Squaring cabinet during glue up

[Doug Donnell]

I didn't find anything using search so here I go.

I am making my wife cabinets for a butler's pantry. I have carefully cut the parts to consistent size and have successfully glued up (pretty much square!) all the uppers except the largest one. During my dry fit this afternoon I had difficulting getting the last upper fit square (I have determined that I have some slightly bowed pieces).

I have seen many suggestions to check square using diagonal measure, framing squares, etc, and that is pretty self explainatory. What doesn't seem to get discussed much, is what do you do when the glue is in the dados, the pieces are clamped up,

and the case isn't square....

You have maybe a few minutes of open time left with your glue. How does one bend the will of the wood to fit your carefully planned and executed assembly of parts you know in your soul are themselves square and did fine in the dry fit (how can this cabinet NOT BE SQUARE OH NO THE TIME IS SLIPPING AWAY AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!).

In other words, you check for square, it isn't, now what do you do?

Clamp on the diagonal? Big rubber mallet? Chainsaw rage?

I don't think I have ever seen a discussion of what to do if your case isn't square and the clock is ticking... I figure I should probably ask this question before I find myself in that particular time crisis...

What say all yea?

Doug

[Dan Johnson]

I usually clamp on the diagonal when possible. It can sometimes be a challenge with all the other clamps in the way.

[Steve Jenkins]

If you place your clamps so they are on a slight angle it will pull the cabinet into or out of square. I'm not sure I can explain it very well. Lets say your cab is sitting upright with horizontal shelves and you are putting your clamps horizontally. If you check your diagonals and the top left to bottom right diag. is longer than the other slip the right end of all your clamps down just a bit and it will pull that bottom right corner up and move the top left corner down which will shorten the long diagonal. You don't need to move them much maybe as little as offsetting them half the thickness of the shelves. It takes a little practice but you can really square up a cabinet or unsquare it with the positioning of the clamps. If your clamps are vertical and you shift one end so they are angled a bit they will try to go back to vertical as you tighten them so it will rack you cabinet in the same manner. Clear as mud? Try it on a couple pieces of scrap to get a feel for it.

[Bill Huber]

What Steve said, it works for me.

But then my cabinet are never out of square when I glue them up.:D

[Matthew Hills]

You're out of square with just the sides and dadoed shelves?
Are you going to put a back on? Even just a sheet of 1/4" ply dadoed into the back can do wonders for pulling things back into square.

(and don't forget to shim your base when installing everything -- uneven floor will pull things back out of square)

Matt

[Karl Brogger]

Use the face frame, and the back to pull it around.

[Peter Quinn]

What Steve and Karl said pretty much works for me. You adjust your case clamps when gluing up the carcass skewing at a slight angle to get square, add one or two on the long diagonal if the material has some spring or won't behave, usually this is more likely to be necessary on larger boxes IME. And the FF and backs help deal with the rest. I start clamping a FF from one top corner, go down one vertical, then work around the box making adjustments as I go. Same for the backs. I like pocket screws for attaching the FF, and it can help to clamp up dry and run the screws in light, then glue them on. Things slide around less without the glue on there and the pocket screws find the original holes second time in. If I'm in a hurry I just go for it.

[Dan Karachio]

If I see one more woodworking show where they say, "Check for square" then it is perfectly square and they move on, I am going to scream. Just once, once, can't they say, "Oops, it's not square so here is what you do...." Doug and I are not alone obviously, so thank the lord for real world woodworking advice here on SMC! :D

In fact, if I were the Woodsmith Shop, Wood Whisperer or Tommy MacDonald, I would devote an entire episode to squareness. Maybe WoodWhisperer already did? Gee, in a way, The Woodsmith shop guys devote EVERY single one of their shows to being square! Man, was that mean and low, picking on the geeky unhip Woodsmith Shop guys. :D

[Josiah Bartlett]

I like to use miter clamps on the corners of the case, and I also try to glue up the sides and install the back at the same time, since that helps too. If you can't glue the back at the time then you can use it to pull the piece square by using temporary screws to hold it to the case while the glue sets.

[Bas Pluim]

Thanks Steve, that was very helpful.

[glenn bradley]

As Steve said; loosen one of your clamps just enough to "cock" it and re-clamp. I just did this on a rough plywood carcass I am fooling with. Coincidentally, Jeff Miller speaks to this and demonstrates it in video #3 of this series (http://www.finewoodworking.com/subscription/build-a-cherry-bookcase-video-series/) at about the 3 minute, 30 second mark; you have to be logged in.

[John Grossi]

Doug, You did not mention the brand of glue you are using. Titebond sells a couple different types, one has a much longer set time. I think it's in the green bottle and costs twice as much as the original yellow. It definitely works and gives you more time getting your project square. A couple years ago, a woodworking magazine rated all the glues, and I am pretty sure this one was the strongest. John

[Karl Brogger]

I don't ever check boxes for square. If my chop box is cutting square, the frames will be square.

