Liquid Mask

[Martin Boekers]

This appears to be a new product from Laser Bits.

www.laserbits.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=447_632 (http://www.laserbits.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=447_632)

Anyone aware of it or tried it yet?

Thanks!

[Dan Ashlin]

hmm, that stuff seems pretty handy. it would save me from having scraps of masking material laying around. Its pretty pricey though.

[Martin Boekers]

Doing a bit more research I came up with this;

www.generalchemicalcorp.mybigcommerce.com/categories/Peelable-Coatings%2C-Strippable-Coatings%2C-Maskants/Laser-Protection/ (http://www.generalchemicalcorp.mybigcommerce.com/categories/Peelable-Coatings%2C-Strippable-Coatings%2C-Maskants/Laser-Protection/)

Quite a bit cheaper.

Have to do a bit more homework;)


Marty

[Gary Hair]

From General Chemical it's about $62.00 shipped to Oregon vs $134.95 from LaserBits - without shipping. Come on LaserBits, you need to make a profit but you can't be serious with this one...

[Dan Ashlin]

Yeah, im totally going with the general chemicals stuff

[Dee Gallo]

Not that exact brand, but I've used liquid frisket for airbrushing things like motorcycle helmets and tanks. Works well, easier than cutting tape or frisket to fit curved substrate, but you have to watch the pinholes you might get from brushing/rolling it on too fast (air bubbles). Needs to be kind of thickish.

You can get it in small quantities from airbrush supply places like Bear Air.

cheers, dee

[Martin Boekers]

Not that exact brand, but I've used liquid frisket for airbrushing things like motorcycle helmets and tanks. Works well, easier than cutting tape or frisket to fit curved substrate, but you have to watch the pinholes you might get from brushing/rolling it on too fast (air bubbles). Needs to be kind of thickish.

You can get it in small quantities from airbrush supply places like Bear Air.

cheers, dee

Hi Dee, I have used similar things in the past, such as frisket also,
sometimes I get nervous about lasering with materials I'm not familiar with.


Does this laser with a pretty clean edge?
Better for vector cutting or just as good for raster?
How does it hold detail?
Does it work for a fill?
How easy is it to remove, even in the little nooks an cranies
of text?
It says it takes about a half hour to dry, is that about right?
Does it vaporize cleanly or leave a residue that gets into the pores
of the material?


Sooooo many questions sooooo little time!:D


Thanks!

[Mike Fruciano]

Greetings Creekers,
Thanks for the thread on our new product. I tried the products from General Chemical and several other manufactures and they dont peel off most of the products we work with in the laser engraving industry.

The LiquaMASK product has been in development for over two years...and yes it works. Even for light sand blasting.

Do be careful of many products like liquid frisket that are pvc based. These materials product toxic fumes and will void your laser system warranty.

This product has been tested for outgassing and is laser safe. It also peels off with a slight tug. Works great for color filling and general masking of products.

It will vaporize cleanly and leave a clean edge. Drying time will vary but usually 20-30 minutes will get 'er done. Moving air and warm arizona days help.

The product is special blended for us based on the testing we have done. I sure wish an off the shelf would have worked and we could buy it at home depot.

Like all of our products, it is guaranteed to perform and we stand behind it.

I think you will like it a lot and find lots of creative applications for it.

Mike-

[Michael Kowalczyk]

From General Chemical it's about $62.00 shipped to Oregon vs $134.95 from LaserBits - without shipping. Come on LaserBits, you need to make a profit but you can't be serious with this one...

Hey Gary,
Find out if the one from general chem is PVC based. If it is that's why the diff in price. I would not use it if they gave it to me if it is PVC based.

My health and life is worth more than trying to save $72.95 plus shipping.

Like Martin said "I get nervous about lasering with materials I'm not familiar with" and rightfully so or it could be the last thing you laser.:(

[Dee Gallo]

[QUOTE=Martin Boekers;1571325]Hi Dee, I have used similar things in the past, such as frisket also,
sometimes I get nervous about lasering with materials I'm not familiar with.

Mike, you are 100% right. I was just answering the "have you ever used..." part of the question. Personally, I would not use this kind of masking for anything flat or even curved. The only time I'd be looking for this kind of mask is for round things, which would be few and far between on my laser... I don't engrave spheres or eggs. Yet. hahaha

Sometimes the old tried and true is the best. What the old saying? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

:) dee

[Scott Shepherd]

Do you really need the $134 size? It covers 16,000 square inches.

Surely the $23 can will be enough for most to get started and see if it's something they like?????

[Dan Hintz]

Good find, Martin... I can't find the MSDS for that particular chemical, so someone will have to email (or call) GenChem. It's water based, which leads me to believe it's not a PVC material.

[Gary Hair]

Hey Gary,
Find out if the one from general chem is PVC based. If it is that's why the diff in price. I would not use it if they gave it to me if it is PVC based.

My health and life is worth more than trying to save $72.95 plus shipping.

