Harbor Freight forstner bits

[Derek Voigt]

I have a set of forstner from harbor freight and several of them are now very dull. Is it worth trying to sharpen them or should I just replace them? I think I just paid $20 for the set of 16 about 3-4 years ago.

I have a little diamond file that I use to flatten the backs of them to clean them up, but they need more then that at this point. Or should I replace them with higher quality bits as needed?

Thanks,
Derek

[Ted Wong]

This might be pertinent to the discussion

From Bridge City Tools Website:


$5 for a 1/8″ Twist Drill? Only in America…
October 25th, 2010
“The more powerful and original a mind, the more it will incline towards the religion of solitude.” –Aldous Huxley

This morning, during my morning routine of purging… junk mail from my inbox, I took a break and read the latest blog post by Chris Schwarz–who happens to be a writer that sounds like Tom Brokaw when he speaks.

This post reinforces the belief that conversations amongst kindred spirits are best lubricated with beer–surely beer is the foundation of all folklore.

But I digress. I shared the following experience with Chris via email today and thought it worthy of the Drivel Starved Nation.

Do you think Americans would pay $5 for a 1/8” twist drill?

You bet. By the tens of thousands times ten. And as unbelievable and absurd as it sounds, here is how.

About 10 years ago I was in an OEM Chinese factory that made bench grinders. You have seen them, ½ HP motor, two 6” grinding wheels, pig tail cord, a small plastic face shield and no nameplate—these would be attached by the American companies that bought them. The total cost per grinder, landed in the US was $7.15. Of course at this price it would be asking too much for a UL tag.

These grinders were, and still are being sold here and the prices range from $49 to $200– awesome margins by any standard.

Behind the factory floor there was a small mountain of insulated wire that had been pulled from old cars, appliances, televisions and the like and it was replenished daily. Surrounding the wire mountain were a couple of dozen women who were stripping the wire of insulation. These wire remnants were then spliced together and used in the grinder motor windings. Completely illegal, and dangerous. But cheap.

I thought I was shocked until I walked into the factory section that made twist drill bits. Here they were making, for the AMERICAN MARKET, those 59, 89, 119 pc drill sets found at the box stores and other discount joints for $19.95. Again, there were rows of women who were dipping the bits in what looked like Easter egg dye.

I asked the interpreter what they were doing. He replied, “They are making all the bits the same color as these four.” The four bits he pointed out were the 1/8”, ¼”, 3/8” and the ½”.

I asked why.

I learned that those four bits were properly hardened. The remaining 115 bits were made with what I call pot metal. The reason?

“Because those are the only four hole sizes that Americans use.”

I asked, as politely as I could, if there was any guilt or remorse for duping their American customers. The reply was shocking.

“In America, if it cost less than $20, nobody complains about quality—everybody in China knows this.”

So for those that complain about prices, you should be screaming mad if you have purchased one of these deals because your twenty bucks just likely purchased the four most expensive twist drills you will ever own. And in so doing, have made it that much more difficult for honest companies to compete.

More recently, I found myself at the local paint shop to purchase a Purdy paint brush—I have always liked them. So when I walked into the store I asked the sales rep to show me the most expensive brushes…

“I don’t get asked that very often..” he replied.

I then learned that the cheapest brushes outsell the flagged end bristle brushes by about 20 to one. The reason?

So people can throw them away rather than clean them.

And I am here to report that properly cleaning (and storing) a well-made paint brush is an honor for a tool that will last a lifetime.

In short, we are the world’s worst consumers and those that complain about prices are likely leading the chorus.

Obviously, as a member of the DSN, you are dancing to the beat of a different drummer, or, you are here because of my awesome and totally professionally rendered cartoons…

Either case I thought you might find my experiences enlightening.

–John

Posted in Behind the Scenes | 20 Comments »

[David Christopher]

WOW, did that answer you question ???