Its not something that is really all that critical. So long as the Frame is square, the box is cut out well, and your semi anal about getting the frame on straight it'll be close enough.

[Keith Hankins]

I have a couple of the 5' bessy clams and put them corner to corner to form an X. I measure corner to corner and if she's out a tad, a simple twist of a andle will bring her back into square. I also have used the bessy joining bracked to join the two together for a book case once. That worked well.

[Alexei Perelet]

I'm going to be doing some built ins for a closet sometime here, that is if this single digit weather ever breaks. My fingers hate this weather in my unheated garage.

Back to the main point, the carcasses were going to be ply with some hardwood (yet to be decided) face frame attached. The plywood will not have any rigidity without the front and back glued in. As long as your face frame is assembled square, it will pull the carcass into square easily, the back panel will help even by itself.

You are worrying about it too much.

[Steve Jenkins]

I don't ever check boxes for square. If my chop box is cutting square, the frames will be square.

Its not something that is really all that critical. So long as the Frame is square, the box is cut out well, and your semi anal about getting the frame on straight it'll be close enough.

That's all well and good if you are using face frames. I do mostly european type cabinetry and when the doors and drawer fronts are inset the box better be square.I can't remember the last time I made a face frame.

[Karl Brogger]

That's all well and good if you are using face frames. I do mostly european type cabinetry and when the doors and drawer fronts are inset the box better be square.I can't remember the last time I made a face frame.

I certainly wouldn't call European style cabinetry the norm, or even common in places in the US.

Are you using backs? How about stretchers? Both square things up as well.

[Doug Donnell]

Some great suggestions folks, thanks. I particularly like the idea of skewing clamps away from the perpendicular since I have had some difficulty getting clamps to stay in place when trying to cross them on the diagonal.

Another trip out to the shop after a couple of days of letting my mind rest has confirmed my main problem is an outward bowed cabinet bottom. The top and sides are square with a framing square on both sides, and I was baffled why the bottom and sides both seemed to be 90+ degrees, which shouldn't be possible. Of course, with the bottom bowed it caused the framing square to rock back and forth within the 90+ angle on both sides. I should have measured the diagonals and I may have figured it out quicker. If the diagonals are equal I will go ahead and glue up, then correct the bow with the face frame.

This is the largest individual cabinet in the project, and I suspect that I will work up a sweat installing it. In hindsight splitting the cabinet in half would make glue up easier and installation much easier....

[Gary McKown]

"...I have had some difficulty getting clamps to stay in place when trying to cross them on the diagonal."

Here's where a set of small blocks with V-notches cut into them comes in handy. Make the "V" slightly less than 90 degrees. In case you need a third or fourth hand to get the clamps in place with these, double-stick tape them to the clamp faces or glue a "roof" over the notch so it will hang on the corner by itself.

[Don Morris]

When I do large FF cabinets I do a dry "put together". Get the sequence down. They usually look OK, everything is usually close to square. When you put the glue in the joints of drawers, etc. seems that's when s__t happens. I often have to use my 8' bar clamp/clamps from one corner to the other corner. That's cattywhampus, to be specific, in order to pull it back to square. If you don't have clamps that can do that, get them. Before glue-up, I use two long thin pieces of wood, I place one on each opposite inside corner facing each other (cattywhampus). Where they meet in the middle, make a mark. After you glue-up, put them back in place and see if the mark is where it should be. I use the long bar clamps to bring the mark to where it should be.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

You guys all suck. I have not ever made a "square" cabinet.... I just make the doors, and hopefully they are just as out of square, and look fine....:)

[Jay Allen]

I certainly wouldn't call European style cabinetry the norm, or even common in places in the US.

Are you using backs? How about stretchers? Both square things up as well.

They are pretty common around here. I have built literally thousands of them over the years, far more than face frame style.

This is a small part of the over 800 that we built for a local school a few years ago. Of course at that volume, we have a better process. A very large piece of equipment called a "case clamp". It is specifically made for building them in larger quantity. They are all square, it makes for much faster installation.

[Karl Brogger]

They are pretty common around here. I have built literally thousands of them over the years, far more than face frame style.

This is a small part of the over 800 that we built for a local school a few years ago. Of course at that volume, we have a better process. A very large piece of equipment called a "case clamp". It is specifically made for building them in larger quantity. They are all square, it makes for much faster installation.

Ah, commercial stuff. Yes that is typically euro here too.

You guys dowel everything together? Pre-glued dowels? Those go together pretty nice with a good CNC operator. Or at least it is sweet when every hole is pre-drilled and ready to roll and all you have to do is press it together and mount the hardware. Staging takes no time at all and its almost idiot proof with a good system.