Like Martin said "I get nervous about lasering with materials I'm not familiar with" and rightfully so or it could be the last thing you laser.:(

This stuff is marketed as a laser mask so it shouldn't be pvc based. It doesn't specifically say it isn't, but here is the description from their website.

Product Description
Laser Protect 5900 offers cost-effective protection during laser processing and engraving. A tough weather-resistant film, withstands hazards , scratching and solvents overspray. It removes cleanly without leaving residue.




Results in a reduction of labor costs.
Once cured, it provides an extremely tough, uniform film thickness.
Curing time can be cut considerably with the use heat lamps (100F), circulation of air and other factors.
Easily removed...peels off in sheets which eliminates messy hand scrapping
Safe...non flammable
Suitable for all substrates including polycarbonates, plastic and painted surfaces

I have nothing against LaserBits but this seems, for all intents and purposes, to be identical to their product but at less than 1/2 the price. I know that General Chemical private labels their products, I wonder if that's who is making the stuff for LaserBits?

[Rodne Gold]

This might be a good resist for acid/ferric etching , we use a polyester vinyl and this needs to be sandblasted after lasering to remove residues , apart from being very hard to remove after etching. Anyone tried this stuff? Does it laser "clean" , IE leave NO residue at all when ablated?

[Mike Null]

There are a number of liquid friskets available at art supply stores. They start at less than $10 for an 8 oz bottle. I've used them for water colors but not for engraving. Most seem to be latex which is safe to engrave.

I agree with Dee that this would be for non-flat items.

[Steve Clarkson]

[ Personally, I would not use this kind of masking for anything flat or even curved. The only time I'd be looking for this kind of mask is for round things, which would be few and far between on my laser... I don't engrave spheres or eggs. Yet. hahaha
[/QUOTE]


This looks like a very interesting product.

Dee.......why do you say that you wouldn't use it for anything flat?

Personally, I'm fed up with the results that I get from masking with blue painters tape or Frog tape......I can't seem to get it to come off cleanly or not bleed under the tape. This is a metal sign that I was trying to make (not sure if it is big enough to see the bleeding)......but I finally gave up after about five tries.

Mike......can the liquid mask be vector cut? For example.....if you wanted to paint a border, could you vector cut the mask and then peel it off.....or do you have to raster it (which would take 20 times longer)?

Also, for small text, how easy is it to remove the inside of an "a" or "o" or "p"?

I think it may be worth a $23 investment to test it......has anyone tried it yet or is it too new?

[Martin Boekers]

[QUOTE=Steve Clarkson;1571906
Personally, I'm fed up with the results that I get from masking with blue painters tape or Frog tape......
I can't seem to get it to come off cleanly or not bleed under the tape. This is a
metal sign that I was trying to make (not sure if it is big enough to see the bleeding)......but I finally gave up after about five tries.
I think it may be worth a $23 investment to test it......has anyone tried it yet or is it too new?[/QUOTE]


I'm with you Steve, fills have just been a pain in the $%## (did I spell that right?)

I only do it because clients request it, I have tried most methods and then some.
Everything from standard masking, to Frog tape, wax and even toyed with Rain-X and waterproofing:D

I have watched almost every You Tube video (not just for fills but for welding
acrylic bases to awards) it all looks easy on the videos don't it!

The problem is weeding all the bit's and pieces from text as well as bleeding under esp M & W's. I probably will give this
a try sometime in the next month or so.

I usually keep up on researching these things, but this item (for lasering)
I haven't heard anything at all about yet.

It looks as though LaserBits just came out with it, but other manufactureres
have been making it for awhile. Just surprized it hasn't popped up before.
No reviews, articles or anything. :confused:

When I get a chance I will try it out and post when I get a chance.

Marty

[Dee Gallo]

Steve,

I'd have to try it to say whether or not it is worth it, but I believe it would be worth a try for the small bottle. I don't have bleeding issues because (I think) of my experience with airbrushing and painting in general, but if I suspected a possible leak, I'd use a wooden roller or fid to make sure there is good contact before painting. Sometimes just a fingernail is enough to tighten a seam. But I can see the attraction of liquid if you have trouble with this.

My concern is what will happen with pores in wood (residue) and if the dry masking will release as easily as they say, will small pieces (insides of letters) blow off or stick to a roller as it is painted? Testing is needed!

BTW- for future painting jobs, you might try several thin coats. I find most people apply paint too heavily which causes several problems:
1. bleeding under tape or into paper tape layers which smear when removed
2. paint drying at the edges into a thick layer which lifts off when tape is removed or requiring cutting to avoid ragged edges
3. paint dries unevenly from the top down making puckers in the surface
4. paint dries faster on top, when there is not good adhesion on the bottom so the paint peels off

As for removing small bits, you should get some plastic razor blades. They work well and don't scratch the surface. Get them at auto painting stores or Lee Valley. I also use a scratchboard tool for removing small bits, when water cannot be applied. Water removes transfer tape easily so just a finger rub will do it.

I'm thinking about adding a bottle of this stuff to my next Laserbits order just for R&D and general knowledge.

