Okay, tell me one more time why...

[Mike De Luca]

I'm putting together my woodworking and motorcycle shop in the basement and need a recommendation on what type of line to run from my compressor (typical CH 20 gallon horizontal oil type) to my Cox hose reel.

The run is about 6 feet up the wall and over across the ceiling about 15'.

I used PVC on my last installation in the old shop which held up for 25 years. I've since heard that the PVC was a safety issue and have decided not to use it again.

So, I thought I'd run some 1.5" PVC conduit from the compressor to the hose reel and run regular air hose through it.

I've been told to use copper pipe.

I've been going over the pros and cons and just can't put my head around anything but the air hose.

Copper
Advantages: It will last virtually forever. Can install the drains and hookups.
Disadvantages: Pain to install. OMG... the stuff will run about $100 to run in 3/4". It will become contaminated with oil over time. Hard to clean or replace.

Galvanized
Advantages: Won't rust, can easily install the drains and hookups.
Disadvantages: Same price as copper and will become contaminated with oil over time. Hard to clean or replace.

Black Pipe
Advantages: Cheaper than copper or galvanized. Can easily install the drains and hookups.
Disadvantages: Will rust and will become contaminated with oil over time. Hard to clean or replace.

Air Hose Through Conduit
Advantages: Cheap and easy to run. Can hook up to short drain piece with valve without too much trouble. Cheap and easy to replace when it becomes contaminated with oil.
Disadvantages: Won't last as long.

I just don't see why (especially for this short run) there is any compelling reason to use copper, galvanized, or black pipe.

Clue me in if I'm missing something major...

What about PEX...?

Thanks for reading and commenting...

[Karl Brogger]

What about PEX...?


PEX is awesome. Cheap. Easy to modify or make additions to.

I put up almost 300' of PEX in my new shop in about a day and a half. Most of the time was spent putting up clips. It only took a few hours to run the pipe itself. I don't think I spent more than $500 on everything.

If you want to add a drop, just cut it, insert a "T" fitting, and crimp it. Done

There is one downside that I have experienced with it. In my old shop everything was ran in steel pipe, which acted a bit like a cooler. I had a length of pipe below where the feed from the compressor went into the system that acted like a water trap. The air would cool, and condense most of the water out before it got to the rest of the pipe. The PEX doesn't get do that and I've got some serious water issues.:mad:

Until I can get a new compressor I'm just going to install one of those water traps. If that doesn't do the job I'm going to build a simple condenser out of copper.

[Ted Wong]

If you go polymer route pex actually sounds like a good idea although I'm not sure what pressure it is rated to. And should you ever go to a bigger compressor it might not work out with higher psi.
Of the choices you listed I'd probably opt for galvanized if it were my shop. Mostly because I have an aversion to PVC because it is so toxic to manufacture.
In a shop I used to work in all the compressed lines were Galvanized pipe and it seemed to work out fine. ALthough I never did look into their pipes to see if oil contamination was an issue as you mention. But isn't that what inline filters are for?

[Karl Brogger]

My compressor kicks off at 170psi.

I don't remember the ratings, but it was plenty for anything in a woodshop, or general mechanics shop.

[Neil Brooks]

If you go polymer route pex actually sounds like a good idea although I'm not sure what pressure it is rated to.

IIRC, Pex is good for up to 150psi.

[Karl Brogger]

IIRC, Pex is good for up to 150psi.

I think that's at a fairly high/uncomfortable temperature I think. Like 180*F

[Neil Brooks]

I think that's at a fairly high/uncomfortable temperature I think. Like 180*F

Nah. You're a'zacly right.

The max PSI is stupid high, and can be found here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEgQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alliedpex.com%2FLITERATURES%2 FMaterial_Specification_Sheet_O2_EVOH_Barrier_PEX. pdf&rct=j&q=pex%20maximum%20psi&ei=i7n5TOTfM4j2tgPWyInHCA&usg=AFQjCNFg4eN8dmXm2IftXc8Xs1PpefNv_Q).

[hope that link works....]

[Jack Pinkham]

HDPE pipe such as Asahi-America Air-Pro may be legal in your area:

Description:
http://www.asahi-america.com/documents/documents/Asahi-English/2010%20Air%20Pro%20Catalog.pdf

Pricing:
http://www.alscoplastics.com/asahi_airPro_s/55.htm

On a closer look, this is a welded system, not glued. Probably not practical for a typical DIYer.

[Callan Campbell]

Why are you worried about cleaning the inside of your airlines, no matter what the material is that you've used? As stated, the filters that you should be using will take care of that if correctly sized, placed/installed and of the type needed.
Copper, VERY easy to install. Once you get the hang of torching your fittings, it's a breeze. Looks nice too.
Iron/Steel pipe, heavier, may require a threading die to make threads on the end of a needed length of pipe, but it's durable and still industrial tried and true, my fav after all these years. I've taken apart 30 year old galvanized air lines that still looked really good inside.
PVC, don't go there. Hit some with a hammer to see what happens.
PEX and other flex lines, getting more popular all the time with the right material that's rated for the pressure of the system that will be used. Single stage compressors usually run at 125-135psi max, so it's a safer fit if a max limit of 150psi is a concern. Two stage compressors with their higher output may have some cause for concern or fact checking.;)
The concern about water and rubber or other flex lines is something I've seen too when a metal line would have performed better at cooling the air and allowing moisture to drop out easier. That's why it's not recommended to just run a flex line/rubber hose straight off your compressor if you can help it, since water vapor is going straight out of the tank and into the air tool being used since it never had time to cool/condense and be trapped in a filter .
So, I vote for using metal as your first choice, or PEX as your second, but allow for or add a water trap before your end run air filter unit to help reduce water vapor removal load on the filter at the end of your run.
Oil loss into the piping isn't usually a real issue unless your pump rings are worn or not that tight to being with. If you're spraying finishes and are really worried about oil contaim., get a second hose to use ONLY with the spray gun, and add a nice oil removing filter[coalescing? I think] that you pipe into the system as a second tier or split next to the regular filter and regulator. This way you only use it as needed, and don't add any possible oil cleaning load to it unless you're hooked up for spraying.
Anyway, that's how I'd do it.:)

[Mike De Luca]

Thanks everyone for your input.


