Vermiculite?

[Doug Carpenter]

So I hate to be the victim of drive by media nonsense but here goes.

This morning my homepage has an article on the deadly ritual of getting your christmas decorations down from the attic.

I have a ranch house built in the late fifties. Most of my attic was insulated with what I describe as scardboard dust. It is really nasty stuff. I have removed 80% of when ever I had a slow schedule and the desire. I would just shovel it out and shopvac the bays clean and then reinsulate.

The part I am worried about is the area above the garage. My shop. That is vermiculite. For the most part it is under the plywood decking of the attic but I have encountered it many time over the last 11 years that I have owned this house. Not to mention the fact that we store tons of stuff in the attic. it is 1900 square feet of easily accessed space.

It is really dusty up there mostly (I hope) from the cardboard dust insulation but I worry that my family has been exposed to harmfull toxins.

This morning I am sure that it is too late for me. I have been exposed many times while remodeling this house.

The question becomes, "what would you do"?

The kids enjoy going up there and going though things. The cat dashes up there everytime the ladder is open and probrably get covered in it and then comes down and rubs himself all over us.

Certainly I can stop the kids but it isn't practical to expect it can sit there for years undisturbed.

If I have it tested and it has no asbestos I would feel better but if is has asbestos then it becomes a two part problem. One I can't afford to have it removed by some eco friendly costly pro. And I would have to disclose it to potential buyers.

To make matters worse I have developed asthma in the last year. I went to see an allergist / asthma specialist and found out I am alergic to dust mites. He attributes the breathing trouble to the allergy but this morning I am in a panic that maybe when you add ten years of living here to my twenty years of remodeling professionally you get a different problem alltogether.

[Rick Moyer]

If you just want to cover it up better to seal it out, how about thin plastic sheeting and then staple cheap paneling on the walls and floors? Shouldn't cost too much.
OTOH "You" have to weigh the cost vs. consequences; but "I" would probably just isolate it better.

[Dick Strauss]

Doug,
I'm not an expert but have done some reading on the subject...

According to Wikipedia, possibly 80% of the vermiculite mined in the world during the 50's came from the Libbey, Montana mine that is now the site of an EPA superfund cleanup. So, I would say your chances are pretty high of asbestos contamination... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermiculite

The EPA recommends you prevent disturbances to the material... http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/help.html (http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/help.html)

I had two initial reactions on this one...
1) have someone seal it so it isn't loose (with insulating foam??)
2)have it completely removed

After reading more, I think I'd try to isolate it to prevent it from being disturbed.

If you have the attic (and walls??) sealed with foam, you'll still have an issue when you open the walls to add an outlet or open the ceiling to add a light. However, it will eliminate the tracking and resulting airborn exposure that is the most dangerous.

If you decide to remove it yourself from the attic spaces, use at least an N95 mask for your protection. Try to seal the area the best you can and use a HEPA filter equipped shopvac from cleanup. If you want to remove it from the walls, you'll need to poke at least two holes in the walls (I'd do it from the outside if possible). I'd remove the vermiculite from the bottom hole and allow air in from the top.

Take care,
Dick

[Dan Hintz]

Interesting read about Verm and Abestos...
http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/verm.html

[Charles Lent]

What you are calling cardboard dust was newspapers before it was made into insulation. They add a chemical to it as a preservative/vermin preventive during the grinding process and I don't know what that chemical is, but was told that it is boric acid salts.

Vermiculite is expanded mica, a natural mineral product. A steam process puffs it up into the soft particles that make good insulation, much like the process for making puffed cereal. Clear mica was once used as viewing windows in coal and wood stoves because of it's high temperature tolerance. It is a very stable inert mineral.

Both insulations are very dusty if they are disturbed, but have fairly high R values for insulating quality. My family has lived in homes that have had both types of insulation and experienced no problems from them as long as they are isolated from direct family contact. If you are installing or removing them you should wear a good mask and eye protection and keep the dust isolated from the living areas.

Charley

[Kent Parker]

Doug,

Thanks for the heads up. I have a 1950's home that has Vermiculite for ceiling insulation. Didn't really know the full potential of the stuff until your post. Yowzaa! I've a much better understanding of why I cough when I return from the attic. After the first time I've taken to wearing a resperator. Now I'm thinking its gotta go. A bit of research found this site.

http://www.scn.org/~bh162/asbestos2.html

My understanding is that removal by a "professional" is very costly and your home is treated like a HAZMAT site. Could not easily find any removal business in Napa.

I'm thinking my 2 hp Delta dust collector with washable Hepa canister on top and about 40' to 60' of 5" hose should suck out the "V" in a day. :D

Jeezz...its always something....

Cheers,

KP