Storing chisels/planes etc in sub-zero temps

[bob blakeborough]

Hey everyone,

Having read stories of people who have stored tools improperly and have come back to find rusted surfaces etc, I have noted that I can't remember and discussions on storing tools in a non-attached shop that does not get heated in winter. Being a new neander woodworker and living here in Calgary, our temps in winter are fairly extreme compared to the norm and regularly fluctuate from just above freezing to -40 degrees (celcius) or even colder, starting in Oct/Nov and carrying through until Apr/May. I want to make sure that my tools will not suffer and adverse effects from nasty winter and improper storage.

Is this something to be particularly worrisome or does the fact that they area I live is extremely dry (low humidity) really not create as much of a problem as if we lived somewhere with high humidity, and the temps don't really have that much of an effect?

Any info and wisdom would be greatly appreciated!

[fred mcclure]

i make sure that prior to closing my shop for the winter, i oil all my tools and wrap them in oily rags. i have been doing this for about 10 years with no problems. they are kept in an old metal filing cabinet so i dont think they will catch on fire spontaneously because it is very cold. there is no way they can generate any heat in my shed. i work out of ne ohio.

[David Weaver]

Hey everyone,

Having read stories of people who have stored tools improperly and have come back to find rusted surfaces etc, I have noted that I can't remember and discussions on storing tools in a non-attached shop that does not get heated in winter. Being a new neander woodworker and living here in Calgary, our temps in winter are fairly extreme compared to the norm and regularly fluctuate from just above freezing to -40 degrees (celcius) or even colder, starting in Oct/Nov and carrying through until Apr/May. I want to make sure that my tools will not suffer and adverse effects from nasty winter and improper storage.

Is this something to be particularly worrisome or does the fact that they area I live is extremely dry (low humidity) really not create as much of a problem as if we lived somewhere with high humidity, and the temps don't really have that much of an effect?

Any info and wisdom would be greatly appreciated!

It's not the temperature that creates problems, it's fast swings and no ventilation.

I put a very thin coat of shellac on noncritical parts on some old planes (especially cheeks and castings where the machined surface doesn't mate with anything) and that does a good job of limiting rust without requiring regular attention or affecting the work that you do.

Otherwise, wax the tools and leave them somewhere that there will not be an accumulation of moisture, and check them fairly regularly.

[john brenton]

Where I live doesn't get that cold but I've already brought my favorite tools inside.

[Jim Koepke]

Do the tools get used during the cold months?

The answer to this may require different strategies.

There are a few things that may help.

A recent thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=152505

discussed the use of a light bulb for heating a tool cabinet to prevent condensation on tools.

Also, try a search on > golden rod heater < this will lead to a lot of information on protecting items from the detriments of cold environments.

Just a final thought. Your mention of -40 degrees (celsius) caused me to smile. As I recall, -40º is where celsius and fahrenheit agree.

jtk

[Frank Drew]

Bob,

I've had no issues with tools that were isolated from any humidity inside cabinets or drawers, unlike some of my tools out in the open in the shop. From what I've learned here since, I might have avoided the rust issues I did have if I'd kept the ceiling fan on when I was out of the shop for an extended period.

[Bill Houghton]

i make sure that prior to closing my shop for the winter, i oil all my tools and wrap them in oily rags. i have been doing this for about 10 years with no problems. they are kept in an old metal filing cabinet so i dont think they will catch on fire spontaneously because it is very cold. there is no way they can generate any heat in my shed. i work out of ne ohio.

There's a lot of misunderstanding out there about oils "catching on fire spontaneously." There are drying and non-drying oils. The oils used in finishes - linseed and tung are the two most commonly used; some people also use walnut - are drying oils. They don't actually "dry." What they do, upon exposure to air, is undergo a fairly rapid oxidation (generally 24 hours or so) - a chemical reaction in which they combine with oxygen from the air and form a new compound that is hard and no longer liquid. In the process, the chemical reaction creates heat. "Rapid oxidation" is another way to describe fire, so, if the heat can't dissipate, at some point the built up heat will reach the ignition point, and your oily rags will catch on fire (probably a little more complex - the rags themselves will be a fuel source in this scenario, aside from the finish).

