Large Hard Maple Newel Post Blank - How to Dry

[Patrick Tipton]

Gentlemen:

I am in the process of reproducing a stair case in my 1860's farmhouse. The newel post for the main staircase was turned from a solid piece of 7 1/2 square hard maple - ie it has a pommel at the bottom and several elements that are around 7 inches. I am having a bear of time sourcing a dry, large a piece of maple as almost all of the sawyers I have contacted say it is simply too big to dry without cracking. I have access to plenty of hard maple, so obtaining a large piece isn't the problem.

Notwithstanding the fact that my sawyers say I can't dry a piece that large without cracking, my original is a solid, beautiful piece of hard maple. Someone knew how to dry a large piece without checking. In looking at the original, I think it was turned dry. There is no checking and no noticeable out of roundness that would indicate it was turned green. They did not hollow the center.

I know I could laminate a large piece, but as the piece will be finished naturally, I would prefer to avoid the glue lines.

Anyone have any experience drying something this large? The staircase needs to be installed by April, so I can't wait for it to air dry. My local sawyer called this morning and is going to cut me an 8" x 8" x 48" blank. I am thinking that I am going to seal the ends and then move it into my house to start the drying process. I do have a lightbulb powered kiln that I use to dry green stock - I might put the piece in there in February or so. I am thinking I will let it dry until March, turn it, install it and then hope for the best. Suggestions?

[george wilson]

Nobody would dry 8" square oak either. We had to make a 6" dia, screw for the Bookbinder's press,where I was the toolmaker. We had to take a piece of old,gray 8" sq. oak laying out of doors under a shed roof. We turned the screw oversized to help remove some material to help it dry. Then,we just let the wood lay around the shop for several years. It did shrink significantly oval. Eventually,we completed the screw.

I am sure you don't want to wait several years. The rule is 1" thickness per year for air drying in maple.

IF YOU PUT IT into a heated area,like your hot box,it may likely develop severe cracks. That's why they don't dry large timbers in kilns.

1 month is not going to do anything for you at all. Sorry,this is not being helpful,but those are the facts.

GET a 2" hole bored through the center axis of the timber. Stop a little short of the top of the post. Guys who drill propeller shaft holes in wooden fishing boats can do this. This will at least help the timber not develop cracks on the outside areas. I had this done when I had to make a huge cider press screw 12" in dia.,with a 16" bulged area at one end,from a green beechwood log. It never did burst open in drying,because the center of the log had somewhere to go in shrinking in upon itself. No one ever saw the hole in use.

[David Weaver]

I can't vouch for how your piece was done, but back then, there was a much larger selection of air dried years old wood.

It's not unlikely that the 7x7 length of wood used to make it was cut from a significantly larger piece.

I air dry turning blanks and wet wood almost as thick as that (never maple, though) and find it's not that easy to do it without surface checking or cracks somewhere, especially on exotics. I usually lose about an inch of thickness or a little less after a year or so to saw off the cracked and checked areas, and that checking happens almost immediately.

The people you are talking to are probably thinking that it's very difficult to dry a piece of maple that large in a kiln, or that it's very difficult to rough dimension something almost that size and then be sure that it won't have checks or cracks in it.

I think you have two good options, one would take several years before the wood is ready to go:
1) reclaim something that is already old and dry to that size (expensive)
2) rough cut a much larger billet of maple and seal it with anchorseal and let it air dry - check it once a month the first year and glue any cracks that start to form (corny, i know, but it works - it's not feasible for a large amount of lumber, but for one piece).

If you're lucky, you may eventually find someone who has something like you want in stock, but I'd bet they'll want a mint for it. There aren't many lumber suppliers who will sit on really large pieces until they're dry and then sell reasonable, and if you find one, I'd like to know for my own personal interest.

