36" or 52" Rails - Decision factors

[Bill McDermott]

Friends,

Buying my first tablesaw. It will be a top tier 3 hp cabinet saw.

Question is --> Should I go big on the tablesaw, or save the floorspace?

REASONS FOR 36" Rails:
- I'm strictly hobby here and don't do much with large panels.
- I really can't imagine many times that I would need the cutting capacity.
- My basement shop is small enough that the 16" difference is significant in everyday "aisle space".
- I can and have brought 4x8 sheet goods into the shop, but generally break them down before bringing in doors.
- I have adequate counter top, benchtop and outfeed/work table surface.

REASONS FOR 54" Rails:
- Bigger is Better mentality
- Capacity for larger panels and 48" stock.
- More room for the built in router table and under-table storage.

I'm leaning toward 36" rails to keep the floorspace. I'm asking for specific reasons or experiences why you would opt for the 54" rails so I don't regret going small.

Thanks, Bill

[Scot Ferraro]

Hi Bill,

Do you work a lot with sheet goods and large panels? If so and if you do not have another way of breaking down sheets (i.e a track saw or circular saw with guide), then I would opt for the larger rails. If you have another means of handling these types of workpieces, then I think that the smaller rails would work fine. 95% of what I cut is less than 36 inches. I have a track saw now and have been debating whether I should cut down my rails or get rid of my TS altogether. It is a real space hog for sure. If you have the room, then the longer rails would not limit you.

Scot

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Bill - it looks like you hit all of the relevant pros & cons that I can think of. I am also in a small shop, but I opted for the longer rails on a new TS because I had longer rails/table on my older saw and got used to it. I can just about position it so I still have good mobility around my shop; I like the extra surface in the middle of my shop for assembly, or just to put stuff on; and I use the space underneath for storage.

Only you can decide on what works for you; the longer rails just happen to work for me. I think if I downsized to shorter rails, I would rapidly grow accustomed to it and never look back.

[Erik Christensen]

I got long rails for all the reasons you stated but since getting a festool tack saw I never use it

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Bill, I have a small basement shop. I do not use much sheet stock in items that I build, but I would miss my 53" rails for many times that I need to trim one item or other thats over 24 inches wide. Tom

[Caleb Larru]

I couldn't live without my 52" rails. I have a lot of cuts that are over 36" when making cabinets and handling sheet goods.

[Mark Ashmeade]

I went from 36" capacity to 30", and noticed it immediately. I needed the 36 the day after I got the 30" saw set up. Not many people say "I wish I'd got a smaller saw".

[Philip Rodriquez]

I've had both. My first TS had 32" rails and my current TS has 52" rails. As with almost everything in wood working... there are 100's of ways to skin a cat. Therefore, if you need the space, I do not see any reason to opt for the 52" rails unless you would regularly use them.

JMHO.

[Darius Ferlas]

I have a 36" rails and so far I haven't had a need for more in the last 30 months that I had been tinkering with woodworking. Longer rails would add more trouble than benefit in my one car garage shop and I'd probably need a substantial out feed table to really benefit form the extra capacity to handle much larger sheets.

If I had to trim a wider sheet I'd use a circular saw or a router against a long piece of something.

[Chip Lindley]

Go 50"! You will not regret it nearly as often as you will regret NOT going bigger! That big extension table is a natural for mounting a router lift! (hint) And, there is lots of room beneath the extension that needs to be made into storage drawers! ('nother hint)

[Derek Gilmer]

I've got the 36 now I think, and drool over the long ones all the time. If you ever plan to cut large sheets of plywood go big. They really don't take up that much more space.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I'm space limited, I have a 52" saw. Router plate in the extension wing. Yes, the length is worth the space, even if you are space limited. I use the saw as my workbench.
If you plan to make cabinets, you'll need 39" capacity, as mentioned.
Just my $0.02.

