rosewood wine box and color filling

[George McGinnis]

Hello everyone i have searched through the forum for a good method of collor filling text gold on the rosewood wine boxes from JDS and there are a few posts. Also have called JDS. They said they mask with their laser tape and spray paint. I tried this and it looked terrible. Can someone please explain how you do this and get a good result. Thanks

[Garrett Nors]

I'm interested in this information as well. Mine never (ever) comes out like it should.

[Larry Bratton]

How about Rub n Buff? They have a nice gold. I would probably mask that too.

[George McGinnis]

I have looked for it at different places but have never seen it

[Kevin Huffman]

With the masking tape and spray paint, you have to make sure that you are doing deep enough into the wood to allow the paint to completely cover up the engraved section of the wood. So you would have to go into the wood a good 1/16th inch or more. This process is basically like a paint fill. This may take many layers of paint, letting each one dry. To get a smooth finished product.

Another way to do it, if you are doing simple text or vector logo's. Is to engrave the text/logo into the wood. Then take the same vector image, make a vector line and cut the graphic out of some gold 1 layered plastic. You can then inlay the vector cut graphic into the engraved area and seal it with a clear coat/varnish of some kind.
The plastic will have a more smooth/consistent look to it.

[Garrett Nors]

If it's wood we use powdercoat paint from Harbor Freight, it works really well. I forget my settings but its something like 12 power, 100 speed on our 45w epilog. We did a lot of testing with it because it depends on how deep you engrave in the wood, how much powder you put in the grooves, etc.

Edit: Link:
http://www.harborfreight.com/16-oz-powder-coat-paint-matte-black-93306.html

[Martin Boekers]

If you search the forum for fills you gather quite a bit of info on it.

Everyone seems to find a way that works best for them.

Gilders paste is a great fill from what I understand, but haven't tried it yet

Marty

[Larry Bratton]

I have looked for it at different places but have never seen it
George, you can buy it at Michael's Craft Stores, Hobby Lobby, etc. and any number of places online..Amazon for one.

[Bruce Clumpner]

I just finished 21 piano finish awards from JDS for our local high school team and they turned out great. Didn't bring the filled area up to the level of the surface of the clear varnish, but with the contrast between the black and gold rattle-can paint it looks great.

Just get a wide enough tape so you don't have to overlap ( it affects the depth of the engraving) and laser through, then re-burnish the tape to insure it's down so the spray doesn't lift off and paint away.

Here's some samples

[Dee Gallo]

Those look really sharp, George. Any particular brand of paint? I have found the color and density of gold paints to vary a lot. Yours look really good.

cheers, dee

[Mike Null]

I have seen outstanding examples using paint from Laserbits.

I just found a very nice gold at Hobby Lobby but haven't had time to try it on piano finish.It's called Precious Metals.

[Anthony Scira]

Rub & Buff is easiest and requires no masking.

http://sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=504&pictureid=4565

[Shawn Conklin]

I was just considering ordering some of these boxes. I was curious how deep you have tried to engrave? I wanted to see if it was a thin veneer or something better maybe? I was hoping to do some deeper 3d patterns.

Thank You

[Tim Bateson]

[QUOTE=Garrett Nors;1574358]If it's wood we use powdercoat paint from Harbor Freight, it works really well. I forget my settings but its something like 12 power, 100 speed on our 45w epilog. We did a lot of testing with it because it depends on how deep you engrave in the wood, how much powder you put in the grooves, etc.../QUOTE]


This is method I use (10/100) about 75% of the time. The other 25% is spray paint. Tried Rub & Buff, but with very little success - tried several different paints. Messy and time consuming.

[Ross Moshinsky]

JDS masking is not great. It tends to bleed. I'm also a bit heavy handed with the spray paint. I prefer green painters tape, a coat or two of clear coat to seal the wood. Then I apply several coats of a good quick drying enamel spray paint.

I've never tried powder coating, but to me it seems like a poor use of resources. To do one plaque it would have to be in your laser once to engrave(extra long time because it has to go through the masking material) then you have to add the powder coating and run it again in the laser. Not to mention if you misplace the board on the table a bit, you basically have to throw out the board.

[Larry Bratton]

Rub & Buff is easiest and requires no masking.

http://sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=504&pictureid=4565
That looks really nice Anthony. Care to share your technique?

