Perceptions on pricing

[Scott Hackler]

Here is a somewhat funny story:

My wife's family was over at my house for my daughters Birthday party. Of course I have turnings sitting everywhere. Most of the really fragile stuff is either in the china hutch or on top of it, while the little kids where visiting. After some of the stuff was getting noticed, I was asked to get down some things so the relatives could look at it. The "Elder Flower" was popular and the topic of a lot of questions. Of course there were the usual non-woodturner type questions like, "How did you do that?" and "How long did that take to make?". So all the information was given out. 15+ hours, 9 different turnings, boiling and bending the different stuff, blah blah blah.

Fast forward to a week or so later. My SIL emails my wife and ask, "How much would Scott charge to make me one of those flower things? I have _________ name (her SIL) for the Christmas gift exchange and it would look so nice in her kitchen." Now my SIL is a person who 1) doesn't have a lot of money and 2) isn't likely to spend more than $50 on her sister in law's present. I didnt know what to say. She obviously thought that this work was well within her price range.

So in a very descriptive reply to my wife, to be forwarded to her sister, I meantioned AGAIN the hours, skill and processes involved and said, " I really don't want to sell it, but because of the above menationed reasons... The first $1500 can take it home!"

This was replied to by the SIL with, "Oh, its worth that for sure." lol

It is a little reminicent of showing a non art appreciator a HF or cup on a pedestal and getting the comment, "What do you use it for?" I always reply, "Its used as a bobble on a shelf or in a display case, so the visitors to your home they will know your appreciate good art."

[John Beaver]

I think people generally appreciate and respect the effort and time we put into these things.

I have never had anyone question the prices I put my pieces, just their ability to pay. Curiously, no one has ever tried to talk me down in price.

[John Keeton]

Scott, so funny...and, so true! There seem to be several different categories of folks, including -

Woodturners, all of which can certainly appreciate the work involved, but none of which will pay for YOUR turnings - they have their own!

SIL type folks that don't really have a clue!

Folks that truly do appreciate the art, and the value, but have just satisfied their need by looking at it - and, have no need to own it!

True art lovers that have the appreciation, and want to look at it tomorrow, and the day after, etc. - and, have the money. Few, and far between in these times, I am afraid!

And, I am sure there are many other "stereotypical groups" as well.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Scott - good story and one we can all relate too! I am amazed at how many times friends and/or relatives will ask 'How much?' and tell me how much they really want a particular piece.... Course, they have to think about it and that's the last you ever hear of it!

[Nathan Hawkes]

Scott, I can't agree with you and everyone else more!! It never ceases to amaze me how some people think that they can get something for next to nothing. Quite often, I get people asking for something for $$___ and are surprised how small or insignificant it is. The same people might mention that I only turn salvaged (i.e. free to me) wood, and why is it so expensive?! I tell them, well, there's the gas, insurance, time, maintenance on the vehicle to get me to the wood and back home (old Ford truck--15mpg), the $1000's in chainsaws, chains, grinder, protective equipment, the $3K for lathe, $__ in turning tools, electricity, firewood (cutting, splitting, stacking, & Advil for afterwards..) the learning curve time, medical bills for dumb !#$t mistakes made in aforementioned learning curve time............

[Jim Burr]

That is so true!! I, and am sure guys/gals do to, hear all the time "I wouldn't pay that much for something like that:mad:" and 5 minutes later "Oh! I'd pay more for something like that:p". As soon as I start taking money all the time for every piece, it's a job and I have 3 already :rolleyes:.

[Scott Hackler]

Brings to mind another time where I showed a friend one of my more recent Christmas ornaments. He said, "wow that's pretty nice. I bet you could probably sell these easily for $10!" Lol for $10 I wouldn't even get it off the display for someone to hold. He asked what I would sell them for and I said a plain one (1 - 1.5 hours work) would be marked $35-40 and the super deluxe ones (2 - 2.5 hours work), I would ask around $60-70. People will either pay for the skill, labor, materials and art or I'll hang them on my tree!

