saw the same size as that large one that went for bug bucks on Ebay a few weeks ago. Mine is in great shape,and pretty sharp. I have never used it. It must have a blade ABOUT(haven't measured)30" long. Apple handle,no damage anywhere. Any interest? I paid too much for it 25 years ago,but would sell it for less than that other guy.

What's with the miter box craze? I have a new Jorgenson miter box I used to replace moldings inside the house(to save dust making). Other than that,I don't use one.

I DID see last week,a largish Craftsman miter box and original(crappy) saw from the 60's(I guess),not much rust at all, for sale at the local flea market. I didn't ask the price. I'd have to wait till next Saturday to see if it's still there. It was in real good condition,and not broken,though I only glanced at it.

george wilson
12-06-2010, 12:36 PM
P.S. the Craftsman miter box was about the size of the one that just sold in classifieds. BUT!! a PITA to pack up and mail.

David Weaver
12-06-2010, 1:42 PM
I DID see last week,a largish Craftsman miter box and original(crappy) saw from the 60's(I guess),not much rust at all, for sale at the local flea market. I didn't ask the price. I'd have to wait till next Saturday to see if it's still there. It was in real good condition,and not broken,though I only glanced at it.

George - do you have the saw and the matching langdon box or just the saw?

I see a lot more saws without boxes than boxes without saws, and now I have two very old one-patent date 27 inch simonds saws that fit a 2 1/2 size box (like the MF 74s shown in those auctions). Someone has an identical saw with a broken/partly missing tote listed on ebay for $129, no box. Whoever it is is a goof.

My dad is a flea market attendee, and while he's skilled at what he does (he has to make prep pieces for my mom to paint and do a lot of pattern cutting), he has no interest in learning to sharpen saws, so he buys a miter saw when he does something dumb with the one in his box. The saw I begged off of him, he said he paid either $2 or $3 for, and it is arrow straight with teeth that appear to be factory and just barely dulled. The one that came with my box is slightly shorter in height - it's been sharpened a few times but the teeth are all good, which is good, because they are the biggest pain of all saws to sharpen since they have small teeth and a long toothline.

A miter box is nice to use, I guess, I think it is at least when it is a big one. However, I could easily get by without ever having one, and I think the current craze is overblown. I did not pay a lot for the one I already had, which I had long before this current craze, and I think my dad paid about $15 for his langdon box and saw, and it's a big humper.

David Weaver
12-06-2010, 1:46 PM
What's with the miter box craze?

There was an article in popularwoodworking, apparently. I haven't seen it.

Based on the way things are selling on ebay, either the word "langdon" or a preference for old ones must've been in the article.

john brenton
12-06-2010, 1:50 PM
Ahhhhhhh, that explains it. David Chatsworth must use one along with his bench brush. I wish they'd do an article on the usefulness of beat up old auger bits...I'd be sitting on a gold mine.


There was an article in popularwoodworking, apparently. I haven't seen it.

Based on the way things are selling on ebay, either the word "langdon" or a preference for old ones must've been in the article.

David Weaver
12-06-2010, 1:51 PM
Ahhhhhhh, that explains it. David Chartsworth (?) must use one along with his bench brush.

I don't think David was involved in it. I saw the name of the writer on the PWW blog, but don't remember who it was.

john brenton
12-06-2010, 1:54 PM
I know, I was just being cynical.:cool:



I don't think David was involved in it. I saw the name of the writer on the PWW blog, but don't remember who it was.

David Keller NC
12-06-2010, 2:36 PM
All one has to do is be patient - the prices will fall quite a bit in a few months. PWW & Chris Schwarz has tremendous power (though unintentional) to affect the pricing of used tools that they recommend, but it's temporary. And unlike some of the other tools they've covered (like Star marking gauges), there are far too many miter boxes out there to support the current asking price.

Tony Zaffuto
12-06-2010, 2:40 PM
I've got at least 15 miter boxes hanging on the walls of my shop. Bought 'em all dirt cheap years ago, maybe $15 or $20 each. My user is labeled "Craftsmen", but it is really a Langdon. You couldn't give a miter saw (the actual saw) away, let alone get a buck or two for it, a year ago!

Why the interest? Chris Swartz has been mentioning in his "Lost Arts" Blog.

Josh Rudolph
12-06-2010, 2:50 PM
I don't think David was involved in it. I saw the name of the writer on the PWW blog, but don't remember who it was.


Pretty sure it was a Ron Herman article, on why you need a miter box in your shop.