[Derek Gilmer]

Here is another annecdote for the bigger rails. I was cutting some plywood to make a dresser the other day and needed about 4" more cutting width. I realized I was crazy when I reached for clamps to try and clamp my fence to the router table that sits beside the tablesaw. :D

You don't ever want to be that guy.

[Heather Thompson]

Bill,

A few years back I scored a great deal from a fellow Creeker on a PM66, it replaced a Delta contractor saw that was outfitted with an Incra TSIII with 92" rails. The PM66 did not come with a fence or right/left hand wings, I bought a 1" thick X 30" deep X 72" wide slab of phenolic and made a 24" X 30" left wing and 44" X 30" right wing that also has a router lift incorporated, the total sawtop is 89.5" X 30". I like all of the saw space, it works great while machining parts on the tablesaw, also a great staging area for the jointer and planer, also makes a great place for glue ups. My thought is that if you buy the longer rails and you really kick yourself you can always cut them down or sell them and get the shorter rails, if you buy the shorter you can not make them grow. :D Bigger is Better.
Also my shop is cleverly concealed as a two car garage, most people think we have five cars since three live on the driveway all of the time.

Heather

[Bill Huber]

I have a small shop, 12x16 so space is my biggest problem.

I went with shorter rails because I could not get anything longer in my shop, but I have found they are just fine.

I have a good skill saw with a good blade, a good All In One Clamp and a ZCI on it, I cut all the plywood I need in the garage and it comes out just fine.

With a good straight edge I guess you could almost call it a track saw. There are times that I have a long board that I need to cut but I will use my miter saw or the skill saw and cut it a little long and finish it on the table saw.

[David Weaver]

I had a 30" saw, that then became 52" and then made its way out my door.

I'm space challenged, I figured I would probably need the extra rip width at some point, and I had a mobile base under the saw (not the fence).

The larger fence made me despise moving my saw, and ultimately I sold it.

If it's just going to be sitting stationary somewhere, then it's not such a big deal, but I've seen a LOT more people putting stuff on the right side of their fence and using the extra 2 feet as defacto storage than actually using that extra size to cut large pieces.

Full width sheets of plywood are a pain on a TS by yourself, anyway, especially if you don't have a lot of clearance around all sides of the saw.

good riddance big saw.

[Rusty Eads]

Now if one could just come up with a flip down rail that was accurate and rigid when flipped up, it would alleviate the cons of having longer rails :rolleyes:

[Cary Falk]

Well here is my story.
I have a 3 car garage. My wife's cars have to stay in at night so I store my tool on my one car side and move all the cars out when I want to play.

I started out with a contractor saw with 32(?) rail. It was always too short.

I moved up to a RT cabinet saw. I got a 52" rail and split it so I had 24" on the left for bevel cuts and 42" on the right. I never used the 24" on the left and more than once wanted to cut 48" on the left. I ended up moving the rail back to 52" on the right. I loved the table space on the left. Most of the time I ended up cluttering up the table. When I needed to make a cut ti took me longer to get it cleaned off. The space under the table was not all that big because the motor was on that space. I ended upnever getting around to building a cabinet.

I then sold that saw and got a LT cabinet saw with a 26" fence. I shifted the fence to the right to get about 33" and put a JessEm Mast-R-Slide on the left. I got around to building a cabinet under the right. I am extremely happy with this combination.

Soooo for me.
Pros:
large table to the right to pile crap.
able to cut panels (tops, sides,and bottoms for stuff like 4' hope chests)
Bragging rights(my fence is bigger than yours). JK
Storage under the table had I chose to use it.


Cons:
The the whole thing was a beast and getting out of control. It was actually getting hard to move around in my increasingly shrinking space.
All the crap stored on the table took longer to clean off.:rolleyes:
Took up space where my new shaper now sits.:cool:

Bottom line. If I didn't have the JessEm I would have the 52" fence.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Lots of responses here, with what appears to be an even split.

You say you don't work with sheet goods all that much, and when you do you're fine with just breaking them down with a handheld saw. You also say you're space challenged... You didn't mention whether you plan to move your saw around or whether it will be stationary, but if you plan to move it around, that's clearly another consideration.