Why are you worried about cleaning the inside of your airlines, no matter what the material is that you've used? As stated, the filters that you should be using will take care of that if correctly sized, placed/installed and of the type needed.
Copper, VERY easy to install. Once you get the hang of torching your fittings, it's a breeze. Looks nice too.
Iron/Steel pipe, heavier, may require a threading die to make threads on the end of a needed length of pipe, but it's durable and still industrial tried and true, my fav after all these years. I've taken apart 30 year old galvanized air lines that still looked really good inside.
PVC, don't go there. Hit some with a hammer to see what happens.
PEX and other flex lines, getting more popular all the time with the right material that's rated for the pressure of the system that will be used. Single stage compressors usually run at 125-135psi max, so it's a safer fit if a max limit of 150psi is a concern. Two stage compressors with their higher output may have some cause for concern or fact checking.;)
The concern about water and rubber or other flex lines is something I've seen too when a metal line would have performed better at cooling the air and allowing moisture to drop out easier. That's why it's not recommended to just run a flex line/rubber hose straight off your compressor if you can help it, since water vapor is going straight out of the tank and into the air tool being used since it never had time to cool/condense and be trapped in a filter .
So, I vote for using metal as your first choice, or PEX as your second, but allow for or add a water trap before your end run air filter unit to help reduce water vapor removal load on the filter at the end of your run.
Oil loss into the piping isn't usually a real issue unless your pump rings are worn or not that tight to being with. If you're spraying finishes and are really worried about oil contaim., get a second hose to use ONLY with the spray gun, and add a nice oil removing filter[coalescing? I think] that you pipe into the system as a second tier or split next to the regular filter and regulator. This way you only use it as needed, and don't add any possible oil cleaning load to it unless you're hooked up for spraying.
Anyway, that's how I'd do it.:)

Callan, this is exactly what I was looking for. I do spray from time to time and don't want oil in the line. I've always used filters right off the compressor and never had a problem, but then I could also get to my old lines to replace, if need be, easily. In this shop I won't be able to. I can sweat a joint... just didn't want to drop the cash for copper. It seems copper would be the better choice given its the same price as galvanized. I've only priced it at Lowe's. I'll try a plumbing house for a comparison.

[David Thompson 27577]

{you said a bunch of stuff, including.......}

"It will become contaminated with oil over time."

{and you said that about all of the options other than the air hose option}



And so my question to you is, why will the air hose not get contaminated with oil over time?

FWIW, my vote would be for copper. If you put a drain at the bottom of every vertical run, the problems of oil and water will be moot.

[Marty Paulus]

My vote would be for copper. I am planning on this set up for my compressor as well. Flexible run to the copper then place the Filter after the copper. Having the filter straight off the compressor doesn't do much.

[ian maybury]

Hi Mike. Just a thought. I mixed motorcycle and woodwork in the same workshop for quite a few years and would have to say that they are not easy bedfellows. You're probably not starting either activity from scratch, and so know the deal - but I'd be cautious and would want to think my arrangements through very carefully....

ian

[Jack Pinkham]

PEX-AL-PEX might be a better choice than PEX. Check with manufacturer before using it.

[David Woodruff]

I installed I" PVC, thick wall, 250 psi 15 years ago and no problems. I would do it again and have in a garage where I wanted an air supply. Ran it underground thru 3" plastic conduit. I did quite a bit of research on PEX and did not see the necessity of the extra cost and messing with the crimping. With PVC; to drop a line all one needs is a hack saw and cement, ok a couple other things. But it is simplicity in itself. Never heard about safety issues. you should have an air cutoff between the compressor and shop lines anyway. I say go PVC or Stainless Steel.

[Mike De Luca]

Screw it... I'm not dumping a ton of money into copper.

I've learned a new phrase here in the south, "It will be fine... it will...!"

I'm picking up some black pipe on Monday, screw it together, and be done in about an hour.

I'm 56 years old and not into building a monument to myself... It will outlast me for sure.

My goal is to do this shop on the cheap... and conquer my OCD in the process.

I've learned how to coexist my bike and the shop... any time I'm creating sawdust, I either zip up the bike in a dustproof cover or move it out of the shop until the dust settles.

[Curt Harms]

<snip>
I've learned how to coexist my bike and the shop... any time I'm creating sawdust, I either zip up the bike in a dustproof cover or move it out of the shop until the dust settles.

Or think about good dust collection...........

[Mike De Luca]

A sudden twist in the decision making process...

I ended up with their master kit... ordered it the other day after pricing black pipe. The kit went on sale for $99 over at Northern Tool with no freight fees if you pick it up at the store. The black pipe, with all the fittings, was going to run $50 plus. The RapidAir system comes with enough pipe to run the included second outlet to the upstairs garage... that was the cincher... Mary loves to use the air when cleaning stuff and it will be great to top off the car and truck tires...

Northern Tool/RapidAir Link... (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525)

http://www.discardedcrew.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19007&stc=1&d=1291899561

I understand Harbor Freight has knocked off the RapidAir system master kit and is selling it for $79...