Andrae Covington
12-06-2010, 4:09 PM
Pretty sure it was a Ron Herman article, on why you need a miter box in your shop.

Yep, in the November 2010 issue.

Chris Schwarz talked about his Langdon mitre box on one of the PWW blogs back in January, and I saw the ebay prices start to ramp up. They had dropped somewhat over the months, but with the recent article now things are silly again. In a recent blog post he actually advised against buying them online, instead recommending auctions, garage sales, swap meets, etc.

I made a wooden mitre box to go with a Simonds mitre saw I bought on ebay, but would like to have the "real deal". I periodically check craigslist locally but they don't show up very often and when they do, either the seller has checked ebay prices and thinks that's how much it is worth, or it has been sitting outside underneath a downspout for the past 20 years.:(

geoff wood
12-06-2010, 4:11 PM
i just had a goodell-pratt with a 28" disston saw given to me for free, just cant find any information on it online.

David Weaver
12-06-2010, 4:27 PM
i just had a goodell-pratt with a 28" disston saw given to me for free, just cant find any information on it online.

They are good boxes. Oldtoolheaven (a great site) says they merged in 1931 (they being Millers Falls and Goodell Pratt). I'm guessing that goodell pratt made miter boxes before then.

Is it black and red?

Use it and enjoy it.

David Weaver
12-06-2010, 4:28 PM
I made a wooden mitre box to go with a Simonds mitre saw I bought on ebay, but would like to have the "real deal". I periodically check craigslist locally but they don't show up very often and when they do, either the seller has checked ebay prices and thinks that's how much it is worth, or it has been sitting outside underneath a downspout for the past 20 years.:(

You have to put up a "wanted to buy" on craigslist and shake one loose from someone who wouldn't otherwise list it.

Even if you have to do it once a week for a month or two, at least you won't get hammered price-wise.

Tony Zaffuto
12-06-2010, 5:00 PM
Regardless of how good a miter box may be, chances are you're still going to need to shoot the joint.

David Weaver
12-06-2010, 5:08 PM
Regardless of how good a miter box may be, chances are you're still going to need to shoot the joint.

That's the case with every one I've ever seen, if the end of the board will be exposed, it'll still have to be cleaned up. Hopefully the people who spend $350 on one aren't expecting it to look like the sawn edge from a forrest chopmaster in a good saw.

Gary Herrmann
12-06-2010, 5:09 PM
I've started watching the bay after CS blogs about a tool just to chuckle about the prices going up.

Like some others, I'm really glad I bought my MFLA a few years ago.

Ironically, I've probably used it more for cutting turning stock to length lately more than anything else.

paul cottingham
12-06-2010, 6:52 PM
So how are the mitre boxes that Lee Valley sells in light of this? Are they a good value?
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=43836&cat=1,42884

Tony Zaffuto
12-06-2010, 9:19 PM
How much use is the miter box going to get? What angles are you going to cut? 90s & 45s? Why not just make a wooden miter box and shoot? Miter boxes are more a carpenter's tool than they are a cabinetmaker.

brian c miller
12-06-2010, 9:20 PM
Do you think it was simply b/c it was a "Mitre" saw?

Andrae Covington
12-06-2010, 10:33 PM
Do you think it was simply b/c it was a "Mitre" saw?

Hah yeah could be. That is the spelling on the etch. I'm in the habit of using either-or searches like (miter, mitre).

Bill Houghton
12-06-2010, 10:38 PM
i just had a goodell-pratt with a 28" disston saw given to me for free, just cant find any information on it online.

Some of the Goodell-Pratt boxes are riveted steel. I had two, one of which was warped.

If it's straight and true, no reason it wouldn't make a fine box. The key, I think, is that the saw be guided in front of and behind the stock being cut, and held without excessive play. Oh, and that the angle adjustments be accurate and firm.

David Weaver
12-09-2010, 8:26 AM
140488234733

How do I make a fingernails scracthing a chalkboard noise...

$850.

Cool old box, but with a replacement saw, isn't the price a bit presumptuous?

That takes the cake. I guess we're waiting for a 4 digit price miter box.

Rick Markham
12-09-2010, 12:00 PM
All the collectors must have their fill of Stanley #2's and have moved on to something else now... I'd really like a good miter box and saw, but I can wait nearly indefinitely to avoid those prices.

Bill Houghton
12-09-2010, 12:01 PM
140488234733

How do I make a fingernails scracthing a chalkboard noise...

$850.

Cool old box, but with a replacement saw, isn't the price a bit presumptuous?

That takes the cake. I guess we're waiting for a 4 digit price miter box.