This is why one of the recommended practices when finishing with oils is to spread out the oily rags used with the finish where they can "air-dry." Because the surface area of a spread-out rag is very large relative to its volume, the heat can dissipate readily - thus although, over the entire rag, the heat produced by the reaction is the same as if it's crumpled up, the heat per square or cubic inch is not much. On the other hand, if you make a pile of rags soaked with finishing oil, you'll have a small surface area around a volume within which those reactions are occurring - heat not dissipating fast enough due to the smaller surface area - fire starting.

Petroleum-based oils (motor oil and so on) and some vegetable oils are "NON-drying" - they're stable compounds that aren't eagerly seeking oxygen with which to combine. Many of them are flammable - if a heat source is applied in the presence of oxygen, a rag soaked in motor oil will burn - but it won't be a fire created by the oil itself, but by accident or dumbness.

If you're oiling your tools with petroleum-based oil or a non-drying vegetable oil, and not storing them near a heater or other heat source, you shouldn't need to worry about "spontaneous" - chemically-induced - fire. And coating them with a drying oil would seem like a recipe for a lot of maintenance work come spring, getting the film coating off the tool.

[bob blakeborough]

Thanks guys... My concern was more centered around the fluctuation of temperature and the creation of condensation. I have rubbed all the metal surfaces down with a 3-1 oiled rag and waxed the bottoms of my planes, but I do not yet have a storage cabinet. I have put all the planes and chisels in their original cardboard boxes hoping this might help control moisture, but am not sure if this is enough. I have also put one of those oil radiator style heaters on low in the middle of the floor near my tool area hoping that it may help control the temps slightly better than not.

Maybe it might be smart for me to bring in the tools and keep them in the basement and just take the ones I use at the moment back to the shop on the days it is warm enough to spend time in there...

[Dan Andrews]

Living in northern NY, our temps are simmilar, though a little warmer than yours Bob. The only problem I have had with condensation is in the spring. When air temps rise and the humidity rises the moisture in the air condeses on the surfaces of cold objects. I have had tools actually drip water when there is a rapid and extream temperature rise.

I restore a lot of old tools and find that the worst thing you can do is to store them with the metal parts in contact with paper, cardboard or wood. A finish on wooden storage devises might reduce the problem (I wouldn't know for sure since I don't put a finish on my storage racks etc.) I have gotten tools that only had rust in an area that still had cardboard or paper stuck right to the rust. The rest of the tool survived quite well. A friend loaned me her lathe and lathe tools. She had stored them in a wooden rack with the cutting edges resting on the wooden bottom. Every edge was badly rusted. I did a lot of grinding to restore them.

I bring my planes in the house, and keep the surfaces of tools left in the shop well oiled or waxed. As soon as it gets consistantly warm out in the spring, I open doors and windows in the shop to get the interior warmed up as quickly as possible. I open the drawers of my mechanic's tool chests for ventilation at that time.

Preventing rust is a never ending battle, but well worth the fight if you want keen edges and non rusty tools.

[Jim Koepke]

<...>


I have seen this also. Paper and other fiber products tend to collect moisture.




<...>

Preventing rust is a never ending battle, but well worth the fight if you want keen edges and non rusty tools.

Rust never sleeps.

jtk

[harry strasil]

My Demonstrating kit (a portable complete mid 1800's woodworking shop) lives in a 6 by 10 enclosed and vented Cargo Trailer year round. I only have 2 iron planes, a Stanley 140 and a type 2 45, but plenty of chisels and other metal cutting edges on my Woodies and routers and saws and they are not treated in any way other than kept in almost air tight wooden tool chests. And they suffer no effects of rust even tho this area, SE Nebraska has temp fluctuations from 100+ to -20 with many quick changes during the year as well as several rainy seasons. There are several times during the year that the concrete floor in my blacksmith shop will actually have water condensation in puddles.