looking for THE best impact driver

[Nick Sorenson]

Yes... THE best! Not the one someone thinks is the best or has had the best experience with. I'm looking for a non subjective, non opinionated, 100% matter of fact THE best in the shootout of impact drivers.

Ok... I realize that's not possible. But I'd like to get opinions on what you think is the best impact driver. I've been using a dewalt 18V nicad drill for a while now and have been pretty happy with it but I think I'm ready to move into an impact for putting screws in guitars (delicate work).

I want to move on from the drill because it occasionally strips a screw or slips off the head and bang! nice phillips X into the perfect finish I just spent 10's of hours working on.

I've used a little Bosch 1/4 hex impact and liked it. I've read on other forums that they don't live long lives (Bosch) but that's just a few experiences. I'm curious what you guys have found.

Seems like the popular contenders have been Bosch, Makita, Milwaukee, Dewalt, Panasonic, and I'm sure I'm missing a few. And within all those brands lots of sub models.

What do you like?

[Tom Cornish]

I'm not sure that an impact driver would fix your issue. It sounds like you need to either get a new Phillips driver bit more often, or switch to a different type of screw that holds onto the driver better.

I love impact drivers and have owned 2 - a Makita 14.4V, and the Dewalt 18V lithium one. They are my go-to tool for anything larger than a 1" #6 screw, but for delicate things like pocket screws into Melamine I ended up actually going back to a conventional drill because I could "feel" it better to know when the screw was bottoming.

[Philip Rodriquez]

You are going about this all wrong... you should be looking for the best screws and pre-drilling your holes ;)!

Since you already have a DeWalt, why don't you just pick up the DeWalt impact driver? They take the same batteries!

[Derek Gilmer]

Have you tried switching to square drive screws? I feel like they are as superior to phillips screws as phillips screws are to slot headed screws.

[Mark Bolton]

I think Tom makes some good points. We have been using impacts for many years. We currently have several Makita NiMh 12v and 14.4v impacts in the shop as well as a bosch PS impact driver. In the field we are running Makita LXT Lion drivers that were part of a guys tool package we bought out when he got injured.

I like them all and I cant really tell you which one wold be "best". I will say that the Bosch has been great for us and we have had no problems with it. I fell into a deal with an additional charger and some batteries so now I have the impact, the adjustable right angle screwdriver, 3 chargers and about ten batteries.

The PS is a much slower RPM so it is actually nice for pocket screws though as Tom mentioned impacts will overdrive and spin-out screws in soft material like nothing. Also, a bigger impact in hard material will snap a screw off like nothing. This may be worse than your damaged finish to have a screw snapped in the body.

Only you know your work but I would think a combination of perhaps a small, slower speed, impact and a different bit/screw combination may be something to look at. Perhaps posi-drive phillips insted (with the little square at the center of the phillips). I can imagine depending on your application finding fasteners may be difficult or limited if you are using chrome oval heads or something for screws on the face (pick guard type things).

My only recommendation for delicate is the bosch "type" may be best. Several brands in the small 12v now but I would think a bigger impact may be tough.

Our small bosch will drive 3 1/2" screws very well, its just that the RPMs are slower so if your running a lot of screws the bigger impacts are better.

Mark

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Nick.

I am happy with my Mikita impact driver, and I would buy it again. It has lithium Ion batteries that seem to last forever(well almost).

However your problem is straight forward and solved thusly:

Drill a pilot hole.

Use square drive screws.

[John Coloccia]

What screws are you driving that you'd use an impact wrench on? The only thing I could even remotely think of are the neck screws for a bolt-on Tele or Strat. Anyhow, I use Wera screwdrivers almost exclusively now. With those, driving a couple of screws by hand is an absolute pleasure. They make bits too. They will not slip as long as you're half awake.

Impact drivers, even small ones, can put amazing amounts of torque on the screws. I would be very afraid of snapping the head off the screw instantly when it hits the mounting plate (assuming that's what you're using it for). You would need to be extremely careful. Just an FYI.

[Nick Sorenson]

You are going about this all wrong... you should be looking for the best screws and pre-drilling your holes ;)!

Since you already have a DeWalt, why don't you just pick up the DeWalt impact driver? They take the same batteries!


Have you tried switching to square drive screws? I feel like they are as superior to phillips screws as phillips screws are to slot headed screws.


Hi Nick.