All said, I think you have your answer! It comes down to how you work and how big your workspace is.

Now, here's my perspective... I have 52" rip capacity. I definitely have used it a few times. I recently installed an Excalibur sliding table and now my table saw is humongous... like almost 10' from end to end. Now, I'm thinking I might cut the rails down.

My thought is this: the only situations I can think of where I might use the extra capacity is when I'm ripping only a small amount off a 48" wide panel (i.e., ripping it down to 43"), or when I'm cross-cutting a panel.

I almost never rip a panel like this. I actually can't think of a time when I did.

I do crosscut panels this way. Sometimes I want a board that is 48" long (the original width of the panel) by let's say 48" wide. But now I can use the sliding table to do that crosscut... and it will actually be square. Using the rip fence for this crosscut can result in an out-of-square panel if the original factory edges on the sheet aren't square (happens all the time to me).

I guess what I'm getting at is that my ideal situation is a slider with 36" rip capacity. Use the slider for big cross cuts, use the rip fence for wider rips (for which you will almost never need more than 36", and when you do you can just use your circular saw).

So. You say you want to buy a top tier table saw. Sawstop ICS, Powermatic, General International, Delta Unisaw... those all come to mind. Have you considered a Hammer sliding table saw? The price is roughly in the ballpark with the top tier saws, and they don't take up any more floor space than a North American saw with a 36" rip fence.

I have a Sawstop PCS that I'm very happy with, but I'm starting to come around to the idea of the Euro table saw configuration. I won't be getting rid of the Sawstop anytime soon, but part of me does wish that I had considered a Euro slider.

[Norman Hitt]

This question is truly a personal use/preference decision, and "my" reasoning will certainly "NOT" be helpful to you, but..........

Besides the Pros already mentioned, my MAIN reason for a 52" fence is because for over half of my woodworking life, I had to use work-arounds to accomplish all types of shopwork and especially to make wider cuts in my own shop spaces because of saws with NO wings, wings only but no extensions, lack of shop space, etc., so I finally decided, "ENOUGH"!!!!!!!:mad:

I purchased a cabinet saw (PM66) w/52" Biese fence, crammed it into the (then garage) shop and SWORE to myself that if I didn't make even ONE cut a year that needed the wide fence setup, I would NEVER be without that capability again, as long as I'm able to wobble into the shop and safely push a piece of wood thru a saw, no matter how much of the shop space it takes up. There are a ton of times when a work-around for a particular operation is necessary, and most of them, I don't mind, and some are even FUN, :D but not enough fence capacity for "me", became a very SORE subject.

(After 20 years with this setup, my opinion on this has not changed one iota.)

Soooo......, don't make your decision on a whim, OR on what someone else's opinion is, (including mine), :rolleyes: :D but truly what makes you happy, and then do it and stick with it.

good luck

[Mike De Luca]

I went with the longer rails and mounted the router in the extension. That and a 4' x 5' outfeed makes the table saw my main work counter, repair station, father/daughter lets have a talk area (we call them "saw table talks"), and motorcycle parts staging area.

It sure is nice when you want to lay down a panel or cross cut a longer length.

I special ordered my Beismeyer with 66" rails for a reason I can no longer remember.

My saw/woodworking area was 1/2 of our old largish two car garage.

I'm setting up a basement shop in our new house. My truck can finally be inside... course it now looks like crap... but I've cut a lot of wood on that saw and enjoyed every minute of it...!

[Joseph Tarantino]

your first TS and it's a 3hp cabinet saw? nothing like jumping in with both feet!

go "big"....you can always cut smaller if needed, but with a smaller setup, you can't cut "big". the 36" rails on my lowly ridgid 2412 are good, but i often wish i had more capacity. i scored a delta t2 with 32" rails for a song from a woodnetter and won't use it until i find a way to get longer front and rear mounting angle irons and longer rail tube.

if you're still not sure about what to get, just get a rail stretcher and use it whenever you need grater capacity.