That is a nice box, but I'm not sure I'd pay 57 times more than I paid for mine to get the nice uprights.

I see this kind of thing all the time, though. I've been watching for a couple of small items (Stanley 65's, both: the later marking gauge with the kinda triangular head and the pin that goes diagonally through the beam; and a chamer shave). I frequently see the marking gauges listed as "buy it now" items for 4 to 8 times more than they sell for on deBay and about 40 times what they sell for at garage sales (except, for some reason, my local sales have yet to offer me one of them - just the older No. 65s). The chamfer shaves are more reasonable as Buy It Now items: only about twice the upper end of completed sales.

Tony Zaffuto
12-09-2010, 1:03 PM
Jeez I bought mine cause they were cheap and look neat hanging on the shop walls! Let's see, I don't think I paid much more than $25 to $40 for any of them, and if I can get $250 to $400, well, that's a lot of money!!!!!!

If I wait a bit, maybe I can get $500 to $800 and, well, that's a lot more money!!!!!!

Johnny Kleso
12-09-2010, 1:09 PM
I have a Craftsman/ Langdon you can have for FREE!

You just have to pay shipping........

I'll post a pic later.

Dan Sink
12-09-2010, 3:02 PM
One other odd thing, I swear mike (azmica) who does the excellent job restoring and filing saws sold one last week and it barely went for what one of his tenon saws goes for. Whoever got that got a good deal, not such a great deal for mike, though.

I bought a saw from Mike Azmica about 8 months ago and love it. He does a tremendous job. But his eBay following has gotten big and his saws have gotten pretty expensive. In the last few months, I've seen saws similar to the one I bought go for $100-150. I paid somewhere around $50 for mine with shipping. Its been a long time since I've seen one of his saws go for under $100.

David Weaver
12-09-2010, 3:13 PM
I bought a saw from Mike Azmica about 8 months ago and love it. He does a tremendous job. But his eBay following has gotten big and his saws have gotten pretty expensive. In the last few months, I've seen saws similar to the one I bought go for $100-150. I paid somewhere around $50 for mine with shipping. Its been a long time since I've seen one of his saws go for under $100.

When I was hogging up split-nut brass backed english saws a couple of months ago, I noticed that he had a 10 or 12 inch atkins saw, pretty vanilla looking saw, cleaned well and sharpened, and it was at $185 (and it hadn't ended). That's not just dumb bidders, evidently folks are pretty satisfied with what they're buying to support that price level.

I'm not going to say anything nice about the mid-19th century english saws, because it wouldn't be good for me to do so :D I did get a bunch of them for not much money.

Kevin Grady
12-09-2010, 3:37 PM
I have a Craftsman/ Langdon you can have for FREE!

You just have to pay shipping........

I'll post a pic later.


I have had no luck finding anything locally and price + shipping hasn't been worth it. My zip is 98074

Thanks,
Kevin

Dan Sink
12-09-2010, 5:09 PM
When I was hogging up split-nut brass backed english saws a couple of months ago, I noticed that he had a 10 or 12 inch atkins saw, pretty vanilla looking saw, cleaned well and sharpened, and it was at $185 (and it hadn't ended). That's not just dumb bidders, evidently folks are pretty satisfied with what they're buying to support that price level.

I'm not going to say anything nice about the mid-19th century english saws, because it wouldn't be good for me to do so :D I did get a bunch of them for not much money.

He does a fantastic job and gets a lot of repeat buyers, no doubt about it. He is a real craftsman. I'm happy to see such a skilled craftsman making decent money for his trade, but unfortunately (for me) it means that I've been priced out of the market for now.

Eric Brown
12-09-2010, 6:18 PM
I too have been looking at miter boxes and agree that some of the pricing on E-Bay lately has been a little crazy.

So I had heard that L-N was making replacement miter saws and looked at their site. Lo and behold - they say a miter box will be offered soon!

Might be worth waiting for, even if ends up being a little pricey.

Eric

James Taglienti
12-09-2010, 6:50 PM
Ahhhhhhh, that explains it. David Chatsworth must use one along with his bench brush. I wish they'd do an article on the usefulness of beat up old auger bits...I'd be sitting on a gold mine.

OH!

Hilarious!


I have a miter box. It's a Stanley 100 or something like that. Havent used it... the DeWalt miter saw is set up already.

It works great.

To me a miter box is kind of like a scrub plane- long replaced (and indistinguishable from) better and faster means. Though I would never entirely disrespect neander practice, but really.

.....Let's see if LN comes out with a bronze recast of the Langdon miter box.