[Jack Pinkham]

I have a set of forstner from harbor freight and several of them are now very dull. Is it worth trying to sharpen them or should I just replace them? I think I just paid $20 for the set of 16 about 3-4 years ago.

I have a little diamond file that I use to flatten the backs of them to clean them up, but they need more then that at this point. Or should I replace them with higher quality bits as needed?

Thanks,
Derek

The HF titanium nitride-coated HSS set is about $40, or $30 with a coupon.http://www.harborfreight.com/16-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-forstner-bit-set-39812.html
I just bought a set of plug cutters made in Montana, USA so don't shoot me for offering this suggestion.
http://www.montanabrandtools.com/

[Andrew Arndts]

Get a different file with a more aggressive milling. use them for practice sharpening. But get the new ones regardless.

[Don Dorn]

Based on that - I've learned I'm one of the guilty ones. I just bought four plug cutters from HF and when trying to use the first one, thought I was going to bend the handle on the drill press to get it to even go into pine.

That write up is a wake up call because it describes me - will change course for a couple of the reasons outlined.

[glenn bradley]

In general I avoid purchasing things from HF that meaure or cut. They do have a number of diamonds in the rough as are frequently discussed here; drill bits, router bits and so forth are not one of them in my experience.

That being said, I do sharpen my Forstners. There are kits for this.
One on sale right now I believe from somewhere . . . let me look . . . Ah, item 4174 form Peachtree: http://www.ptreeusa.com/sharpening.htm but, I get by with an Auger Bit file: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32954&cat=1,43072,43089 and a diamond rod: http://www.leevalley.com/US/garden/page.aspx?p=57182&cat=2,2160,40710

Google "how to sharpen a forstner bit" and you will get plenty of hits on various methods. As to whether it is worth your time? If they have lasted a few years I would give it a go. I do find places like HF and MLCS to be a good source for items I want to try; if they prove useful, I replace them with good ones.

[Dave Tesch]

i have been buying freud forstners, unfortunately only one at a time. the ones i have cost $12 to $19 each, and i am glad to have them; they do have some multiple packs for $30 (4 bits?)

[Dan Hintz]

Picked up a package of spade bits from HF a couple of years back... either I had the hardest pine 2x4 in existence, or these things can't cut hot butter. They will be replaced the next time I need a spade...

[Jack Pinkham]

Picked up a package of spade bits from HF a couple of years back... either I had the hardest pine 2x4 in existence, or these things can't cut hot butter. They will be replaced the next time I need a spade...

The titanium-nitride coated extended spur set from HF cuts much better than the uncoated flat Stanley set I previously used.

[glenn bradley]

The titanium-nitride coated extended spur set from HF cuts much better than the uncoated flat Stanley set I previously used.

Do I detect another diamond in the rough to add to the list?

[David Weaver]

I have also been using a $9 set of spade bits, pretty much two of them - 7/16 and 9/16. I have drilled countless totes and knobs with them and they work fine.

For things like twist drills, I would get made in US sets if they weren't such a mint cost. They are aimed at people who are either using a corporate account or who are buying in volume and getting a discount.

When I was younger, all of the stuff like that was made in the US, most of it properly made, and there were versions that were a whole lot less cost than the inflation reduced price of the stuff now.

There are a lot of reasons for that, but it doesn't matter what they are, reasonable priced US made tools are no longer made in the US.

[Noah Katz]

Behind the factory floor there was a small mountain of insulated wire that had been pulled from old cars, appliances, televisions and the like and it was replenished daily. Surrounding the wire mountain were a couple of dozen women who were stripping the wire of insulation. These wire remnants were then spliced together and used in the grinder motor windings.

I find that hard to believe, and will consider it urban legend until someone says they've actually seen it

[John Seiffer]

I have a different story of tool manufacturers. A few years back I was an investor in a company that made a cart for maintenance people to carry their tools - each tool in a separate pocket, labeled and visible so the worker (or the boss) could to an inventory in 30 seconds and make sure each tool was there.