He said that seemed aweful high to him and I invited him to use my lathe and tools and exotic (expensive) wood and try to replicate those ornaments! Then the light bulb went off.

That being said, I still give away plenty of pretty decent turnings. Just not the fancy stuff....except to my wife!

[Alan Trout]

I got a call from the gallery the other day about the piece that I won our SMC hollow form contest with. I had it priced at $800 they ask if there was any room on the price. I talked with the guy that wanted to buy it, I told him I would take $750 for it. He said he would think about it. If he never buys it that is OK I have to set my prices to what I think its worth and if they buy it great, if not I am still happy. I did mention to him that there was about 35 hours in the piece and he seemed to understand. I recently entered the hollow form in another jurorod art competition which it won. (Stealth Gloat:D) so I have had good profit between the winning of the SMC prize and the cash prize from the other competition, so a little discount doesn't hurt.

Alan

[Scott Hackler]

Alan, pricing that contest winning HF at $750 seems like a darn good price for what they would get. Frankly I would have thought a bit more. I have joked with my wife that my winning ornament is my $500+ ornament because of the value of the prizes I won with it! But I wouldn't sell this one, just for the momento reason.

[Jim Burr]

Exactly!!! Until folks understand what goes into it...they don't understand why it cost more than $4.99. I had a guy offer to make a website for me...at $100 an hour:eek::eek:. I told him I run life support on trauma patients and didn't make half that, and wondered which had more value? He offered to do it for a lot less :D.

[Ronald Fox]

I gave my mom a nice segmented piece for a gift and a neighbor really liked it. I made a second piece very similar and walked over to offer to sell it to them. The first question they asked was would it hold water. I told them I suppose it would hold water, but when I mentioned the price they didn’t want to buy it, lol.

Ron

[David E Keller]

I'm afraid that I have trouble not lowering prices. If I get back the cost of the wood and a few bucks for my trouble, I'm usually a pretty happy camper. I fully support(and envy) those who can set the bar high and move a few pieces. I enjoy the smile people give you when they feel like they got a deal on something they really enjoy.

This year at a Christmas sale where I mostly sell pens and stoppers, I saw a woman that bought several buckeye burl pens from me last year as gifts. She kept coming back over and fondling a little maple burl HF that I brought to this year's show. She never asked the price, and I could tell that she likely wouldn't/couldn't indulge herself... As she walked away, I secretly gave the piece to one of her kids and told them to give it to her for Christmas this year. I smile everytime I think about her potential reaction this Christmas.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Scott I have the same problem with a family of 6 brothers and sisters. One sister understands and she won't take anything unless it is a gift. In fact she buys a lot of stuff and pays full price. She is in Arts and Crafts. She knows what goes into making these things. I don't give any of them my best stuff. If I have a bunch of lidded boxes, mini birdhouses, ornaments, etc I will sell them for $10 to family to get my wood money back or with my one sister who is out of work I just give it to her. When they come and they want something and it is my better stuff it has a price. I may lower it some since it is family but not much. Stick to your guns Scott because if you make a concession once you are done because they expect it every time or they get PO'd.

[Jim Underwood]

I did a craft show this fall..

And I was amazed at the number of folks who came by, their kids playing with my spin tops the whole time they were there, and had to drag them off... But wouldn't shell out a measly $5 for the top.

Now, it's a great top, spins well, and looks wonderful.

I had several people pick one up, look at the price and mouth "Five Dollars!":eek: to their friend and walk away....

I only sold a handful of these things, which was quite a surprise to me. This is the festival that's known for sales in the $5-$20 range, and has 50K visitors running through it.


What puzzled me the most was the sales of a penturner at the same show. He's selling out of his high dollar pens (start point $35, to over $100) to the same crowd that won't shell out $5 for the kid who obviously loves the top! :confused:

People are funny.