I am happy with my Mikita impact driver, and I would buy it again. It has lithium Ion batteries that seem to last forever(well almost).

However your problem is straight forward and solved thusly:

Drill a pilot hole.

Use square drive screws.

Yes I do pre-drill the holes (neck screws). Actually I even pretap them with the piece unmounted. Still there's the possibility of slipping off. I use phillips screws. Not much of an option there unfortunately. Pretty much phillips is requirement based on the style of guitars I'm building. It wouldn't look right with a modern Allen, Torx, Square etc. I order my screws from Fastenall. Not sure of the quality but they are stainless and seem to be of very good quality.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Impact drivers, even small ones, can put amazing amounts of torque on the screws. I would be very afraid of snapping the head off the screw instantly when it hits the mounting plate (assuming that's what you're using it for). You would need to be extremely careful. Just an FYI.

+1 on that. I've snapped screws with my Crapsman impact. If you've ever tried to extract a hardened screw from a hole that you can't relocate, you'll never want to do it again.

If you want the BEST, Festool comes to mind immediately.

[John Coloccia]

Forgot to mention. I have the Makita that came in this kit:

http://makita.com/en-us/Modules/Tools/ToolDetails.aspx?ID=24067

From the ones I've used, this one seems to have the nicest trigger, IMHO. Still, it will generate incredible force if you're not careful.

[Nick Sorenson]

....
Impact drivers, even small ones, can put amazing amounts of torque on the screws. I would be very afraid of snapping the head off the screw instantly when it hits the mounting plate ....

That is one thing I was wondering. I've used one but only once for basic drywall screw assembly of jigs etc.

[Nick Sorenson]

.... If you've ever tried to extract a hardened screw from a hole that you can't relocate, you'll never want to do it again.



You kid not! There have been a few batches (maybe still) of tuning keys that were supplied with screws that like to snap off. The worst part is that these aren't cheap keys... but yes every time I've had to dig one of those out of a guitar's peghead I get pretty upset with the manufacturer for supplying the low quality screws. The economy tuning keys have better screws! Shouldn't be that way but it seems like quality isn't always something that automatically comes with a name anymore.

[John Coloccia]

Were they Gotoh? I've only had two snap in my life, and they were both from the same package of Gotoh tuners. I must have gotten a bad batch. Fortunately, mine snapped with enough left over that vise grips got them out.

[Jon McElwain]

I've got both a Makita 14.4 v and Dewalt 18v impact drivers. I could recommend either, but I do tend to use the Makita more because it is plenty strong for most tasks and it is much lighter.

If you do get an impact driver of any type, be sure to PRACTICE before doing any sort of critical work. It took me a long time to really get comfortable with them as they will keep on driving a screw with virtually no change in the feel of the driving force. A drill will drive, but when the head of a the screw hits the wood, you feel some torque in your wrist and you know that the screw is seated. With an impact driver, no torque is felt, so you have to watch for the head of the screw to be seated. You can drive a screw into a 4x4 and it will just keep going until the head of the screw is so buried that the driver can no longer reach the head of the screw. And it doesn't feel any different in your wrist than when the screw was just being seated.

So like I said, drive 50 screws or so of various types and in various materials to really get a good feel for the tool before putting it to the test on your finished work.

[Mark Bolton]

Yes I do pre-drill the holes (neck screws). Actually I even pretap them with the piece unmounted. Still there's the possibility of slipping off. I use phillips screws. Not much of an option there unfortunately. Pretty much phillips is requirement based on the style of guitars I'm building. It wouldn't look right with a modern Allen, Torx, Square etc. I order my screws from Fastenall. Not sure of the quality but they are stainless and seem to be of very good quality.

I think a small to medium sized impact would be perfect if your pre-drilling and even pre-tapping. We run impacts almost exclusively and once you get the knack of timing they are really no big deal. If your not trying to run a big screw without pre-drilling the head snapping is really a non issue IMO. Not having to work so hard keeping the bit engaged with the screw makes life a lot easier. Now when we go on a job and have to pull screws someone else ran, just looking at them I remember when we had non-impact drill/driver and you can see the phillips cam'd over where the bit jumped repeatedly in the fastener and whoever just held the trigger on and shoved harder. Eventually they just bore the phillips right out of the screw.

