kitchen and bath cabinets

[Stephen Sebed]

I'm redoing my kitchen and bathroom cabinets in oak. What finish would you recommend for this application? I'm thinking poly. Also, I would like to get a spray system. What type would you recommend? Should I get an air compressor and sprayer or would a stand alone sprayer system work better? Then there's hvlp sprayers, different tip sizes and operating pressures? Can you guys help make sense of it all?

Thanks,
Sven

[Zahid Naqvi]

I'm not an expert on finishing by any means, but I would not recommend using poly on kitchen cabinets. Just a personal preference. I don't like the look of Poly (looks plasticky to me). Besides kitchen cabinets do not take a beating like a table top or floors(for which poly is more appropriate). If I were you I'd use something like shellac, much more serviceable, preserves the wood feel/texture, and the current trend seems to incline towards a "natural" looking finish (just an observation based on looking at new construction). Or use the witches brew, which is my second favorite topcoat. Both can be easily applied using a pad and/or rags, one of those fool proof topcoats.

[Scott Holmes]

If you are looking for brand names Waterlox Original.

Contrary to what many think... Spar and marine varnishes are NOT as waterproof as interior finishes.

Pre finish if you can. A "newbee" spraying varnish in a bathroom or kitchen is a bad idea. You should not "learn" to spray on a project like this. Overspray will get on everything not covered and well protected.

[Stephen Sebed]

I'm not a newbee to spraying, I did a fair amount of spraying lacquer 4-5 yrs ago and I was good at spraying. What I'm not sure about is spraying anything other than lacquer! I used a siphon gun back then, anything else is unknown to me. All spraying will be done in my garage or outside, I know how bad overspray can be.

I've never understood the adversity to poly. When applied properly you can't tell the difference between poly, lacquer, and shellac. Poly does tend to be more shiny than other finishes. I know cabinets don't take a beating like floors and table tops but they do show wear around the handles pretty quick! I don't think shellac would hold up very well to the wear or the occasional splash of water. Lacquer could probably handle the wear but I don't think it handles splashes of water very well either.

What is waterlox? I looked it up quickly and it appears to be a tung oil based finish. Is it a wipe-on finish? how many coats does it require?

I could be wrong here but I wouldn't trust shellac in the bathroom or kitchen. Lacquer, poly, or maybe waterlox seem like better choices. Remind me again, what is witches brew? It sounds familiar.

Thanks again,
Sven

[Zahid Naqvi]

"witches brew" it is a mixture of 1/3 BLO, 1/3 Naptha and 1/3 Poly. I have used Tung oil instead of BLO and MS instead of Naphtha at times. You can wipe this on with a rag and build coats, no brush marks etc to worry about and you end up with a barely visible (very low shine) finish despite having poly in the mix. you may want to try this on some scratch stock first.

[Matt Meiser]

A kitchen is a very harsh environment. Surfaces are subject to daily use and regular cleaning. I wouldn't use shellac as a topcoat for the reasons you mentioned. I'd use lacquer or a water-based lacquer or varnish like Target EM6000 or EM2000. I used 6000 on a kitchen I finished a year ago and its holding up nicely. 2000 had just come out and seeing how it looks, that's what I'd use now. Spraying WB products shouldn't be much of a learning curve if any if you have experience with lacquer.

Wiping finish on a kitchen's worth of project would be a very time consuming project! Speaking from experience there. I used a wipe-on product for coloring the wood--just one coat was required. It took a lot more time to wipe a coat than spray a coat of the subsequent products. I can't imagine applying 5-6 coats of wipe-on finish on a kitchen. Not to mention the mountain of highly flammable rags!

I wouldn't spray poly for the simple reason that you'd have a relatively slow drying sticky mess from the overspray.

[Scott Holmes]

I agree with Matt. Using a waterborne finish like Targets' EM 6000 will be better than the oil based Waterlox as far as overspray mess.

However, Matt, EM6000 is NOT varnish it is a water-borne acrylic. Acrylics are not as durable as a phenolic resin tung oil varnish.

[Matt Meiser]

I'm just going by what the manufacturer calls the products--EM6000 is WB lacquer and EM2000 is WB varnish. I realize that those names are based on what the products act like as opposed to what's actually in them but didn't want to confuse the issue.

EM6000 and its predecessors USL and PSL have proven pretty durable in practice. A number of people here have used them on kitchens with good long-term results.

[Stephen Sebed]

What is em6000 or em2000 like compared to Deft lacquer in application characteristics and durability? If lacquer will hold up well enough it might be the easiest for me to use. Either way I still need to get a spray setup.

[Matt Meiser]

I've never sprayed Deft but if you search through the archives here you'll find many discussions on EM6000/USL/PSL in kitchen applications. A friend of mine turned me on to EM2000 which he just used on his own high-end kitchen. What I like about it is that it imparts an oil-like color on the wood. On some hard maple test boards it matches the oil-based wipe on finish I used on several furniture pieces exactly.

A couple of us have done non-scientific tests on EM6000. I poured a puddle of wine on a properly cured piece and left it until it dried with no damage. Someone else did testing with Windex. IIRC on a freshly sprayed piece it did some damage but after proper curing it didn't do anything.

Target Coatings has a forum where you can probably get better detailed answers to any questions specific to their products.

[Larry Fox]

I would not use EM6000 in a bathroom setting -- well, it is actually more correct to say I would not do it AGAIN. I finished a floor-to-ceiling walnut cabinet for my master bath with EM6000 and it failed pretty miserably above about shoulder level where steam from the shower tends to collect. I ended up stripping the entire thing and refinishing with Target conversion varnish (EM2000 I believe the number is). I finished my kitchen a few years ago with the conversion varnish and it has held up extremely well.

Also, I agree with others - prefinish.

[Matt Meiser]

Now that I think about it, my bathroom cabinetry was all done with Minwax Polycrylic on the recommendation of a long-time member here who runs a commercial shop and uses that on all his bathroom cabinetry. They are all holding up very nicely after 2-4 years. But I'd probably do EM2000 today.

[Conrad Fiore]

Larry,
The Target conversion varnish is EM8000cv. The EM2000 is their hybrid varnish.

[Larry Fox]

Larry,
The Target conversion varnish is EM8000cv. The EM2000 is their hybrid varnish.


Thanks Conrad. Just to clear up any ambiguity that might be in my post since I got the numbers wrong - I used EM8000cv.