[George McGinnis]

I tried using a spray can of gold from walmart with vinyl sign masking tape. Had it burnished down good I thought but still lifted. Also I pulled the paint out when it dried and I removed the mask. I had to get the job out today so I ended up filling a new box with black shoe polish. Wasn't the effect I was looking for but the customer was happy and I lost money on this job. Oh well you live and learn. Thanks for everyone's help I will try other methods on the rest of the scrap box. Maybe we can find a good method for doing these.
Thanks to everyone here on the creek. I have learned alot from everyone's post. Thanks again

[Anthony Scira]

Pretty simple. On my Epilog 45W I ran 100S 40P. I can not recall the DPI if it was 400 or 600. For some reason I did not put that info on. The Chargers logo was gone in greyscale with the 3 different shades. (90% 70% 40%). This gave the rub and buff different textures to grab onto creating the different shades of gold. Which I think was kinda cool.

As far as application just a dab on the fingertip and rub it on. Wipe off with a good quality cloth that will not scratch the finish. I love the stuff !

[Larry Bratton]

Pretty simple. On my Epilog 45W I ran 100S 40P. I can not recall the DPI if it was 400 or 600. For some reason I did not put that info on. The Chargers logo was gone in greyscale with the 3 different shades. (90% 70% 40%). This gave the rub and buff different textures to grab onto creating the different shades of gold. Which I think was kinda cool.

As far as application just a dab on the fingertip and rub it on. Wipe off with a good quality cloth that will not scratch the finish. I love the stuff !
Thanks for sharing the info. This is what makes this forum so great.

[Shawn Conklin]

Finally had a chance to test an idea on the JDS boxes. I have just the regular box not the piano finish but what I did here was to make a textured background (its a mico-gunstock pattern) then colorfill into the pattern with Laserbits color fill .. then simply wipe the top with windex. it creates an interesting effect.

Some things worth noting ...

I bled the colors a little once or twice because I was moving fast and didn't tape well enough. (I only taped to do different colors, one color would not need tape).

For whatever reason some of the colors just didn't stick well to the etch. Purple was the worst.

Silver gold and light blue look the best in person. Dark colors I am figuring will look better when I can test on the bamboo box I got.


I still need a photo box because the lighting in the shop is horrible for photos :-)

http://www.brainstormkingston.com/images/lazor/rosewoodfill1.JPG


http://www.brainstormkingston.com/images/lazor/rosewoodfill2.JPG

[Martin Boekers]

Actually that is a pretty nice effect! Gives me something to think about!
Thanks for sharing!

As for photo boxes I use these;


www.ezcube.com

You can make a set up out of PVC tubing (search online for plans)
and a couple clamp lights for about $50, but these save so much time
and are easy to use.

[Mark Plotkin]

just did one of the JDS poker chip boxes. Masked, lasered, and then color filled with acyclic paint from Micheals. color is called 24kt gold. sorry i did not get a photo as we shipped it out for a xmas present. it came out really nice with the color fill almost a perfect match with the hinges and box handle.

a special thanks to Frank for the royal flush vector file!

[Mike Null]

Here's an example of the gold paint I mentioned earlier. This is a high gloss mahogany plaque from JDS.

I flooded the area with paint, scraped with a business card, then again, then cleaned up with dna.

[Martin Boekers]

Nice work Mike! Did the client provide the shield or did you create that?

Those Hi-Gloss Mahogany Plaques are one of the best deals going.
Pricing is good, they are easy to work with and look stunning
when finished as we all can see!

[Terry Swift]

I have done quite a few of the boxes from JDS and just use the laser masking for stencils and then Krylon Metallic Gold. If you engrave the right depth, it works great with using multiple "light" coats. That's the key - light. I do about 4-5 light coats and then put on a clear lacquer. The boxes normally laser well; but I've had issues with some boxes in their quality. Most are MDF covered with a piano coating of some type - like contact paper almost. If you're doing fine detailed things like grape clusters, etc. - the detail can chip if you use low DPI / PPI settings. Also using a tape in that matter makes it very time consuming to remove and not damage the very delicate piano coating. I've heard others use the 24k spray from Hobby Lobby as best. It's a smaller can (8 oz I think) than the Krylon or others and costs more; but quality and ease of use is worth it for many.

ULS (my laser) and JDS Tech Support say to use Mat Board or MDF settings; but if you use tape - you have to count that in or use multiple passes at the MDF setting; which for my 35 watt is 38 power / 100 speed / 300 PPI. Text does great at 300 PPI / DPI; but not detailed graphics. JDS has great Technical Support, so call them with questions.