They sold this thing full of tools (everything from drill bits, to pliers, to chisels and screwdrivers) and didn't want crap, but didn't care who made it - they wanted the best tool for each each pocket. They also preferred to buy American if they could. At all the trade shows they found the American company reps unhelpful and not interested in helping a new company get their business. The reps for Chinese companies bent over backwards to help and answer questions. When they put the tools to the test they stacked up very well.

Sure there's crap made in Asia. But the idea that everything there is crap has gotten American companies (from Xerox to GM) in trouble.

[Jack Pinkham]

On another forum a member who worked at Boeing related his experience with Chinese products. To assure financing for a new aircraft Boeing had to distribute portions of the fabrication to each country that was participating financially. China was to fabricate a part of the fuselage. The Boeing team was fearful that the Chinese part would be below Boeing quality standards and made plans to quietly discard the Chinese part for one made in house.
When the part arrived Boeing engineers were surprised to see that the finish and tolerances were better than anything they had produced themselves.

[Phil Thien]

I find that hard to believe, and will consider it urban legend until someone says they've actually seen it

I agree. The wire in a motor is magnet wire (varnished). You can't use uninsulated wire.

[Dan Hintz]

Not to mention they couldn't exactly solder bits of wire together and keep a uniform profile...

[Mike Harrison]

Noah wrote

I find that hard to believe, and will consider it urban legend until someone says they've actually seen it
I agree 100%!!

I lived, and worked the orient for ten years, and was the director of engineering for a pretty large electronics company. I easily toured more than a hundred factories throughout Asia during my time there, and never saw anything like what was described. These types of stories are truely "urban legend", and poor ones at that.

To the OP,

I have a large set of HF Forstners I bought maybe 8 or 9 years ago. I have since had to sharpen a couple of them. They are sharpened not unlike the way you sharpen traditional wood bits or ship augers.
http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv62/mikeinkcmo/WW%20tools/Shop%20tools%20and%20Jigs/Bits01.jpg

[Thomas Delpizzo]

It's like everything else: you've got to educate yourself on the product. Sure, Harbor Freight carries a lot of sub-quality tools, but they do have some gems in there. They're also great if you plan to use a tool for only an occasional job where you do not want to make a large investment. For items you may use more of or want a higher quality item, you'll shop elsewhere. Do you think a HF plane is going to compare with your Lie-Nielson? Keep in mind, that the tool may not function as well either. You do "get what you pay for". I'm not a fan of those tools that could put me in a dangerous situation such as impact sockets (the walls seem rather thin), but I've purchased of number of decent quality things too. (in fact their HVLP spray guns are pretty good!) After all, you can just go into HD, Sears, Lowe's etc and you'll recognize the same items at a higher cost.
As a side note, Walmart, (remember when they advertised that their goods were American made?) made huge profits selling these cheaply made goods. Now Walmart can't survive without them- as are almost all other retailers.

[Derek Voigt]

So moral of the story... it is worth a shot at sharpening them.

As for the whole Asia/America thing... I have work with a bolt supplier in Asia that produced some of the crappiest looking bolts I have ever seen.... and I worked with a machine shop in Asia that produced better machined aluminum samples then an local shop I had to deal with.... packaged better, inspected 100% of the dimensions on all parts, and was faster (even with shipping times)... for what its worth.

[Paul Steiner]

I have a set of hf forstners for my classroom and sure only 1/4" to 1 1/2" get used on a regular basis. But those have stood up to 3 years of abuse and I am very happy with them. I have a set of porter cable forstners I have not had to open up because the HF bits are still good to go.
Sharpening is really balancing your time vs. the cost of a new bit. I think your time is worth at least 10 bucks an hour, so if you think it will take you longer than that buy a new bit.
Personally if I have to buy forstners to replace what I have I would replace 1 at a time with a frued bit or buy a small set of 1/4" to 1".