[Chris Brault]

I am space "challenged", but could go with 52" rails. I won't even consider it. 36" is it for me, I break big sheet goods down with a circular saw. But, I don't work with plywood that often. A friend of mine has a 1600 square foot shop (mine is 600), and yes he has 52" rails, builds cabinets with sheet goods all the time, and they are nice in that situation. If I had 1600 square feet , I would go 52", even though I don't use sheet goods as much as him.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I say get the bigger rails, and if you haven't used that capacity after a year, then cut them down. Then you can shorten them to whatever length you really need. I think 36" is too short because I have times where I want to rip a 3 foot wide piece of ply, but I rarely go to 4 feet, so I've been thinking of shortening my rails to 42".

[Tom Cornish]

I have the 52" rails. My space is about 21' X 30', so not a huge shop. I pushed the saw up against the wall. This precludes me from using the extra space for a router table, but the saw really doesn't take up as much space as I originally thought it would when I was planning to have it in the middle of the room.

This also worked out well for dust collection - the duct runs along the wall rather than dropping from the ceiling in the middle of the room.

Count me on the "get the big ones" side.

[Jim O'Dell]

My first saw was (is? I still have it) the Ridgid 3612. I quickly moved the rails to the right. When Lowe's was blowing out the Biese 36" fence and rails, I got one and immediately moved it all the way to the right. I think I get about 49" with that set up. When I got the new Grizzly G0691 last January, I started out with the 50" fence in the standard set up. This summer, I moved the rails to the right. I have about 69" capacity now and I love it! My shop is 20 X 24, so 480 sq ft. My saw is set with the width on the 20' wall. I have a good 28" around the saw with a BS and RT on one wall to the right of the saw, and a 24" deep counter on the left side of the saw. Works fine. Jim.

[Steve Griffin]

This is easy.

Since you are a hobbiest and have limited floorspace, don't think twice about the smaller 36" rail. It's plenty. You have far more important things to do with your space and money.

-Steve

[Karl Brogger]

This is easy.

Since you are a hobbiest and have limited floorspace, don't think twice about the smaller 36" rail. It's plenty. You have far more important things to do with your space and money.

-Steve

I've got the exact opposite notion. It doesn't take up that much more space, and the versatility of it is priceless.

I made the mistake of putting 30" rails on my dado saw. What a flippin' pain that turned out to be, and I spent another $200+ putting a set of 52" rails and a new side table on it.

Free set of 30" Biesmeyer rails for anyone who wants to pick them up.:D I move em' one more time they're going in the dumpster.

[Steve Griffin]

I've got the exact opposite notion. It doesn't take up that much more space, and the versatility of it is priceless.

I made the mistake of putting 30" rails on my dado saw. What a flippin' pain that turned out to be, and I spent another $200+ putting a set of 52" rails and a new side table on it.

Free set of 30" Biesmeyer rails for anyone who wants to pick them up.:D I move em' one more time they're going in the dumpster.

Keep in mind we're not giving advice to "ourselves"

I couldn't imagine not having my big rip capacity, and any pro would be fool to save money this way.

But a hobby guy in a small shop can do just fine with 36". The 3 times of year you need more, you just rip the waste side off.

-Steve

[Norman Hitt]

Friends,

Buying my first tablesaw. It will be a top tier 3 hp cabinet saw.

Question is --> Should I go big on the tablesaw, or save the floorspace?

REASONS FOR 36" Rails:
- I'm strictly hobby here and don't do much with large panels.
- I really can't imagine many times that I would need the cutting capacity.
- My basement shop is small enough that the 16" difference is significant in everyday "aisle space".
- I can and have brought 4x8 sheet goods into the shop, but generally break them down before bringing in doors.
- I have adequate counter top, benchtop and outfeed/work table surface.

REASONS FOR 54" Rails:
- Bigger is Better mentality
- Capacity for larger panels and 48" stock.
- More room for the built in router table and under-table storage.