The QC on the piano boxes from JDS and Made in China are a bug-a-boo. I've had 3-4 boxes come out of the box damaged in different ways. Of course JDS is quick to fix it; but if you're on a Christmas Schedule and have only a day or two to deliver - then that is an issue. I've mentioned that to JDS and was sent some more damaged goods. Luckily I had enough to cover my orders.

Some suppliers IMHO have gotten real sloppy with QC and Made in China items. While some of the boxes are nice from JDS, others construction / fit / finish when looked at closely is not great. I'm looking for another supplier of piano boxes to see if their QC is any better or get the same box from the same manufacturer in China. I like JDS as they have a local warehouse here that makes it so convenient and the people there are great; but selling a sloppy product to me is not good.

Just my 2 cents worth. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Terry Swift]

Oops, should have posted this pic.

174863

[Mike Null]

Marty

I made the shield from white engravers plastic and a CLT. I can't get good quality art or it would look a lot better.

BTW--whenever possible I avoid masking as it is too much trouble and in the weeding process it is easy to scratch the wood surface.

Terry--that's very nice work.

[Dee Gallo]

Mike, that's a really attractive piece and the bas-relief really makes it pop. Great combination of your skills and tools! As usual, a very professional look and finish.

cheers, dee

[Ross Moshinsky]

Marty

I made the shield from white engravers plastic and a CLT. I can't get good quality art or it would look a lot better.

BTW--whenever possible I avoid masking as it is too much trouble and in the weeding process it is easy to scratch the wood surface.

Terry--that's very nice work.

Don't weed it. We engrave right through the mask. It takes longer but its better for 2 main reasons. 1) Never have to weed. 2) Don't have to worry about perfect placement back on the table.

In the end, photographs will never tell the whole picture on a process like this. My JDS warehouse has a few samples of these and they look fine from a few feet away, when I examine the piece, typical issues show up. I still like using the green painters tape, a coat or two of clear coat, and then finish with several coats of a good quality enamel spray paint. Every other method I've used has always lead to issues. In the end, most of this is too time consuming and I prefer just to use a plate.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Gang;
I've had good luck with gilders paste (a Rodne suggestion)-easy to work with and cleans up quick-let it set for awhile and then clean up.
Be careful with DNA and lacquer finishes-some lacquers are alcohol based and DNA eats it like its butter.
George
Laserarts

[Mike Null]

Ross,

I've yet to see a mask that didn't need some weeding. What do you do with o's, a's, p's.q's etc?

[Ross Moshinsky]

I put the masking down. Traditionally you'd vector cut and then weed. I simply raster right through the masking. I basically do 2 passes. Normally 100pwr and maybe 40 speed. Between the two passes it removes all the masking and then the second pass I get my necessary depth. Afterwards all I have to do is spray the paint. I'm sure it's a longer engraving process this way but again, I don't have to weed and I also don't have to worry about plaque placement on my table. It's fairly idiot proof.

[Mike Null]

Ross

Back to my question. How do you avoid weeding? All parts of the mask must be removed.

[Dee Gallo]

Ross, I can't understand what you are doing. If your rastering removes ALL masking, how are you confining the paint... it seems the entire surface must be rastered. And what's the use of the masking then?

WAIT - I just got it... you were thinking that everyone vector cuts the mask like a vinyl cutter would, right? Hence the weeding. So the answer to Mike is that yes, you do still have to remove masking material after painting. Which is what we also call weeding, even if it isn't exactly correct. Is that right or am I still missing something?

cheers, dee

[Terry Swift]

I agree with Ross. In most of my work like I posted, the laser tape is rastered thru into the actual piece to provide the depth needed to paint / coat. On larger fonts it's no problem removing the tape inside letters, etc. Now when it gets into finer detail, where there are lots of little pieces of tape to cover the don't want painted areas - then the picking becomes tedious & time consuming.

I did try a different way today with some mixed results. I first oiled the piece and masked off as much as I could with tape, then painted the area. Using the way I was told to do on acrylic - I wiped the paint off the piece using Oops oil based product. Several wipes necessary to get it all off; but then it can also start taking off the coating on the Rosewood or Piano Finish boxes (MDF coated ones). It also created kind of a dull area right in the area where there was no tape; but used some Pledge to help restore it. I'm sure something else works better; but it was what I had on hand at the time.

I haven't used DNA to clean up with, but if it works well, saves time, and doesn't destroy the finish - I'm all for that process.

[Levi Chanowitz]

can you tell us how the powdercoat system works?