I can honestly say that with an impact driver I simply cant remember the last time I had a phillips, or any other style head for that matter, jump the bit out of the screw. It just doesnt happen. We are pretty diligent about matching bit to fastener which helps a lot even with different #2 bits/fasteners.

We are actually assembling shop-built window casings right now with poplar and walnut parts and using the Bosch's for all of it. I love it because its small, fits in my apron, light, has a light.

Mark

[John Coloccia]

re: heads snapping off

On a bolt-on guitar, there is a metal plate between the screws and the wood (typically driving into hard maple). In wood, the screws will just sort-of seat into the wood if you go too far. With the metal plate, once the screws hit the metal the only things that can happen with more torque is for the head to start twisting off, or even worse the hole in the neck getting buggered up. If it were just going into wood like typical woodworking, the impact is a slam dunk.

FWIW, Nick, even if you don't end up using it on the guitars, I wouldn't be without that little Makita kit that I posted. The size and weight of the drill and driver are absolutely perfect work in the shop. I have a shop full of a zillion jigs too! I still have my big Hitachi drill that it replaced (which I love, by the way), but it sits in a corner and hasn't been touched once since I picked up that kit.

[Chris Friesen]

If you're doing delicate work, you might consider one with a digital clutch, or one that will let you advance a quarter turn at a time.

Also, you said you can't use square drive or torx....what about posidriv? Unless you look closely it'll look like a philips.

[Nick Sorenson]

Were they Gotoh? I've only had two snap in my life, and they were both from the same package of Gotoh tuners. I must have gotten a bad batch. Fortunately, mine snapped with enough left over that vise grips got them out.

Yes indeed. I have talked with a couple other luthiers who've had the same thing happen around the same time. Now we're pretty slow and careful with those screws just incase.

I'm just getting into a new batch but I'm sure I've got the old screws in my box still. So I guess I'll be surprised once in a while.

[Chris Tsutsui]

Black Friday Home depot sold the 18V LXT Makita drill and driver set for $199 with a free flash light. I used the driver and it's a good combo.

You could use a 10% coupon if you have it as well.

I went to HD, late in the day and for some odd reason there weren't any left. Then I got word that somebody had bought all of them using their discount along with the $199 price just to resell them on Craigslist.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/2087132458.html

Well enough of my vent...

If I was doing delicate work I'd just use the clutch on a drill. And the top of the line drills with brushless motors for consistency... festool comes to mind. :)

[Nick Sorenson]

If you're doing delicate work, you might consider one with a digital clutch, or one that will let you advance a quarter turn at a time.

Also, you said you can't use square drive or torx....what about posidriv? Unless you look closely it'll look like a philips.

Posidriv might be a good option. I've seen/used them before working on decking etc. with my dad, but never thought about that for guitars. Hmmm good idea.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

[QUOTE=John Coloccia;1571111]Were they Gotoh? QUOTE]

I don't want to bash them, since they make good tuners, but they sure can't make a good screw.:mad: I've stripped the heads a few times, AND they only give you 1 per tuner. It wouldn't be that bad if they included some spares to strip out.....:) Must have been the same batch, I haven't done that in a little while.

[Jon McElwain]

Then I got word that somebody had bought all of them using their discount along with the $199 price just to resell them on Craigslist.

Yeah, I've been seeing a lot of that around here. Every time the $25 Rigid Shop vac sale comes around, there is another batch of $50 vacs for sale on CL. Saw a post the other day that said they only had 12 left! :eek:

[John Coloccia]

[QUOTE=John Coloccia;1571111]Were they Gotoh? QUOTE]

I don't want to bash them, since they make good tuners, but they sure can't make a good screw.:mad: I've stripped the heads a few times, AND they only give you 1 per tuner. It wouldn't be that bad if they included some spares to strip out.....:) Must have been the same batch, I haven't done that in a little while.

That's actually how I ended up with my little kit of Schaeller hardware. I needed to replace the screws I snapped and just snatched up the kit StewMac sells. I LOVE that little kit.

[Mark Bolton]

re: heads snapping off

On a bolt-on guitar, there is a metal plate between the screws and the wood (typically driving into hard maple).

Very familiar with the application. Played since my teens and while I've never built one I have taken several apart and back together again. We use very similar plates and hardwood quite a bit though not with stainless fasteners. Being a bit more brittle (stainless) would be a slight concern but still a non issue for an impact. While not in hard wood, but using stainless and plates I have literally run thousands of #14 x 2" pan head stainless sheet metal screws through steel reinforcing plates into SYP using a #3 Phillips bit. Never cam'd a single one and have never had a head snap off.

