A question to my US friends...

[Paul Grant]

Last time I was hacking around a South Carolina golf course I was in awe of the live oak trees down there. I never see any reference to them anywhere on any WW page. Are they unworkable?? Protected species?? they sure seemed plentiful.....

Wondering Canadian.....

[Mike Cruz]

Hehe, protected...yeah, that's the ticket.

Actually, oak is used quite often. Probably the problem. A little overused. Many, many kitchen cabinets are oak. To the point that if you make oak cabinets, they almost seem cheap...no matter how nice you make 'em. That said, that "look" is more red oak. White oak gives a more antique look. It breaks the "oak look" while still using oak. But when using white oak, I have mostly seen it quartersawn for its rays.

This explanation is COMPLETELY my opinion. There are many that love oak, even red oak. Just not me...I think it is overused.

[glenn bradley]

California furniture reeks of red oak. It is inexpensive and over-used. Funny that you mention protected though. When I lived in Folsom, CA the oak trees were protected. You saw some unusual building, road and park layouts due to having to give a wide berth to any naturally occurring oak trees in that area.

[Peter Pedisich]

Live Oak was used on The USS Constitution, "Old Ironsides" much denser than white oak.
I'm going to look up if it is protected...

[Tony Bilello]

live oaks are protected and red oak is not. Although they are both oaks, they have little in common with eachother as far as the woodworker is concerned. Like 2 different animals.

[Neil Brooks]

Hehe, protected...yeah, that's the ticket.

Actually, oak is used quite often. Probably the problem. A little overused. Many, many kitchen cabinets are oak. To the point that if you make oak cabinets, they almost seem cheap...no matter how nice you make 'em. That said, that "look" is more red oak. White oak gives a more antique look. It breaks the "oak look" while still using oak. But when using white oak, I have mostly seen it quartersawn for its rays.

This explanation is COMPLETELY my opinion. There are many that love oak, even red oak. Just not me...I think it is overused.

That settles it.

If I ever have you over for dinner, you'll have to be blindfolded, in my kitchen ;)

[Dennis Ford]

Live oak is similiar to white oak, just harder, heavier and not as prone to cracking. It is good for woodworking but not commonly available.

[Richard Wolf]

Don't confuse live oak and red oak. Live oaks are gnarly twisted trees with lots of large branches, which means lots of knots.
Actually, live oaks are evergreens.

Richard

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I wonder if the term "live oak" is a generic term or if is mistakenly applied to more than one variety? Reason being, I could swear I've seen some really twisted, gnarly oaks in Texas. The limb on those things had gigantic curves to them that I have a hard time picture someone using in ship building. I remember seeing enough of it that I have a hard time picture it being "protected" unless it's a localized protection.

[Jim Andrew]

Here in Kansas, we have Burr oak. It's a white oak variety, but the color is more of a brown than white. I use some for projects, built a router table from it, just put on a natural finish, and it looks great.

[Jim Holman]

Checking in from Ridgeville SC. My next door neighbor has the pictured tree in his front yard, about 20 feet in circumference. The wood is little used commercially but you can find it at local sawmills fairly often. To me it is close to chestnut in texture, grain and working properties. After Hurricane Hugo, 1989, Mystic Seaport harvested several truckloads of live oak knees for use as support members on the wooden ships they restore.

[Chip Lindley]

I too, picture "live oak" as a huge, spreading, gnarly tree, most prevalent in the deep South. Here are prime examples:

http://www.google.com/images?q=live+oak+photo&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7TSNA_en___US354&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=aOv2TLtWwZuWB-rRzIEG&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQsAQwAA

Not much lumber there, but an awsome ornamental tree!

168961

[Alan Schwabacher]

Live oak makes pretty strong lumber. "Old ironsides" had live a oak hull 21" thick. Cannon balls that bounced off without causing damage led to the nickname.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution
(See Constitution vs Guerriere)

[mickey cassiba]

Live Oak is a name applied to several different oak species. The California live oak is so different from the 'live oaks' growing down here you'd barely know they were related.

[Peter Quinn]

Checking in from Ridgeville SC. My next door neighbor has the pictured tree in his front yard, about 20 feet in circumference. The wood is little used commercially but you can find it at local sawmills fairly often. To me it is close to chestnut in texture, grain and working properties. After Hurricane Hugo, 1989, Mystic Seaport harvested several truckloads of live oak knees for use as support members on the wooden ships they restore.

I was at Mystic Seaport over laor day weekend, they are restoring the Charles W Morgan whaling ship presently and do indeed have a lot of live oak timbers stacked up there! Big curved gnarly boughs meant for ribs and such. My father has a bunch of large live oaks in his yard in Florida, he has been cutting them since he moved in, and if they are protected someone should tell him! They are pretty much ubiquitous there. I'm told they are very hard and don't make much straight clear FAS type lumber that you might think of as furniture grade, and most that I have seen support that.