Gary Herrmann
12-09-2010, 7:25 PM
I remember checking an inflation calculator based on some prices I saw in the 1949 Miller Falls catalog. I think the nbr 74 was $50 in 1949, which I think was around $450 now. I'm thinking LN will be more than that.

'Course you could just pay the $850 asking price or make an offer for 140488234733 on the bay...

Andrae Covington
01-04-2011, 6:03 PM
Just noticed there's a Langdon miter box with Disston saw buy-it-now for $825. Yeah that's an eight. :eek::rolleyes:

140488234733

Tony Zaffuto
01-04-2011, 6:42 PM
Dave,

I don't know where you are in Western PA, but I'm up in DuBois. Starting in May, flea markets start again in Hazen, PA (Exit 87 on I-80, then travel north about 4 or 5 miles on Route 28). I usually see several miter boxes each month (flea markets are the first weekend of each month, through Oct.). Prices average about $20 bucks including the saw.

Or you could go to the Patina sale this March in Damascus, MD. Usually more than several miter boxes there as well.

T.Z.

Rick Erickson
01-04-2011, 6:55 PM
So I had heard that L-N was making replacement miter saws and looked at their site. Lo and behold - they say a miter box will be offered soon!

Might be worth waiting for, even if ends up being a little pricey.

Eric

I heard last year from a very reliable LN source they were coming out with one. Good to hear they are close. Of course I also heard they were coming out with a plow plane and I haven't seen that one.

Tony Zaffuto
01-04-2011, 7:54 PM
I'd hate to see what the price is on a miter box would be! Remember, a miter box is primarily a carpenter's tool and not a cabinetmaker's. I can make joints as accurate as anyone with a simple, home-made wooden miter jig and a shooting board, although I do like using my Langdon and looking at the 15 other miter boxes hanging on my walls (bought them all dirt cheap at flea markets years ago - $20 to $25 average price).

Mike Brady
01-05-2011, 5:38 PM
Here's my Langdon box after some work on it:http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/finefettle/Woodnet%20images/miterbox002.jpg

David Weaver
01-05-2011, 5:43 PM
That's pretty darned tidy. Glamour shot tidy, I'd say.

David Weaver
01-05-2011, 5:45 PM
Tony - I haven't really seen them around here at my local flea, with the exception of one. It was $75, but well rusted. That's a weekly flea, though, and it's not great for tools. Think the patina sellers will get the note on the going rate for them by the time the show comes around?

Harlan Barnhart
01-05-2011, 5:58 PM
I bought a nice old stanley about two years ago. Good plus condition, straight and sharp saw. I bet my $100 couldn't buy now.

John Powers
01-05-2011, 8:31 PM
I had to have one. Got a nice older craftsman with a disston saw. No matter what I do it will not cut 90 degrees....if you held a gun to my head there'd be brains on the floor. Thank god for that Delta.

David Weaver
01-05-2011, 9:10 PM
Some of the newer boxes aren't so square, or the backs aren't so flat.

You have to shim your boards a little.

But like tony says, it's a construction tool, not a cabinetmaker's tool. It gets you close without a lot of thought and then you can shoot the board or plane to a marking line.

Steve LaFara
01-05-2011, 11:17 PM
Is there a way to date an older Stanley like you can their hand planes? I have one but have no idea of it's age other than it's obviously older than I am.

Joshua Clark
01-05-2011, 11:26 PM
Most of the Stanley mitre boxes have patent dates on them- mostly on the name plate. The last patent date will at least give you the floor of the age range. The Stanley logos (SW, Victory, etc.) also apply to the mitre boxes so that might help as well. As far as I know there haven't been any detailed type studies done.

Josh

Mac Houtz
01-06-2011, 1:26 PM
mine is also one of the later models, I think it is badged as a Craftsman, even though it looks identical to many of the older boxes.(right down to the red bedplates). It was $16 dollars with the extra long saw (26-30" if I had to guess). Both were in great condition at an estate sale.
I have the same issue in that it refuses to cut a true 90 degrees in the 90 degree detent. I have to adjust it to 90 by hand, then cinch it down with the turn knob on the bottom to get a true 90 degree cut.

David Weaver
01-06-2011, 1:30 PM
Can't you find a spot on one side (that is, on the back) or the other where you can just put a credit card or laminate shim? that's what I would do, so you don't have to fool with it every time.

Mac Houtz
01-06-2011, 3:49 PM
David, that's a good idea, I didn't take your meaning with it when you mentioned it earlier. I might give it a shot.