Buffing

[Ken Hill]

I see everyone recommends or uses the Beall set up, and thats what I am looking at as well. I do have a large polishing motor but its way to faster for buffing wood. Is there a way to make it variable speed, such as they do with the lathe conversions? I figured if there is a way and its less expensive then the beall I could easily set it up with softer wheels. I have tons of the polishing compounds that I believe are the same (red and white rouge) The shafts are 3/4 inch and extend 12 inches out from the motor itself. I used it to polish aluminum before powder coating it clear but havent had much call for that in a long time.


If its to much hassle I will just go another route. Ive never buffed wood with anything beyond elbow grease or a drill. I do know that you can jack up a finish real quick.

[Mark Hubl]

Ken,

What is the rpm of your buffer? I have a big jet and it works fine. But it is a 1750 rpm motor.

The rouges are pretty much the same, tripoli (the rusty) and white diamond (white). The wax is a hard carnuba. The thing about the beall stuff is the configuration of the buffs. For wood you want soft wheels. He explains his configuration on documentation on his site. Also a couple of good vids.

[Ken Hill]

Mine is a 3/4 hp with a 3600 rpm...way to fast. I can get the right type of wheels for the shaft size for bufing wood, so thats no issue.

I would imagine there has to be a fairly simple way of knocking that down via a variable speed control similair to what they use on teh non VS lathes. I could just get the set up for the lathe but if I could have a stand alone set up, that would be even better

[Ken Hill]

I was thinking of something like this
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Router-Speed-Control-20-Amp/G3555

Im not much of an electrician, and I know somewhere there may be something to do with teh frequency that the motors operate but im not sure if that relates to ac or dc motors...

[Rich Greinert]

Ken, I have a 1750 RPM motor set up with Beall buffing wheels and it works fine. Recently a friend set up a 3500 RPM motor with buffing wheels and it works very well for buffing woods finished with Watco oil (that is all we've used it for so far). I think if I were you I would put some wheels on your motor and give it a try before revamping the speed of the motor. Might not need to be done at all.

Good Luck!
Rich

[Ken Hill]

Thanks Rich, do you know what size (diameter) wheels he went with? From search, 4 inch wheels seem to be the ones for that RPM

[Dale Bright]

Ken,

Check out Don Pencil's site for buffing wheels, supplies and information.

Dale

[John Keeton]

Ken, it might be nice to have a dedicated buffing setup, but I use the morse taper mandrel for my lathe, and it works great. Just takes seconds to slap the adapter in the drive spindle, and spin on a buffing wheel. http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/141070.jpg

I just move thru the grits that way. Throw it all back in the box, and slide it under my bench out of the way.

At Steve Schlumpf's suggestion, I also buff at around 700rpm - just at the point where the wheel surface starts to hold shape when you apply the wood to it. Seems to work fine, and less likely to burn thru the finish.

If you are going to end up using Renaissance wax you may not want to start out with the Carnauba on your wax wheel, as you will need to clean it off good when you switch to Ren wax.

Also, I notice that PSI has their own microcrystalline brand now, which looks identical to Ren wax and much cheaper - as does Lee Valley. A little Ren wax goes a LOOONG way. I have used mine on several turnings, and it barely looks like it has been touched.

[Ken Hill]

Thanks for the link Dale, I will be sure to check it out.

John, I went ahead and ordered the complete wheel and bowl set up from Beall with the morse taper adapter etc. I dont really have the time to waste trying to make things work (only 90 days before I hit the road)

I also searched for 4 inch buffs for a 3/4 arbor but did not find any. I use it mainly these days for polishing handgun gun barrels before refinishing, so the big unit wont sit idle.

The only waxes i've ever used on turnings is the Crystal coat from Hut and either 3M or Mequires scratch remover and Carnuba for finishing CA on my calls. I have been watching closely the threads that have info on the Ren wax but I will be sure to check out the product you mentioned at PSI.

Im sure the Beall stuff will arive next week, but I will be at Bear camp so the oil finishes I have working now will be nice and dry when I return!

[Paul Douglass]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been told that clear shoe polish is the same as Renaissance wax, only a lot lot cheaper. I use Renaissance wax a lot, bought a pretty big can and in order to use it up before it dries out I have waxed my lathe ways and table saw top with it.