[Peter Pedisich]

I was at Mystic Seaport over laor day weekend, they are restoring the Charles W Morgan whaling ship presently and do indeed have a lot of live oak timbers stacked up there! Big curved gnarly boughs meant for ribs and such. My father has a bunch of large live oaks in his yard in Florida, he has been cutting them since he moved in, and if they are protected someone should tell him! They are pretty much ubiquitous there. I'm told they are very hard and don't make much straight clear FAS type lumber that you might think of as furniture grade, and most that I have seen support that.

Peter, I was at Mystic for the Fourth of July! these are some of the slabs...think they are Live Oak?

[Dan Hahr]

Near Gulf Breeze in NW Florida, we have a national park named Naval Live Oak Reservation. It is part of the Gulf Islands National Seashore. It is an area dedicated to the preservation of the live oaks once used for ship building many years ago.

They tend to grow short and spread out. I have one in my front yard that almost went over during Ivan. I elected not to cut it, even though it is leaning towards the power lines. I figure that if it survived Ivan, it will likely never come down. It is leaning some, though. If a future storm gets it, I am looking forward to sawing the 10' 24"C log it will produce.

I hear it is tough on knives as it has interlocked grain. It is very difficult to split, even when cut into 12" lengths. The wood is very white. I'm not sure what the wood will look like.

Dan

[Mike Cruz]

Okay, I have done two things: I've shown my ignorance, by not realizing that Live Oak is a kind of oak (never heard of it, never seen one); and offended the oak lovers. ;) Sorry on both counts.

First, I was not trying to confuse or compare Live Oak with Red Oak...again, just ignorant or the former species.

Secondly, I didn't mean to offend those that love the strength and character of Red Oak.

The problem, in my view, is that, in the OP's reference to Live Oak, the L in Live was not capitalized. Therefore, I assumed (yeah, I did it) that the OP mean alive and not dead. There are a million different species of oaks. Many are mixed up and grouped together. Within "White Oak" there are a number of oaks species around here that just get called White Oak, even if it is a Pin Oak or whatever. (Or did I just get that mixed up...is a Pin Oak a Red Oak? :confused:) Anyway, Sorry for the confusion.

What should have made me scratch my head a little harder and not jump in with my answer is that I'm preeeeetty sure our norther neighbors have oaks...dead and alive...:rolleyes:

[Jim Rimmer]

I don't know that Live Oaks are protected but they are generally admired and revered in the South (including Texas) contrary to some of the comments here. There is a beautiful plantation home called Oak Alley that has a drive lined with Live oaks that is several hundred yards long and it's like a tunnel going under them.

As Ken mentioned, they are a type of evergreen in that they don't drop their leaves in the fall. Kind of a deciduous evergreen, :confused: I planted some at a home I built in 1996 (thinking I would live there forever) to give shade to the west side of the house. I almost lost them the second winter because we had a rain followed by a freeze. There was so much water frozen on the leaves that the tops were bent over to the ground. the weight of the ice even pulled my stakes out of the ground which had been softened by the rain. They live for hundreds of years and most folks like the way the large limbs spread out almost horizontally.

After Hurricane Ike, Galveston lost thousands of them due to the salt water that came ashore and they had to be cut down. Many of the beautiful boulevards now look naked. The wood was offered up to anyone who wanted it but I don't know how may takers they had.

There was a very large and very old tree in Austin that was called the Treaty Oak (I can't remeber which treaty was signed under it) and a few years ago some pervert poisoned it. Experts from all over the world tried to save it. I don't remember the outcome.

[Mike Cruz]

Just to make my point a little clearer...

If I told you I found some gum in the woods, may you not misinterperet my statement?

Oh, and this is NOT a slam on the OP. Many to most, if not all, of the responses to this thread refer to this tree as a live oak...with no capital letters. It is merely what caused my confusion.

[John Neel]

An interesting book on the history and many uses of oak is

Oak: The Frame of Civilization by William Bryant Logan

The chapter on ship building and why it was used for such and the discussion of joinery were my favorites.

[Josiah Bartlett]

My understanding is that live oak refers to any species of oak that doesn't drop leaves and go dormant seasonally.

[Paul Grant]

Sorry about the spelling of Live Oak......sometimes, actually all the time, my head thinks faster than I can type...

[Curt Harms]

Checking in from Ridgeville SC. My next door neighbor has the pictured tree in his front yard, about 20 feet in circumference. The wood is little used commercially but you can find it at local sawmills fairly often. To me it is close to chestnut in texture, grain and working properties. After Hurricane Hugo, 1989, Mystic Seaport harvested several truckloads of live oak knees for use as support members on the wooden ships they restore.

