Brushing on Shellac

[Roy Lindberry]

Can I apply shellac with a brush and not leave brush marks? I have sprayed a ton of furniture with lacquer, but am trying to do some things by hand and want to try shellac. But I'm worried that I won't get a smooth finish with a brush. Am I worried about nothing?

Also, will shellac cloud up and leave rings? If so, is there something to put over it to prevent this?

Thanks for any advice.

[Steve Schoene]

Shellac can be brushed, but the brushes and technique are different from varnish. I like low reservoir brushes like watercolor wash brushes made with Taklon gold bristles. Others like soft fine bristle "mops" that hold more shellac.

The shellac itself should be fresh and thinned to about 1 1/2 lb. to 2 lb. cut for brushing. With those cuts and very fine bristles you won't see brush strokes but you might see misses and overlaps, though with a couple of coats those tend to "average out."

You need to work deliberately but quickly--no apply then spread like varnish. A missed spot must stay missed until the next coat. You do need to be aware of what is happening--for example, if the brush starts to drag, that means STOP and let the prior coat dry a bit more. Persisting could end up with the shellac "rumpling" under the brush. But everything can be fixed, either sanded or redissolved with DNA.

In my experience, water rings are less likely with shellac than with NC lacquer. Shellac's nemisis is alkali household cleaners. Ammonia is a direct solvent for shellac--and can be used to clean spray equipment.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I do precisely what Steve described - he explained the process + issues very succinctly.

However, I'm still lousy-to-mediocre with a brush [pilot error, not equipment failure] and generally use the padding technique when I have flat surfaces. But, I'll brush those surfaces when I plan to rub out the finish - the brush lays down a thicker film than padding, and errant brush strokes are long gone when done. On occasion, I have brushed it, then a "partial" rub-out, with a couple padded passes to complete it.

[Roy Lindberry]

Shellac can be brushed, but the brushes and technique are different from varnish. I like low reservoir brushes like watercolor wash brushes made with Taklon gold bristles. Others like soft fine bristle "mops" that hold more shellac.

The shellac itself should be fresh and thinned to about 1 1/2 lb. to 2 lb. cut for brushing. With those cuts and very fine bristles you won't see brush strokes but you might see misses and overlaps, though with a couple of coats those tend to "average out."

You need to work deliberately but quickly--no apply then spread like varnish. A missed spot must stay missed until the next coat. You do need to be aware of what is happening--for example, if the brush starts to drag, that means STOP and let the prior coat dry a bit more. Persisting could end up with the shellac "rumpling" under the brush. But everything can be fixed, either sanded or redissolved with DNA.

In my experience, water rings are less likely with shellac than with NC lacquer. Shellac's nemisis is alkali household cleaners. Ammonia is a direct solvent for shellac--and can be used to clean spray equipment.


Thanks for the input. I do have a couple of follow up questions though (forgive my ignorance). I have a quart of Zinsser bullseye shellac, but it doesn't tell me what the cut is. Likewise, I'm not sure that even if I knew what it was that I would know how to achieve a 1.5/2 lb cut.

As for the brush, the guy at the hardware store recommended an Amber Fong brush that specifies oil based enamels and varnishes. Do you know anything about that?

Thanks again.

[Roy Lindberry]

I do precisely what Steve described - he explained the process + issues very succinctly.

However, I'm still lousy-to-mediocre with a brush [pilot error, not equipment failure] and generally use the padding technique when I have flat surfaces. But, I'll brush those surfaces when I plan to rub out the finish - the brush lays down a thicker film than padding, and errant brush strokes are long gone when done. On occasion, I have brushed it, then a "partial" rub-out, with a couple padded passes to complete it.

Well, I'm a newbie at hand finishing. What is the padding technique?

[Chris Fournier]

When I brush on varnish or shellac (yuck) I use an incandescent single bulb light to help me with the application. Steve gave you some good guidelines for the brushing but placing a light a few inches above and behind the application area of the horizontal surface that you're working on will allow you to really "see" the finish as it comes off the brush. This is a geat help whe it comes to not pulling a dry brush which makes a fierce mess.

