Sharpening with sandpaper

[George Farra]

Hi Everyone

I'm not a complete Neanderthal yet, but have added some necessary hand tools to supplement my power tools, namely:

#4 & 5 bench planes
LA Block plane
Bench & Mortise Chisels

All, at some point will need sharpening. After reading alot of posts on the site about sharpening methods, I've decided to go with sandpaper/plate glass...aka "scary sharp" method

What alternatives are there other than plate glass? I'm somewhat of a cluts and all I can imagine is droping the plate on the ground or dropping something on the plate.

Can corian be used? what about quartz? any other options?

TIA

George

[Trevor Walsh]

I use the show surface of Corian countertop, the non-show side is not as flat. I spray mount slips of sandpaper on them to create "sandpaper bench stones".

[John Seiffer]

I found a piece of glass that I'm pretty sure was tempered in the "As Is" section of IKEA near me. I think it was a top for a night stand or something. Nice beveled edges etc.

[Bill Houghton]

I have a piece of marble countertop picked up for free from somewhere. If you found a place that makes kitchen counters, you could probably have your choice of sink cutouts for cheap, maybe even free, in stone, corian, or whatever. These may not be surface-plate flat, but they'll be close to flat.

I also have a piece of granite that my son picked up from a place that does monuments (headstones and like that), which is also pretty flat, but 4" thick and WAY too heavy for portable use. I'm saving it for the day that I have a big enough shop for permanent mounting somewhere.

I sharpen with oilstones, but like the countertop chunk for flattening plane soles and similar purposes.


I found a piece of glass that I'm pretty sure was tempered in the "As Is" section of IKEA near me. I think it was a top for a night stand or something. Nice beveled edges etc.

I'm not sure if it's required for table-top glass, but tempered window glass made in the U.S. has a little mark stamped in one corner, known, at least locally, as a "bug," probably because it looks like that to someone who wants to clean the window.

[Robert Culver]

1/4 tempered glass is pretty tough stuff lee valley has it pretty reasonable thats what im using now. But if you dont want glass I have seen it done with a number off other things right down to mdf. I was looking around for some other things and I see that tools for working wood has a flating plate they sell for there diamond paste that looks like it would work well also. The # 1 thing here is Flat if you dont start out flat you wont get a good edge. thats my 2 cents worth anyway.....

[Don Dorn]

Frank Klausz argues that melamine is flatter than the float glass that he used. Can't back that up as I don't use that method, but found it interesting.

[Jim Koepke]

I have found 12" granite floor tiles for as little as a buck apiece that work well.

I also bought a piece of granite from a monument shop for $25. It is a little over 4' and about 5" wide by about 4" deep. I made a bench just for it to rest on. I mostly use it with 80 grit PSA paper for smoothing rough blades and such.

You can see it in use here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtmWSkD_fU

jtk

[Mark Baldwin III]

I have a piece of tempered glass and also a granite surface plate. Got the granite from Woodcraft it's about $30.

[Brett Bobo]

+1 on using melamine as Frank suggests as it's flat, lightweight, and comes in various lengths and widths. I'm about to switch from scary sharp to waterstones as I found that although the costs for sandpaper are relatively inexpensive per roll, the replacement of sandpaper is frequent to where over time it becomes costly. There's definitely a place for sandpaper as like others have mentioned, I use it to flatten plane soles and other larger parts. Maybe it's just me but I've found that I get a sharper edge on waterstones than sandpaper, working incrementally between grits up to 2000 grit.

One note on granite or any other natural stone, I've found it very difficult and time consuming to remove self adhesive (PSA) sandpaper, if it's not removed immediately after use. Goo Gone works decently but it takes alot of elbow grease to remove sandpaper that has been left on the granite.

Just my $0.02,
Brett

[Brian Vaughn]

I got a piece of granite from a local place that does countertops...they were just throwing away a bunch of cutoffs and let me pick through and choose the one I wanted. It's about 3'x1.5' and 2 inches thick. And it cost them less to give it to me than to haul it to the dump :D

[Jim Koepke]

One note on granite or any other natural stone, I've found it very difficult and time consuming to remove self adhesive (PSA) sandpaper, if it's not removed immediately after use. Goo Gone works decently but it takes alot of elbow grease to remove sandpaper that has been left on the granite.