[Dan Hintz]

Scott, even when you tell them the number of hours into a piece,it still doesn't sink in... and I believe that's because they simply cannot comprehend what you do during those hours unless they see it from beginning to end. In their mind, you throw a piece of wood on a spinny machine, rub tools on it for 15 minutes, and out pops a masterpiece. Do you really want those people owning it anyway? They're the ones who put a gallon Ziplok bag in a spunky, NE HF so they can shove some carnations in it at the dinner table.



Jim, maybe you should put a sign next to the tops titled "$5 for a top?!" and give a very brief overview of the steps (with times) required to turn such a simple item. For those who read it, it may make a convert of a few... of course, those folks may end up never giving it to their kids, instead displaying it on their shelves... and that's okay. :)

[David DeCristoforo]

Ha. No sympathy from here. After spending the better part of my life doing "custom" woodwork, I could not possibly count the number of times I have heard something like this:

"We were over at (fill in the name of the cheapest furniture store you can think of) and they have this dresser that we really like. We would have bought it but it's too small for the space we have for it. Besides it's not real wood and they want way too much for it. We wanted to see if you could make one just like it but bigger and out of real wood and we were hoping that it would not be as expensive as the one over at (fill in the name of the cheapest furniture store you can think of)"

Enough times of hearing this and you begin to be grateful to still have hair on your head, not from aging but from the almost irresistible urge to rip it out.

[Sean Hughto]

Maybe instead of dollars, we should talk to folks about trades. Most everyone can make or do something. It might help them relate if you put it in their terms: "Sure, Sally, I'd trade you my turning for one of your quilts." "Jim, if you want to use your photography skills and equipment to take the pictures at my daughters upcoming wedding ..." etc. etc.

As I've said before, my successful turnings (i.e., the ones I'm persoanlly satisfied with are priceless; therefore, I can only give them away. Funny thing is, I'm not comfortable giving away the ones I see as lacking, and as I get more picky those are piling up. Maybe I should sell 'em. I wouldn't care much what I got for them anyway. Food for thought.

[Sean Hughto]

Yeah, that top thing is freaking nuts. I mean people spend that much on a coffee at Starbucks or for a pack of cigarettes. Sad.

[Dan Hintz]

"Sure, Sally, I'd trade you my turning for one of your quilts."
This could be dangerous as some of those people will spend 80 hours making something and charge $60 for it... to them, it's a hobby, so they only care about making enough to purchase material for the next one.

[Josh Bowman]

...............................
.................. She never asked the price, and I could tell that she likely wouldn't/couldn't indulge herself... As she walked away, I secretly gave the piece to one of her kids and told them to give it to her for Christmas this year. I smile everytime I think about her potential reaction this Christmas.
David,
I have to say you brought a happy smile to my face with that story.
Her expression on Christmas day will be price less.

[Sean Hughto]

Assuming you actually want the quilt and aren't hoping to sell it for the dough, it really shouldn't matter what Sally might sell her work for, right? No matter how she would monetize her own work's value, at least she realizes (1) that you equate the skill and effort and value of your work and hers, and (2) you are presumably getting something you think is a good trade in terms of the value to you in enhancing your life.

[Sean Hughto]

Now that's what I'm talkin about when I say "priceless." As the Aussies say: good on ya, mate.

[Curt Fuller]

Well ya, you put a lot of hours into it and stuff, but it wasn't like you were working or anything. It's just your hobby. ;)
Kind of reminds me of the Dire Straits song "Money for Nothing".

I don't turn a lot of things that I would consider to be high end works of art so I'm a sucker for the relatives that want a deal. In fact, I probably give away well over half of the things I make. But no one has ever called me a shrewd businessman.

[Jim Silva]

Heheh... I run into this all the time with our business.

My family makes Nantucket baskets. People will look at a piece we've done and fall in love with it. Then they ask the price. When they're revived and standing upright again they inevitably ask. "Why so much?!?"

We then have to explain that:


very few people know how to make these and fewer at the level we do. It's a unique American folk art.
something like a purse takes us roughly 40 hours of work to complete
every single piece we produce is done by hand and as such each is completely unique
Nantucket baskets are highly collectible and never fail to appreciate over time

I then typically ask them how much they make in a 40 hour week. Then would they consider doing the work for say, half the wage. How about their experience, knowledge and other intangibles they bring to their job.