[David Weaver]

george, you beat me to it. :o

[george wilson]

Lumber sawyers do not let logs lay around in their mills,because there is no profit in it. YOU MIGHT FIND an OLD LOG that has barbed wire in one end,and has been left to lie until it turned gray,and the bark fell off. But,then,the wood would be full of blue frost from being out in the weather.

David's suggestion of getting a piece of reclaimed lumber would work,but you aren't going to find maple. Possibly oak,more likely pine. Can you use the reclaimed lumber,and replace the post years later when you get your maple dry?

I've seen,and used,very nice pieces of heart pine from old things like roller coasters or old warehouses. Williamsburg's millwork shop ONLY uses old,reclaimed heart pine that they get from some place. It is VERY expensive,about $20.00 bd.'. Call 757-229-1000 and ask for the millwork shop. Tim Edwards runs it. They are there 7:00-3:30. Ask him where they get their reclaimed lumber. Use my name. I've done a lot for them.

[David Weaver]

Possibly oak,more likely pine.

Those are all I've ever seen around here, too. Barn posts. Barns come down somewhere every day, but they are always oak or pine here, and people always want more for the wood than I'd be willing to pay. I guess someone is giving it to them, but it's probably not DIYers or hobbyist woodworkers.

There is always the someone unsatisfactory choice to fabricate an outside of 4/4 or 8/4 stock, too, and make very tidy joints so it's not that easily noticed. Being maple, they will move at some point in the future, though. That could be an alternative to get you through 6-10 years of drying time on a larger post.

[Frank Drew]

My local sawyer called this morning and is going to cut me an 8" x 8" x 48" blank.

Patrick,

How is the original newel post anchored? Many of the ones I've seen in older houses are lapped and pegged or mortised or otherwise fastened onto the floor joist, so there's often a fair amount of post length below the floor that doesn't show; will 48" be long enough?

[David Weaver]

I missed the original comment about the dimensions. If you want a finished thickness of 7", go larger than 8 to start. 8 gives you no margin for error, especially if it moves in addition to checking or cracking.

Length, too, as frank says. It's likely it'll check at the ends if they aren't waxed. You want some margin all the way around when you get only one shot at it.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Drying large timbers is difficult to do without cracking, but it can be and is done, though not ofen. Rather than using either a steam or dehumidification kiln, the key is using a vacuum kiln. Vacuum kilns suck the moisture out of wood in the presence of heat, the hemperature of which varies and changes over the length of the process. When you pull the vacuum, the center of the piece dries first as the moisture is drawn to the surface. The last part of the wood to dry is the outer surface. The result is wood which has no warp or twist, no crack or check, and is really stable. The difficulty is that vacuum kilns are not as common as the other types, are far more expensive to operate, and are generally quite small (1000-5000 bdft)

[John Neel]

How fast is the vacuum kiln?

Would a vacuum bag used to press veneer while gluing worK?

How about a length of 10" pvc pipe with appropriate end caps and a small vacuum pump? It would be a small kiln, but it would do his post.

Is heat required to make this work?

Clearly the concept fascinates me :)

John Neel

[Dave Anderson NH]

John, the only vacuum kiln I've seen is at Goose Bay Lumber and Sawmill in Chichester, NH. It has a 1000 bdft capacity and is about 5 feet wide 18 feet long and about 4 feet tall. It is heavily insulated to retain heat. A couple of layers of lumber are laid in on stickers and then a large aluminum plate is dropped on top. This plate has hollow tubes built into it similar to the layout pattern on a heated floor. The plate is hooked up to hoses, another set of layers of wood is added and the process is repeated until the kiln is full. A final plate with a gasket is laid on top and the vacuum pump is activated. The tubing has heated liquid running through it. I don't remember much in the way of the details, but if I recall correctly, there is a recommended schedule of temperature cycling based on both wood species and the thickness of the wood. Drying times vary from a week to a month, but this is only from my memory so take it with a grain of salt. The kiln manufacturer provides a book of table with the recommended drying schedules, but even there some experimentation is required. I remember the owner Carl Malstead telling me there was a learning curve after he first got the kiln in spite of the tech support.