I have a few putty knives that work well to scrape the adhesive after a soaking with mineral spirits. One is actually more like a dry wall taping knife.

I have ground bevels on the putty knives.

Still takes a bit of work, but it is done in a few minutes.

jtk

[Mike Nguyen]

Hi George,
I use sand paper to sharpen as well and have a 10"x30" 3/8 thick 11"x28" glass, and 3/4 MDF 10"x24". I used a steel straight edge along with the feeler gauge .0015 and found that the granite and the glass are both not as flat as the MDF. So what I did was put on a few coat of shellac on the MDF and use it instead of glass or granite.
Mike

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have a flat granite slab (purchased at WoodCraft) and it does a good job. I use wet/dry sandpaper and I use water to adhere the paper to the stone. Does an OK job, but not great.

[Randy Briggs]

+1 on using melamine as Frank suggests as it's flat, lightweight, and comes in various lengths and widths. I'm about to switch from scary sharp to waterstones as I found that although the costs for sandpaper are relatively inexpensive per roll, the replacement of sandpaper is frequent to where over time it becomes costly. There's definitely a place for sandpaper as like others have mentioned, I use it to flatten plane soles and other larger parts. Maybe it's just me but I've found that I get a sharper edge on waterstones than sandpaper, working incrementally between grits up to 2000 grit.

One note on granite or any other natural stone, I've found it very difficult and time consuming to remove self adhesive (PSA) sandpaper, if it's not removed immediately after use. Goo Gone works decently but it takes alot of elbow grease to remove sandpaper that has been left on the granite.

Just my $0.02,
Brett

Klingspor has a new product from Woodjoy, Woodsmith or something like that is a rectangular piece of mdf with a nice edge to use for lapping/SS. I think its like $15.

[Johnny Kleso]

I just checked ENCo and prices are about double to what they where last year :(

I think a counter top maker would be my first choice..

My 12"x 18" is a bear to move at 85lbs but it was only $25-$35 plus shipped free with Enco's free shipping codes..
If you join their email list they send you a new code every month.. Maybe It's good time to buy if prices keep rising..

PS: Items must be under 100lbs

[Zahid Naqvi]

You can see it in use here:
jtk

Hey! I finally know what you looks like :D

[Chris Fournier]

Skip the scary sharp as in the long run it's way too expensive. You will blow through sandpaper like crazy. Use waterstones.

Regardless, if you're after a flat surface why mess around with "should be" flat? Go to machine tool supply shop and buy a granite inspection surface - it'll come with a data sheet that shows you how flat it is in microns! They aren't expensive and you can use it to help flatten your plane soles and flatten your waterstones.

[Bob Glenn]

Be cautious with tempered glass. I spent over thirty years working at a factory that tempers glass. Untempered float glass, while more dangerous, is very flat. However, tempered glass may not be flat at all. During the tempering process, the glass panel is heated to a temperature ranging from 1200 to 1400 degrees. At this temperature, the glass is red hot and can deform.

During the quenching process, the glass is cooled very quickly with blasts of air on both sides of the glass. If the air is not balanced, the glass can either dish or dome in the quench section of the furnace.

Float glass in the other hand is extremely flat because after being drawn from the furnace, the molten glass is floated in a tank of molten tin. Tin is heavier than glass, so the glass spreads out in a uniform sheet on top of the tin bath, much the same as water spreading over a level surface.

Probably more than anyone wants to know, just my two cents worth.

[Chris Fournier]

I really appreciated your post Bob! Never to much knowledge.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

I too bought a piece of granite from Woodcraft. Very nice. Came with a computer readout certifying how flat it is. I think I paid $20 with free shipping which was good as it weighs 30 lbs. I use 3M micro abrasive PSA backed sandpaper from Tools for Working Wood (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-MAF.XX&Category_Code=THS). The kit at the very bottom of the list is a good place to start. The adhesive is not difficult at all to remove. And the paper sharpens my irons great!