My un-asked for two cents would be to abandon the brushed shellac and go with varnish - it applies much better and is hardier in service.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Thanks for the input. I do have a couple of follow up questions though (forgive my ignorance). I have a quart of Zinsser bullseye shellac, but it doesn't tell me what the cut is. Likewise, I'm not sure that even if I knew what it was that I would know how to achieve a 1.5/2 lb cut.

As for the brush, the guy at the hardware store recommended an Amber Fong brush that specifies oil based enamels and varnishes. Do you know anything about that?

Thanks again.

If it says "shellac" it is 3# cut. If it says "shellac sealer and finish" it is 2# cut dewaxed. The "dewaxed" means exactly what it sounds like - it has been processed to remove the shellac's naturally-occurring wax. This is - generally - only important if you are putting a different material on top of the shellac - some are not compatible with the wax. To avoid any potential problems, I only use dewaxed - usually from flakes, but I always have a can of the Zinnser seal coat on the shelf.

As far as the brush...........well, sorry, but, that's not either type of brush Steve was referring to. You can't get them in any store that has a word like "hardware" in the name, and likely won't get comprehensive woodworking finishing advice from someone that works there - not being critical at all - I go to the Ace near the house 1 - 2 times per week, and those guys are great, but this topic is a different critter.

The ones with the gold Taklon bristles will be found in artist's supply stores, or in higher-end woodworking finishing supplies places. The biggest one I have is only 1-1/2" wide, and costs north of $30. One [not the only] finishing expert is a guy named Jeff Jewitt. Has written books, teaches seminars, and has a store: Homestead Finishing: http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/articles.htm. That's where I get nearly all of my finishing stuff - because I started going there, have always been very happy, and have no reason to change. THere are other good sources too. Anyway - go to that site, and at the top, click on "articles". One of them is Padding Shellac.

As I said, I brush shellac only if I plan on rubbing out - but that's just me. Chris makes some good observations, but since I am rubbing out, the perfection of application is less important. However, I'm not a varnish guy - I love shellac. As you will read in Jeff's article, when padding it on, by the time I get to the end of the item, the beginning section is completely dry, and ready for another coat - goes fast.

Next - the "cut" means this: a 3# cut had 3 # of shellac flakes added to one gallon of solvent [denatured alcohol]. A little bit of high-school algebra will let you figure out how much DA to add to one quart of 3# cut to get to a 2# cut.

Steve made an important, but subtle, point when he said "about 1 1/2 lb. to 2 lb. cut". Notice that he did not give a precise cut, he gave a range. AND - notice that he didn't even give a hard-and-fast range - he said "about".
The "cut" is very flexible, and very forgiving. The only mistake I've made is too heavy a cut - that's kinda an unrecoverable fumble, because it gets gummy, gets ugly, and you need specialized cuss words and sandpaper. If you use a cut that is too thin/light, pretty much the only penalty I've run into is that you have to put more coats on to build a film. I'd guess that the stuff I have in the mason jars is closer to the 1.5# end of the range, but I personally don't go over-the-top with the gram scale when measuring the flakes.

Sorry for the long response, but I had to "mistake" my way up the learning curve, and thought I'd pass along the results of those mistakes.

And - one thing I find that is cool about shellac - it is an evaporative finish [which means it hardens when the solvent evaporates]. It is not a reactive finish [which means that the finish reacts as it is applied, and becomes something else]. So - when you put down the second coat of shellac, you are slightly dissolving the previous coat, which helps even out the film builds. It also mean something else that I really like - when you are done brushing, just put the brush on the shelf, and let it harden. 10 minutes before you want to use it again, stick it in some DA, the shellac on the brush dissolves, and you are ready to go. No......Cleaning....Dadgum.....Brushes. My kinda finish.

[Roy Lindberry]

If it says "shellac" it is 3# cut. If it says "shellac sealer and finish" it is 2# cut dewaxed. The "dewaxed" means exactly what it sounds like - it has been processed to remove the shellac's naturally-occurring wax. This is - generally - only important if you are putting a different material on top of the shellac - some are not compatible with the wax. To avoid any potential problems, I only use dewaxed - usually from flakes, but I always have a can of the Zinnser seal coat on the shelf.