[george wilson]

Boring a hole almost all the way through the center axis of the post will still provide good insurance that the wood won't split open during drying.

[Johnny Kleso]

Is there any way to make segments and glue them together?

I know its not original but use 2" stock mitered for the squares and short bowl blanks for the rounds and glued together?

[Andrae Covington]

Is there any way to make segments and glue them together?

I know its not original but use 2" stock mitered for the squares and short bowl blanks for the rounds and glued together?

That's what I was thinking, though I must admit I really don't know what I'm talking about as I've never turned anything. Would a mitered octagon work for the turnings?

Have you checked around at architectural salvage places? There's always a chance someone might have an appropriate newel post pulled out of another old farmhouse, or a beam large enough to use. Granted, a hard maple beam would be unlikely, but not unheard of.

Looks like there's a Habitat for Humanity Restore (http://www.sussexcountyhfh.org/restore.html) there in Branchville.

There's a business called Lumberland Post & Beam (http://www.lumberlandpostandbeam.com/) in Pond Eddy, NY; might give them a call and see if they have any sources for what you need.

[Patrick Tipton]

Thanks for all the great comments.

1. I think 48" should be long enough - the finished post is 38" with a 2" turned cap that ties into the handrail.

2. I haven't taken it apart (because I would have to remove plaster off the underside of the stairs leading into the basement), but I believe the post is center drilled from the bottom with a mortise for a nut on the stair side and then bolted thru the floor joist with a threaded rod. The first stair step is notched as well and the square portion of the post sits against the riser. With a 7" square base, I am thinking the threaded rod thru the floor joist will be very stable.

3. The post I am replicating is 7" on one side and about 6 3/4 on the other. I messed up in my first post stating that it was 7 1/2". I am shooting for finished dimension of at least 6 1/2". Do you guys think 1 1/2 inches oversized is cutting it too close?

4. The vacuum kiln sounds great - although I don't know of anyone who has one.

5. George, I like the idea of drilling out the center and think I will start off doing that. I need to poke around and see if I can find a boat shop equipped to do the drilling. Once I get the hole drilled, I am going to anchorseal the ends and then let it sit.

6. We had a power outage for much of the day so I didn't have Internet access to search more, but I did manage to find a nice reclaimed piece of 10" x 10" ash for $50. It is in CA and I am in NJ, so the shipping may be too much, but I am thinking that this may be the best route until my maple dries.

7. All of the various glue up suggestions are good ones - the only problem is that the glue lines will show. Not the end of the world and I may end up there, but I am going to start by trying to dry a solid piece.

8. As for architectural salvage, there are a number of places nearby and I might find something that is close. Even Ebay has quite a few. Even though a salvaged newel might be easier, I want to make it just because http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif.

I am copying all of the balusters - 90 or so of them. I have made 10 and they are coming out pretty fast now. I could use a duplicator, but this gives me a good excuse to do a lot of turning and the repetition is a great opportunity to refine my turning skills. The attached picture is a replacement for a broken baluster in the "old staircase". I need to finish it - I can replicate the look of old shellac with milk paint, but I may try an aniline die in shellac to see how close I can get. I think I am just going to shellac the new staircase and let it age naturally.

Thanks again guys!

[george wilson]

Definitely try to DYE the shellac. The finish needs to be transparent. Have you looked at Minwax stains? I like them because they have warmth and depth in them. Some other brands do not,and look cold and lifeless.

[Patrick Tipton]

I used a mix of Minwax to replicate the look of aged pine beadboard for a porch ceiling. I believe I used a mix of their Mahogany and a Maple. I used their conditioner as well - really helped to reduce blotchy patches on the pine.

Have you ever tinted shellac? I wonder if you could mix the Minwax stain right into the shellac? I am going to order some shellac today and I will start playing chemist when it comes in.

Regards, Patrick