I'm learning something new here. I have the Beall buffing system that I use on my lathe. I have always buffed at high speed because that is what the Beall site showed me. Maybe that is not a good thing.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ken I guess you already ordered one but I got a 1750 rpm motor. It works pretty well.

[Ken Hill]

No Bernie, I just ordered the morse taper and buffs so I can use my lathe for now. I dont think the VS unit I posted will work on my motor and its too expensive to burn up. I will keep my eyes open for a sale or see if i can locate a slow rpm e-motor....

[Rich Greinert]

Ken, the wheels are 6 inch diameter.
Rich

[Michael Mills]

You have already ordered but rather than a new motor you could get four pillow blocks, pulleys, and mandrels fairly reasonable. You would even have an auxiliary (I put a drill chuck on mine) for wire wheels, sanding drum, etc.

[Ken Hill]

Thanks for the info Rich, those I did locate

Micheal, I can get a 1/2 hp 1700 rpm motor for around $150 and probably less if I wait for sales and internet discount coupons etc. I will be first to admit, im not much of a McGyver when it comes to building stuff like that...I always end up spending as much as if i'd have just bought new LOL! That and I am one impatient rascal:D

[Mark Hubl]

If you can find a local heating and cooling guy you might be able to get a motor on the cheap. When they do a furnace replacement alot of times the motor is still good. All the rest of the stuff can be had from McMaster and Carr.

[Ray Bell]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been told that clear shoe polish is the same as Renaissance wax, only a lot lot cheaper. I use Renaissance wax a lot, bought a pretty big can and in order to use it up before it dries out I have waxed my lathe ways and table saw top with it.

I'm learning something new here. I have the Beall buffing system that I use on my lathe. I have always buffed at high speed because that is what the Beall site showed me. Maybe that is not a good thing.

Ok you buffing experts, what is the right speed ? I have been using a 3200 RPM motor, but is this too fast? Because of this thread I just ordered the Beale morse taper for my lathe. That way I can control the speed if 3200 is too fast.

[Mark Levitski]

Ken, don't give up on that polishing machine. That RPM is good for smaller diameters. The 3" bowl buffs would be OK for example. Great for interiors. What sets these motors apart from a standard motor is the long shaft on each side. You just need to find the right shaft adapter.

Like Mark H., we have a 1725 Jet for one 8" wheel on one side and the other side a flap sander. The other two Beall 8" wheels are on our first dedicated buffing machine--a Caswell 1100 RPM. That one's real nice. We also have a small Grizzly for a hard felt sharpening wheel and various smaller bowl buffs. It is a 3450 RPM.

Mark

[Ken Hill]

Thanks Mark, I wont throw in the towel, i've had this set up for many years and would like to use it in some fashion for the buffing. I know it should be easier to buff on it thanks to teh long extending shafts over the lathe set up but for most small bowls and such I am sure the lathe will do just fine. I love oil finishes so buffing was coming regardless.

If I read correctly, the 3400 or so RPM with 3 or 4 inch wheels is equivilant to a 8 inch wheel at 1400 rpm..give or take. Ray, not sure if that helps you or not. I dont have any expierence with buffing wood on something like this, only metal. Ive had things ripped from my hands many times, so doing the wood will be a test of my intestinal fortitude if my big unit is used. I used to have to do a shot of bourbon before commencing polishing LOL!

[Jake Helmboldt]

Thanks for the info Rich, those I did locate

Micheal, I can get a 1/2 hp 1700 rpm motor for around $150 and probably less if I wait for sales and internet discount coupons etc. I will be first to admit, im not much of a McGyver when it comes to building stuff like that...I always end up spending as much as if i'd have just bought new LOL! That and I am one impatient rascal:D

Ken, I got a 1700 rpm GE motor wth 1/2" buffing wheel mandrel at an estate sale for $8 last month. There were probably 1/2 dozen motors for sale for less than $10 each.

I'm ordering some wheels from Caswell Plating (about $5 each) and will have a whole setup for about $20. I suggest looking in classifieds or Craigslist for an old motor and get the wheels from Caswell. Use your lathe in the meantime and save the money for something else.