I'm leaning toward 36" rails to keep the floorspace. I'm asking for specific reasons or experiences why you would opt for the 54" rails so I don't regret going small.

Thanks, Bill

What size IS your shop???????

[Russell Sansom]

I have a PM66 with 52" rails and since I have to unpack it for each use, I have wished for shorter rails dozens of times. The router and lifter are heavy enough out on the lever that the whole saw can actually tip rightward.
Also, I lucked into a low-priced Festool Track saw. I doubt if I'll ever use the PM66 again for sheet goods. So, I'm trying to decide if I should have a machine shop cut the rails shorter or simply make a trade with somebody.

Any one in the Bay Area interested in swapping their 36" rails for my 52" ??

[Philip Rodriquez]

If I was space challenged, I would opt for the shorter rails and save up for the Festool MFT. Now that I think about it, I may trade in my 12" SCMS, extention tables, and stop system... and get an MFT:rolleyes:... but that is for another post...

[keith micinski]

If 18 inches is really going to affect the size of your shop then you have a real problem and it's not the size of the fence. Get the longer rails they are better for working period. The only cons that have been listed are space, and I didn't use them much. Those aren't really cons, there just things that happen. What is a real con is I want to cut this piece 34" so now I'll just slide my fence over and cut it, oh wait my fence isn't long enough and now I have to dig through my stuff get my tape out, find my pencil, mark the piece, find the straight edge and the clamps, clear enough space off in my small shop to work on this piece since allegedly that was the point of getting the smaller rails in the first place, make the cut without good dust collection and using a circular saw that probably doesn't have a very good blade on it,( I'm sure you don't have a Festool track saw since you are just getting started and your worried about space). Tear all of this down and realize, crap I needed 4 of those not one. Or just as bad set up all of your portable roller stands and move the fence over and try and make the cut leaving the waste inside the fence and blade and if you have to make multiple pieces hope for the best. By the way with the larger rails you can make a nice side feed table and use it as an assembly table and you could also build a really nice cabinet underneath and use that for storage gaining more space. If you really wanted to get creative build a router table in to the right side and now you have gained all of that space. In case you haven't noticed yet I am one of the people saying get the bigger rails. I had to work for one project with the small rails while I was in between saws and I hadn't been that frustrated since I gave up my old Craftsman contractors saw with it's stock fence that took ten minutes to get aligned with the blade everytime I wanted to make a cut. Lastly if the rails are to long and you find you would rather have that whopping 18 inches for something else then you can just cut them off.

[David Weaver]

Or, if you work in a one car garage (or in one stall with a post smack in the middle), you can get the larger fence and then have trouble going around the fence on the saw.

I doubt too many people here who have increased the fence rail size and then have found distaste for it have thought plenty about it.

I ran into it being a pain to go around the saw or move the saw far more often than I cut anything 34".

[glenn bradley]

Since you say you do not do much with large panels I would go short. In a workshop I don't have the luxury of having something just in case I use it once a year ;-) My Biesemeyer came with a 30" right of the blade capacity which was often too short. I shifted the rails to the right and now have a 40" capacity which has been fine for all but a very few cuts. I certainly don't mind the occasional work-around in exchange for the free space the rest of the time.

[Bill McDermott]

Seems like this will go on, and on, and on...

Some great points made, and I thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

Appears that the ball is in my court to make my own decision.

Happily, I do not need to organize a filibuster-proof majority on this and either way I go it's still my first table saw! I win.

Thanks again.

Bill

[Gene Waara]

I studied this issue to death before buying my G690 this summer. Read this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=142465 I have a basement shop of about 320 sf. The 50" rails would have really pinched my available space. I bought the 690, moved the rails to the right to gain about 7" of rip width, added a router table on that wing and have not yet needed more width. I break down large sheet in my garage avoiding the need for more width and avoiding humping full size sheets down the stairs. In the end, as always, it really depends on what works for you.