Prior to the granite I had some float glass from Lee Valley. It came with a stone pond. not flat at all. Dished on one side, crowned on the other.

[glenn bradley]

I put my glass in wooden holders and use it for micron-type grits. The coarser grits I use on tile.

169602

Wow is that an old picture. that's my old C-man contractor saw in the background.

P.s. I use the WorkSharp for everything 2" and under now but the SS setup is still great to have around.

[Greg Portland]

What alternatives are there other than plate glass? I'm somewhat of a cluts and all I can imagine is droping the plate on the ground or dropping something on the plate.I went down to my local tile place and found a tile with a mirror-like surface. Quartz and other 12"x12" tiles would be an example (ground and polished, etc.). I have a sheet of rubber that I put the tile on to prevent sliding on my bench when sharpening. I think each tile was $1 or so.

[Robert Joseph]

I use a piece of soapstone I got from somewhere. Before that I used the table saw table but I always sharpened with oil, not water. It's the flattest thing in my shop.

[John Toigo]

I sharpen a lot of old plane bl;ades and chisels. I am often amazed at the condition of the edge & bevel as left by previous owners. Somewhere or other I picked up a tool steel die plate. I think at an auction in a box of stuff probably. Anyway - it's about 6"x12"x1" and I put sandpaper on two sides with spray adehsive (fixative). I have 100 grit on one side and 600 grit on the other. That's what I use when I get a blade with a really ugly or crooked bevel (or 16). After that I use waterstones but the coarse waterstones are just too soft for that kind of work. I just picked up another die plate a week or so ago.... looks like this:

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x286/Fencer257/9-01-10/P1010244.jpg

[bradley strong]

I know everyone wants to save money, but sharpening equipment is not the place to do it. I used to own a countertop company where we made marble, granite, and solid surface countertops. I can positively tell you that no matter how highly polished the surface is, that stuff is not flat enough. Melamime, MDF, plate glass, Corian, etc. are all not even close to flat when compared to float glass or a granite reference block.

Flat = Sharp. You must flatten your stones before every use. Period. Sandpaper sharpening is mostly a waste of time and money. Stones must be flat to work properly. They can be flattened on a granite reference plate or float glass, but you will get maybe 2 flattenings per sheet of sandpaper. This expense really adds up over time.

Shaptons are really expensive up front due the high cost of the diamond surfacing plate which is the heart of the system and cannot be omitted. The stones are comparable in price to water stones. You need a 1,000 grit and a 16,000 grit. You may want a 6,000 grit if you need to flatten the back of chisels. I recently saw this system demonstrated by Rob Cosman, and it delivers unsurpassed results. Flattening the stones for use only takes a few seconds, and sharpening a plane iron only takes 30 seconds or so using Rob's method. I'm still saving up for Shaptons, but I'm getting them soon. I'm getting very good results with Rob's method using a 1,000/8,000 grit Norton, but I'm eating up sandpaper like crazy and wasting a lot of time flattening stones.

Sandpaper sharpening on glass, oil stones, water stones, Japanese water stones, the brown paper bag trick, and the like are all nonsense compared to Shaptons.

[Robert Culver]

This has been a pretty interesting tread .I just gave up on water stones for a couple of reasons:

1. I live in western NY and don’t own a heated shop yet....
2. They are pretty messy to use in the house....
3. They get hollows in them pretty quickly......
4. I don’t like wasting my wood working time flattening stones all the time....

All this said they do produce a great edge. I have found that I can get a good edge with the scary sharp system though. I got my plate glass from lee valley and they say its flat and it’s guaranteed. I see what people say about the paper being used up fast and it’s a tad pricey. What I plan to do in the LONG run is get a good diamond stone and ceramic stone and stick with my strop. I like to hit all my blades with a good piece of leather. The stropping prolongs the life of the edge I do it before I put them away after a job so there always razor sharp. So I guess my point is once you have the edges of your tools polished and flat keep them like that and you will spend less time sharpening. Eventually you have to fix up the bevels but hey that’s a small price to pay for sharp tools. I have come to find out if your gear is not sharp your more appt have problems