I was at Mystic Seaport a few years ago. One of the displays was the beginning stages of wooden ship construction. A large Live Oak knee was used to transition from the keel to the stem. That way there's nothing cut or joined in the curve. I'm not sure about terminology, not nautically inclined.

[Mark Ashmeade]

From Wikipedia:


Poisoning and recovery
In 1989, in an act of deliberate vandalism, the tree was poisoned with the powerful hardwood-herbicide, Velpar. Lab tests showed the quantity of herbicide used would have been sufficient to kill 100 trees.[1] The incident sparked community outrage, national news reports, and a torrent of home-made "Get Well" cards from children that were displayed on the fence around the park. Texas industrialist and former Reform Party candidate for U.S. President, Ross Perot wrote a 'blank check' to fund efforts to save the tree.[2] DuPont, the herbicide manufacturer, established a $10,000 reward to capture the poisoner. The vandal, Paul Cullen, was apprehended after reportedly bragging about poisoning the tree as a means of casting a spell.[3] Cullen was convicted of felony criminal mischief and sentenced to serve nine years in prison.
The intensive efforts to save the Treaty Oak included applications of sugar to the root zone, replacement of soil around its roots and the installation of a system to mist the tree with spring water. Although arborists expected the tree to die, the Treaty Oak survived. However, almost two-thirds of the tree died and more than half of its crown had to be pruned.


Nine years. That's what I call a spanking.

[Gene Howe]

Visited St. Augustine a few yeas ago. There was a HUGE live oak there that had been cored and determined to be over 600 years old. It branched at about 6'. A beautiful and revered tree!

[Mike Cruz]

Any pics of that Live Oak then and or now?

[Mike Cruz]

No biggie, Paul. Lack of capitalization, bad punctuation, misspelling, and poor grammar (and I'm sure I violated at least one or two of those just now ;)) are all too common in forums. Especially when people use their phones to post. I really should have known better. I did have a slight head tilt and paused for a fraction of a second. I should have listened to my gut. But as usual, my mind overrode my gut. :o

[rick carpenter]

After Hurricane Hugo, 1989, Mystic Seaport harvested several truckloads of live oak knees...

Carpetbaggers!

[Dino Drosas]

I live in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina and have about fifty Live Oak trees in my yard. Do not think for a moment the they do not drop their leaves annually. It happens in the the spring. They drop them the entire month of May followed by dropping small squiggley seed clusters that stain everything dark when they get wet. During this entire time new leaves are coming on the trees to take the place of the old ones so the trees are never bare and give the impression that the keep their leaves all year long. During May my yard guys pick up about a hundred very large bags of leaves each week for at least five weeks.

[glenn bradley]

Don't confuse live oak and red oak. Live oaks are gnarly twisted trees with lots of large branches, which means lots of knots.
Actually, live oaks are evergreens.

Richard

I believe Richard has cleared up the mystery for me. The protected oaks in Folsom were indeed the Sleepy Hallow style gnarled type beasts. I never could figure out why a crop grown tree was protected(?). Turns out it is a different tree :o

[David Hostetler]

I see a lot of smaller mills around these parts milling both Live Oak and Post Oak and calling it White Oak... However both Live and Post oaks are denser. Yeah it gets used in WW projects, it's sort of like working Pecan / Hickory without the pretty color variations...

[Todd Crawford]

I live in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina and have about fifty Live Oak trees in my yard. Do not think for a moment the they do not drop their leaves annually. It happens in the the spring. They drop them the entire month of May followed by dropping small squiggley seed clusters that stain everything dark when they get wet. During this entire time new leaves are coming on the trees to take the place of the old ones so the trees are never bare and give the impression that the keep their leaves all year long. During May my yard guys pick up about a hundred very large bags of leaves each week for at least five weeks.

Agree - Spent much of my time as a kid racking these leaves!

[Jim Rimmer]

I live in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina and have about fifty Live Oak trees in my yard. Do not think for a moment the they do not drop their leaves annually. It happens in the the spring. They drop them the entire month of May followed by dropping small squiggley seed clusters that stain everything dark when they get wet. During this entire time new leaves are coming on the trees to take the place of the old ones so the trees are never bare and give the impression that the keep their leaves all year long. During May my yard guys pick up about a hundred very large bags of leaves each week for at least five weeks.
Oh, I know what you mean. I didn't mean to say they didn't drop their leaves. They do it year round here in Texas so it's a constant battle with leaves. Worst in the spring and fall but always some new ones in and old ones off.

[Todd Crawford]

Oh, I know what you mean. I didn't mean to say they didn't drop their leaves. They do it year round here in Texas so it's a constant battle with leaves. Worst in the spring and fall but always some new ones in and old ones off.

When I remodeled our house a couple of years ago, my wife wanted to plant a live oak in the front yard. My Dad transplanted one from his place to our yard with a note attached that read "may it live long enough for you to wonder why you asked for it!"