As far as the brush...........well, sorry, but, that's not either type of brush Steve was referring to. You can't get them in any store that has a word like "hardware" in the name, and likely won't get comprehensive woodworking finishing advice from someone that works there - not being critical at all - I go to the Ace near the house 1 - 2 times per week, and those guys are great, but this topic is a different critter.

The ones with the gold Taklon bristles will be found in artist's supply stores, or in higher-end woodworking finishing supplies places. The biggest one I have is only 1-1/2" wide, and costs north of $30. One [not the only] finishing expert is a guy named Jeff Jewitt. Has written books, teaches seminars, and has a store: Homestead Finishing: http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/articles.htm. That's where I get nearly all of my finishing stuff - because I started going there, have always been very happy, and have no reason to change. THere are other good sources too. Anyway - go to that site, and at the top, click on "articles". One of them is Padding Shellac.

As I said, I brush shellac only if I plan on rubbing out - but that's just me. Chris makes some good observations, but since I am rubbing out, the perfection of application is less important. However, I'm not a varnish guy - I love shellac. As you will read in Jeff's article, when padding it on, by the time I get to the end of the item, the beginning section is completely dry, and ready for another coat - goes fast.

Next - the "cut" means this: a 3# cut had 3 # of shellac flakes added to one gallon of solvent [denatured alcohol]. A little bit of high-school algebra will let you figure out how much DA to add to one quart of 3# cut to get to a 2# cut.

Steve made an important, but subtle, point when he said "about 1 1/2 lb. to 2 lb. cut". Notice that he did not give a precise cut, he gave a range. AND - notice that he didn't even give a hard-and-fast range - he said "about".
The "cut" is very flexible, and very forgiving. The only mistake I've made is too heavy a cut - that's kinda an unrecoverable fumble, because it gets gummy, gets ugly, and you need specialized cuss words and sandpaper. If you use a cut that is too thin/light, pretty much the only penalty I've run into is that you have to put more coats on to build a film. I'd guess that the stuff I have in the mason jars is closer to the 1.5# end of the range, but I personally don't go over-the-top with the gram scale when measuring the flakes.

Sorry for the long response, but I had to "mistake" my way up the learning curve, and thought I'd pass along the results of those mistakes.

And - one thing I find that is cool about shellac - it is an evaporative finish [which means it hardens when the solvent evaporates]. It is not a reactive finish [which means that the finish reacts as it is applied, and becomes something else]. So - when you put down the second coat of shellac, you are slightly dissolving the previous coat, which helps even out the film builds. It also mean something else that I really like - when you are done brushing, just put the brush on the shelf, and let it harden. 10 minutes before you want to use it again, stick it in some DA, the shellac on the brush dissolves, and you are ready to go. No......Cleaning....Dadgum.....Brushes. My kinda finish.

Thanks so much for all of the info.

Now I'm deciding if I want to proceed with shellac...or go with varnish. I've not used either before, so we'll see. I'm going to read the article right now, and that may help. Once again, thanks.

[Darius Ferlas]

I seem to be one of very few select dummies when it comes to shellac. I tried brushing it and wiping it on. A skill that is apparently not such a big deal to many, is unattainable to me.

But I didn't give up on shellac as it is much too useful to eliminate from one's finishing arsenal. I gave up on brushing it and I got myself a cheap HVLP system from HF. Now shellac is among my favorite finishes and the application is easy.

[Roy Lindberry]

If it says "shellac" it is 3# cut. If it says "shellac sealer and finish" it is 2# cut dewaxed. The "dewaxed" means exactly what it sounds like - it has been processed to remove the shellac's naturally-occurring wax. This is - generally - only important if you are putting a different material on top of the shellac - some are not compatible with the wax. To avoid any potential problems, I only use dewaxed - usually from flakes, but I always have a can of the Zinnser seal coat on the shelf.