Most will still think the price outrageous but they'll have a better perspective on the effort that goes into these pieces. I also tell them to take a look at competitors doing the quality of work we produce and compare prices. It's what the market will bear and what value the maker puts on their time, experience and materials.

Turning-wise, I don't even remotely consider myself in the same league with some of the turners just viewing this forum but I do know the level of quality work I do produce and value it accordingly.

I give things away frequently but I can do that with friends and family if I choose. When I'm commissioned to produce a particular piece I charge what I feel it's worth.

Jim

[Jim Underwood]

Jim, maybe you should put a sign next to the tops titled "$5 for a top?!" and give a very brief overview of the steps (with times) required to turn such a simple item. For those who read it, it may make a convert of a few... of course, those folks may end up never giving it to their kids, instead displaying it on their shelves... and that's okay. :)

Problem is, it was underpriced to begin with. If you visit other turners booths with comparable tops? They get $8-$10 for one....:rolleyes: I was just dumbfounded.

I shoulda put a $20 price tag on the dang things so they had a reason to gripe about it. Maybe I'da sold more- it's ART baby. Ya gotta PAY for it! :D

[David Woodruff]

Having exhibited at a hundred or two, lost count, high end juried mixed media art shows/exhibits I decided early on to create flawless pieces. Actually never did achieve perfection, came close with the final finish. I literally would spend an entire day in leveling and polishing a large vase, bowl, hollow form, etc. I also priced accordingly. Over a several year period 1995 - 2004 my pieces averaged around $1100.00 each with a highest ever sale of $3,000.00 for a single piece.
My point on pricing is do your best work, make an objective comparison to your competitors and price accordingly. My original belief was that a truly level, well polished finish goes a long way in beating most competitors. I still think that is true. One has to price according to the venue. If you have nice work participate in juried shows only, you can at least double you price over the "craft show". Select the higher end juried shows and you can triple your price. In the high end venue form & finish attracts the eye and gets the sale and you still get to meet really weird people who look at the price and shake their head. There are those too who will insist that a nicely formed vase is blown glass.

[Curt Fuller]

Then there's always this poem.........


How Long Does It Take To Make One Of Those?

Do you mean…
not plant the tree, but find the wood,
just ‘see’ the piece, (as if I could)?
to find a highly figured burl,
a crotch, an eye, or pearly curl?
And once I spy it, perhaps buy it,
inventory, store, and dry it?
Then saw or cut it, possibly I kiln it’
glue, imbue with fill, or drill it?
You mean, that once I’m satisfied
it’s stopped the warps, checks, cracks, once dried?
And mounted on the lathe, to turn it,
(which takes much practice, just to learn it;
and then employ a gouge, or two,
or use a skew, which I don’t eschew,
to mold it, shape it (what’s your pleasure?)
by all means, I’m sure to measure,
then sand it smooth, please wear your mitts,
from coarse to fine, 10,000 grits,
then braze, or burnish, paint, or polish,
(the goal: enhance, and don’t demolish)?
Is that your question, start to end,
how long’s that path, its way to wend?
Or do you merely want to know how long it turned?
Ten minutes, or so.

John A. Styer, The Lathe-meister

[Harry Robinette]

Your work is worth what ever you fell it is.BUT talk to the top turners ,Lacer,Elsworth ,Vesery and others and find out that after 20yrs at THE TOP!! Their wifes are the ones making the day to day money.
We all have great expectations of sell our work for what we think it's worth
but is a very hard thing to do.In todays market you have to compramise if your going to make things to sell or do what I do and sell by word of mouth.
I make what I wont and people still buy it because as everyone knows I'll
give them a price we both can live with.
I make enough to make a buck and pay for my shop (sort of ) but I don't have all MY TURNINGS all over the house.
Just my thoughts on the subject.Works for me.