The posi-drive was my first thought but don't know about availability. We too but most of our fasteners from fastenal and they usually have everything.

Mark

[John Coloccia]

Posidriv would be nice if you can get them without the dorky little engraved lines on the head. Is that standard or do mine just all happen to have that on them? He could even include a Posidriv driver with the guitar if he wanted to.

Anyhow, I didn't mean to imply that it was an impossible task to use the driver, but only that he needs to be very careful because they can apply immense amounts of torque with very little feedback. It takes getting used to. I use drills and drivers all the time to drive hardware on guitars, but I usually stop shy of the surface and drive them home by hand. It was really apparent to me just this weekend. I had to take apart an elliptical machine and move it up to my second floor. I used the Makita driver to take it apart, and then put it back together with the idea that the driver would just snug everything up and I'd torque it by hand. Even feathering the trigger, I applied WAY more torque to it than I intended to. I was very surprised as I though I'd really gotten accustomed to the driver, but it turns out I've got a ways to go.

[Richard McComas]

I have a lot of experience with Makita, Dewalt and Panasonic. All in the 12 volt models. I believe the 12 volt impacts have plenty of power for most uses with the exception of really heavy duty applications like screwing down deck on a regularly.

I use Makita and Dewalt at work and the Panasonic in my shop. I like the Panasonic the best and started taking it to work with me. The batteries in the Panasonic work well and have a good run time. The Panasonic is the only impact with a clutch (that I know of). Instead of my listing the all the features of the Panasonic you can read them at the link below. Hand down I like the Panasonic.

http://impactwrench.jointmyblog.com/panasonic/panasonic-ey7202gqw-12-volt-nimh-cordless-impact-driver/

[Dewayne Reding]

I believe the Snap-On we use to remove military truck wheels at work is good for about 650 ft/lbs. Would that be strong enough for you?

[Jack Pinkham]

When I purchased my Bosch a couple of weeks ago, I looked on Amazon. They had good prices, but they weren't selling the newest models. After checking the Bosch web site, I ordered a new model PS41-2A from Savannah Tool House. Free shipping and good price.

[Nick Sorenson]

I believe the Snap-On we use to remove military truck wheels at work is good for about 650 ft/lbs. Would that be strong enough for you?

Those impact wrenches are REALLY cool too. But we're talking tiny little 1/4" hex impact drivers for driving screws. They're rated in inch pounds and are probably in the 100 ft/lbs range at the upper end.

A friend says the DeWalt 18V Impact Wrench works as well as his air tools and is quiet comparatively. In the air impact department, Ingersol Rand Professional for me. I've got that already figured out after actually trying a bunch:) I'm not even considering an electric at this point with how well the Ingersol performs.

[Greg Hawthorne]

http://www.hilti.com/holcom/page/module/product/prca_catnavigation.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-10175

Get one of each, depending on the torque required!

[Jay Allen]

My "main" impact drivers are both Makita. I have had the blue one for over 5 years, on the original batteries. I have only had the white one for about 2 years. Performance-wise, you cannot tell them apart. I use one for square drive screws and the other for the Posi-Drives in the Euro hardware (hinge plates drawer guides, etc).
I have a Bosch that is pretty much used exclusively for pocket screws. It turns a lot slower in "free" (non impacting) mode.
I absolutely could not due with-out an impact driver. I haven't driven a wood screw with a regular drill in years. I do however use a Bosch PS20 for hardware that requires machine screws.

[Jeff Todd]

for the type of work I do (construction) I have the bosch combo with Bluecore batts. everyone loves them most of the subs love them too. they are always telling me how much they hate there drills... any brand really Milwaukee makita, ridgid they hate them all.. they are usually lithium ion batts and they just hate them.. my drills take a beating and they are the most reliable drills we have.. we also use. ridgid dewalt craftsman and pc.

j

[hank dekeyser]

I've been wailing on my Makita daily for a few years now - no troubles, except I need to remember it WILL snap off screws in a heartbeat. BTW, I have the OLD pod style so yes its been a few years, I have 3 of them and beat them silly. Also got a mechanic bud that has the Snap-on and Ingersol cordless guns. Hardly ever gets out the airhose anymore - SWEEEET