As far as the brush...........well, sorry, but, that's not either type of brush Steve was referring to. You can't get them in any store that has a word like "hardware" in the name, and likely won't get comprehensive woodworking finishing advice from someone that works there - not being critical at all - I go to the Ace near the house 1 - 2 times per week, and those guys are great, but this topic is a different critter.

The ones with the gold Taklon bristles will be found in artist's supply stores, or in higher-end woodworking finishing supplies places. The biggest one I have is only 1-1/2" wide, and costs north of $30. One [not the only] finishing expert is a guy named Jeff Jewitt. Has written books, teaches seminars, and has a store: Homestead Finishing: http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/articles.htm. That's where I get nearly all of my finishing stuff - because I started going there, have always been very happy, and have no reason to change. THere are other good sources too. Anyway - go to that site, and at the top, click on "articles". One of them is Padding Shellac.

As I said, I brush shellac only if I plan on rubbing out - but that's just me. Chris makes some good observations, but since I am rubbing out, the perfection of application is less important. However, I'm not a varnish guy - I love shellac. As you will read in Jeff's article, when padding it on, by the time I get to the end of the item, the beginning section is completely dry, and ready for another coat - goes fast.

Next - the "cut" means this: a 3# cut had 3 # of shellac flakes added to one gallon of solvent [denatured alcohol]. A little bit of high-school algebra will let you figure out how much DA to add to one quart of 3# cut to get to a 2# cut.

Steve made an important, but subtle, point when he said "about 1 1/2 lb. to 2 lb. cut". Notice that he did not give a precise cut, he gave a range. AND - notice that he didn't even give a hard-and-fast range - he said "about".
The "cut" is very flexible, and very forgiving. The only mistake I've made is too heavy a cut - that's kinda an unrecoverable fumble, because it gets gummy, gets ugly, and you need specialized cuss words and sandpaper. If you use a cut that is too thin/light, pretty much the only penalty I've run into is that you have to put more coats on to build a film. I'd guess that the stuff I have in the mason jars is closer to the 1.5# end of the range, but I personally don't go over-the-top with the gram scale when measuring the flakes.

Sorry for the long response, but I had to "mistake" my way up the learning curve, and thought I'd pass along the results of those mistakes.

And - one thing I find that is cool about shellac - it is an evaporative finish [which means it hardens when the solvent evaporates]. It is not a reactive finish [which means that the finish reacts as it is applied, and becomes something else]. So - when you put down the second coat of shellac, you are slightly dissolving the previous coat, which helps even out the film builds. It also mean something else that I really like - when you are done brushing, just put the brush on the shelf, and let it harden. 10 minutes before you want to use it again, stick it in some DA, the shellac on the brush dissolves, and you are ready to go. No......Cleaning....Dadgum.....Brushes. My kinda finish.

Ok, so I decided to go with shellac, but padding rather than brushing. I've been working for a few days now and there is definitely a learning curve, but I think I'm getting it.

But here is my new problem. My finish wasn't looking all that great (due to early mistakes), so I stripped it off and started over. In general, the finish is looking great now, except there are a couple of spots that don't seem to be taking it this time around. I say that because I'm using amber shellac and these spots are not coloring in with the rest of the board. But they did the first time around.

Any suggestions?

[John Coloccia]

Unless you're using amber for grain popping (in which case you may even sand it back after application), it's always a good idea to lay down a thin sealer coat of clear shellac before proceeding with the amber....just like you would before stain, for example. It will greatly even the coloring of the piece.

Anyhow, you probably just didn't quite get all of the finish off, and the spots you're seeing are spots where you have a bit of old finish.

[Chris Friesen]

As far as the brush...........

The ones with the gold Taklon bristles will be found in artist's supply stores, or in higher-end woodworking finishing supplies places. The biggest one I have is only 1-1/2" wide, and costs north of $30.

Tools For Working Wood has ox-hair brushes that are great for shellac/lacquer/varnish. The 2" is $42, and the 3" is $63. They hold a fair bit of finish and deal with edges nicely.