HTH, dee

[Mike Null]

Steve

As I look at your example you are trying to mask an unengraved area. I doubt that you're going to find any mask which will be perfect. That type of sign is usually screen printed in fairly high volume.

An easier and more foolproof option for low volume would be sublimation.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'll take Steve's example a couple more directions. One, it's the wrong tool for the job. A vinyl plotter with 2 choices, either being better, would be to cut the vinyl and apply it, or to cut a mask, apply that, and paint it. You're just trying to make the laser do something it's not good at doing.

That job, in vinyl, it about a 5-10 minute job, at most.

To take it in Mike's direction, you could dye sublimate that, print to complete in no more than 5 minutes.

I do paint mask all the time. Only difference is I cut it on the plotter, apply, and then paint. I can say that I have found that latex paints don't work worth a crap with masks. I have a job to do right now that's a lot of text, all about 3/4" tall text at the most, and I'll be masking it, then painting it, then removing the masking. I do it all the time.

[Mike Fruciano]

A little goes a long way with this liquid masking product. the small bottle will cover more than we say it will.

Be careful what you read on manufactures sites. Developing this material takes a lot of testing. There is a reason why this product has not come to market until now and its not easy to create.

We did a lot of testing with a large badge maker using engraveable plastic. The found clean up went to virtually nothing with LiquaMASK. It was especially helpful with red and yellow engraving plastic.

Another customer used it for cutting high volume of thin wood pieces for use in a wind bell they make. they brushed the mask on, cut the pieces and then peeled the mask off with no clean up needed at all.

I think in our industry time is money and its important to focus (no pun intended) on efficiency. Reducing labor is key to running a profitable business.

Mike-

[Dan Hintz]

Mike,

Would you mind putting in your sig that you're the rep/owner of Laserbits... just so there's no confusion?

[Michael Kowalczyk]

This stuff is marketed as a laser mask so it shouldn't be pvc based. It doesn't specifically say it isn't, but here is the description from their website.

I have nothing against LaserBits but this seems, for all intents and purposes, to be identical to their product but at less than 1/2 the price. I know that General Chemical private labels their products, I wonder if that's who is making the stuff for LaserBits?

Thanks Gary. Appreciate you looking into it further. Some people may be very new to lasers and will just try anything without thinking of the possible consequences that a laser may produce. Being green behind the ears is no excuse after the fact. That's one of the many benefits of this forum.

Thanks again and ...

[Larry Bratton]

Not liquid mask, but I have had good success in the past with a product called P-flex from Piedmont Plastics. It is a polyester film. I would be interested to try the liquid stuff from Laserbits also but I'll wait and let some of you give us a report on it. I don't have a lot of money to invest in R&D right now.

[Thomas Skrodzki]

Please share your results with various liquid mask products with those that new to lasering, such as me.

[Mike Null]

Thomas

Note that this thread is more than 4 years old. You might try doing a search for laser mask posts.

[Thomas Skrodzki]

I have made that observation. By now I guess people would be able to have economical and quality product figured out.......

[Bruce Page]

Has anyone tried this liquid mask on a cnc router?

[Bert Kemp]

So its been like 5 or 6 years and a few have said they were going to try this and the Gen Chem one and report back. I've read the entire post and don't see where anyone tried these 2 products. So has anyone????

[Glen Monaghan]

I picked up some of the laserbits stuff a good while back and used it a few times. Best use I had for it was when I engraved/cut 1/16" thick acrylic wedding invitations for my daughter and didn't have suitable tape to cover the substrate, so I flooded this stuff thinly across the surface. After removing from the laser, I peeled away the large parts and put the invites into a water bath to soak and later wash off the little pieces that would be a pain to weed. Generally, though, tape is much cheaper, faster (both to apply, since you have to wait for this stuff to dry, and to remove, because I don't usually engrave anywhere near as much text as was on the invites and consequently have much less to weed), and convenient (unless you are doing compound curve stuff, but even with something like a tool handle that I engrave and then color fill, I can usually smooth tape around the curves and get it wrinkle free). Nice idea, just not something that I happen to need, so the bottle I have is still more than half full and just sitting there...

[Bert Kemp]

Thanks for the reply, doesn't sound like its worth the money:(



I picked up some of the laserbits stuff a good while back and used it a few times. Best use I had for it was when I engraved/cut 1/16" thick acrylic wedding invitations for my daughter and didn't have suitable tape to cover the substrate, so I flooded this stuff thinly across the surface. After removing from the laser, I peeled away the large parts and put the invites into a water bath to soak and later wash off the little pieces that would be a pain to weed. Generally, though, tape is much cheaper, faster (both to apply, since you have to wait for this stuff to dry, and to remove, because I don't usually engrave anywhere near as much text as was on the invites and consequently have much less to weed), and convenient (unless you are doing compound curve stuff, but even with something like a tool handle that I engrave and then color fill, I can usually smooth tape around the curves and get it wrinkle free). Nice idea, just not something that I happen to need, so the bottle I have is still more than half full and just sitting there...