[Ray Bell]

Ok, lets see if I have this right. If it is too fast, and snatches the bowl out of your hand, which incidentally has happened to me several times, you pour a shot of bourbon on the wheel;) and this helps???

[Ken Hill]

Jake, this might seem like an idiotic question, but how do you tell if the e-motor spins the correct way? And am I correct in thinking that they can be wired to spin in reverse? I am not an electician, not a plumber and I sure aint no carpenter....so bare with me haha:D

[Ken Hill]

Ok, lets see if I have this right. If it is too fast, and snatches the bowl out of your hand, which incidentally has happened to me several times, you pour a shot of bourbon on the wheel;) and this helps???


The Bourbon doesnt come with directions, just wing it:p

[Ray Bell]

The Bourbon doesnt come with directions, just wing it:p

Whew, thanks Ken, I think I know how to handle this.

[John Keeton]

I'm ordering some wheels from Caswell Plating ...Jake, the Beall system uses cotton for the wax, cotton and linen blend for the white diamond, and 100% linen for the tripoli (or at least I think that is the order.) The Caswell wheels are cotton. That difference may or may not make a difference in the abrasiveness and/or wear. I have the Beall and have not tried the Caswell - they may do fine.

[Clint Baxter]

I was thinking of something like this
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Router-Speed-Control-20-Amp/G3555

Im not much of an electrician, and I know somewhere there may be something to do with teh frequency that the motors operate but im not sure if that relates to ac or dc motors...

These speed controllers only work for universal motors such as a router motor or can be found on portable table saws. If what you have is an induction motor, similar to ones on stationary power tools, this type of controller is not going to work.

Good luck on the buffing.

Clint

[Fred Belknap]

Ken I have the Beal system and I first used it on a separate 1750rpm motor and I thought it was running to fast. I did like John K and use it on the lathe at around 700rpm and it seems to work better.
Fred

[James Combs]

Ken, it might be nice to have a dedicated buffing setup, but I use the morse taper mandrel for my lathe, and it works great. Just takes seconds to slap the adapter in the drive spindle, and spin on a buffing wheel. http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/141070.jpg

I just move thru the grits that way. Throw it all back in the box, and slide it under my bench out of the way.

At Steve Schlumpf's suggestion, I also buff at around 700rpm - just at the point where the wheel surface starts to hold shape when you apply the wood to it. Seems to work fine, and less likely to burn thru the finish.

If you are going to end up using Renaissance wax you may not want to start out with the Carnauba on your wax wheel, as you will need to clean it off good when you switch to Ren wax.

Also, I notice that PSI has their own microcrystalline brand now, which looks identical to Ren wax and much cheaper - as does Lee Valley. A little Ren wax goes a LOOONG way. I have used mine on several turnings, and it barely looks like it has been touched.

Well... I guess I will try slowing mine down a little also. I was going by Beal's recommendations at about 1700-1900 and I did burn through on one small cedar vase.

[Thomas Canfield]

Dale mentioned looking at Don Pencil site for buffing. I second that. I have the 1 1/4" buffing adapter in 8" and 12" lenghts for my Powermatic and the 1" x 8" adapter for my mini. I use the Powermatic usually with buffing wheels, and the mini for bowl buffs or inside of hollow work to avoid changing buffing medium. I also have the taper shaft 3 wheel system from Bealle that has not been used since I got the Don Pencil buffing system. The 3 wheel just did not work for larger items for me.

[Harvey Schneider]

Those speed controllers are for universal (brush) motors only. They will not work with induction motors.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Jake, this might seem like an idiotic question, but how do you tell if the e-motor spins the correct way? And am I correct in thinking that they can be wired to spin in reverse? I am not an electician, not a plumber and I sure aint no carpenter....so bare with me haha:D

Ken, I'm not really good with the electrics either, but in my case the motor I got is reversible. Take a close look at any used motors and you might see a wiring diagram that shows rotation and ability to reverse. I can't recall if I noticed it when I bought it, but once home I swapped two leads and voila, right rotation (well, left actually).

Honestly, it doesn't totally matter though. The one I got had been set up for buffing with a crusty old wheel on it (went into the trash). It had a mandrel mounted and for some reason the guy hadn't reversed the rotation, but instead used two nuts on the arbor (one as a locknut).