The DaVinci 5080 Golden Taklon brushes are available at Wood Essence Distributing, up here in Canada. The 40mm is $29 and the 50mm is $36 but they have other sizes as well. I haven't used the brushes, but I've dealt with them for other supplies and service was excellent.

[Roy Lindberry]

If it says "shellac" it is 3# cut. If it says "shellac sealer and finish" it is 2# cut dewaxed. The "dewaxed" means exactly what it sounds like - it has been processed to remove the shellac's naturally-occurring wax. This is - generally - only important if you are putting a different material on top of the shellac - some are not compatible with the wax. To avoid any potential problems, I only use dewaxed - usually from flakes, but I always have a can of the Zinnser seal coat on the shelf.

As far as the brush...........well, sorry, but, that's not either type of brush Steve was referring to. You can't get them in any store that has a word like "hardware" in the name, and likely won't get comprehensive woodworking finishing advice from someone that works there - not being critical at all - I go to the Ace near the house 1 - 2 times per week, and those guys are great, but this topic is a different critter.

The ones with the gold Taklon bristles will be found in artist's supply stores, or in higher-end woodworking finishing supplies places. The biggest one I have is only 1-1/2" wide, and costs north of $30. One [not the only] finishing expert is a guy named Jeff Jewitt. Has written books, teaches seminars, and has a store: Homestead Finishing: http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/articles.htm. That's where I get nearly all of my finishing stuff - because I started going there, have always been very happy, and have no reason to change. THere are other good sources too. Anyway - go to that site, and at the top, click on "articles". One of them is Padding Shellac.

As I said, I brush shellac only if I plan on rubbing out - but that's just me. Chris makes some good observations, but since I am rubbing out, the perfection of application is less important. However, I'm not a varnish guy - I love shellac. As you will read in Jeff's article, when padding it on, by the time I get to the end of the item, the beginning section is completely dry, and ready for another coat - goes fast.

Next - the "cut" means this: a 3# cut had 3 # of shellac flakes added to one gallon of solvent [denatured alcohol]. A little bit of high-school algebra will let you figure out how much DA to add to one quart of 3# cut to get to a 2# cut.

Steve made an important, but subtle, point when he said "about 1 1/2 lb. to 2 lb. cut". Notice that he did not give a precise cut, he gave a range. AND - notice that he didn't even give a hard-and-fast range - he said "about".
The "cut" is very flexible, and very forgiving. The only mistake I've made is too heavy a cut - that's kinda an unrecoverable fumble, because it gets gummy, gets ugly, and you need specialized cuss words and sandpaper. If you use a cut that is too thin/light, pretty much the only penalty I've run into is that you have to put more coats on to build a film. I'd guess that the stuff I have in the mason jars is closer to the 1.5# end of the range, but I personally don't go over-the-top with the gram scale when measuring the flakes.

Sorry for the long response, but I had to "mistake" my way up the learning curve, and thought I'd pass along the results of those mistakes.

And - one thing I find that is cool about shellac - it is an evaporative finish [which means it hardens when the solvent evaporates]. It is not a reactive finish [which means that the finish reacts as it is applied, and becomes something else]. So - when you put down the second coat of shellac, you are slightly dissolving the previous coat, which helps even out the film builds. It also mean something else that I really like - when you are done brushing, just put the brush on the shelf, and let it harden. 10 minutes before you want to use it again, stick it in some DA, the shellac on the brush dissolves, and you are ready to go. No......Cleaning....Dadgum.....Brushes. My kinda finish.

Well, your post was a ton of help. I finally finished the project, and you can see it here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?155414-My-first-Neander-Project&p=1591623#post1591623) on the Neanderthal forum. Lots of mistakes with the Shellac, but all in all, I'm happy. And I think I might continue using it, because it was fun to use. My only concern is that it may not be as durable as other finishes. But we'll see.

[Jim Becker]

What I'll add to this thread is: PRACTICE. Shellac is not expensive and you really need to get a "feel" for working with it for brushing before you start on that important project. Prepare some wood like you would for any project and have at it. And not just small surfaces...use some scrap or utility plywood panels, too, so you can understand what it takes to brush out on a larger surface.