Stanley Baily #7 Problem

[David Dalzell]

I bought this Stanley Baily #7 about one year ago on E-Bay. I never could get it to work. I put it aside until now. This is what I have found.

As for the plane - There are no patent dates behind the frog. The knob is the high style with the supporting ring. There is no frog screw adjustment from the back. The levercap has the straight keyhole, not the kidney shape. The cutting iron is stamped "Victory made in USA" (not a Stanley blade?). The plane has a corrugated sole. So what version, what year, I don't know.

The problem - For the iron to reach cutting position, with the chipbreaker set about 1/32 back from the edge of the iron (in other words a correct blade/chip breaker setup), I have to retract the brass adjustment knob all the way out. Then there is nothing left to adjust and it is not actually cutting yet. However if I set the chipbreaker about 1/4" back from the edge of the cutting iron, then I have adequate adjustment to make shavings. And it actually makes fairly nice shavings. Between .002 and .005 thick, depending on my adjustment. However due to the distance between the chip breaker edge and the iron edge ( 1/4") I get some slight chatter (working on Walnut).

Assumption - Since the chipbreaker adjustment slot determines the location of chip breaker/iron location at the mouth, then the chip breaker is at fault here. i.e. the adjustment slot is too close to the edge of the chip breaker. (By the way I don't know if the chip breaker is a Stanley since there are no markings on it.)

Questions - Are my assumptions correct?
Should I replace the Chip breaker with a Hock, L-N, Veritas chipbreaker?
Should I replace the chip breaker and Blade?
Am I ignorant and should do something elsa entirally? ( I ama bad speller)

Thanks for any help, suggestions, and advice.

[Pedro Reyes]

Looks to me like a Type 17 "kludged" with other parts. Looking at the "Victory" stamp on your iron, I would guess that the Iron/chipbreaker combo came from another plane.

I would get another set (iron+chipbreaker) I like Hock+LN respectively, but you could make it work with just another chipbreaker.

you're zpelling is marbelous.

peace

/p

[Tony Shea]

Just a stab in the dark here but I would guess that the chipbreaker is not the original and is causing misplacement issues due to its slot cut for the depth adjuster tit (nice technical name there). But I am by no means studied up on these planes as others around here are. I;m sure you'll get a positive answer soon. But if it is the chipbreaker then I would suggest buying the IBC/Rob Cosman chipbreaker/blade combo. I personally have never used it but have heard great things about it in a Stanley.

I have bought a new LN iron for a Stanley/Bailey #7 I picked up and do like the new blade. The trouble comes with it's adjustment as well. It really doesn't feel good in it's range of adjustment and this is due to the extra thickness of the LN blade. It still works once it's set for a cut but I can never really get it to take a whispy shaving as I'd like due to the finicky adjustment. It seems to me that the IBC chipbreaker/blade combo would solve this dilema.

But I really do not have to worry about this too much anymore as this past Wednesday I drove over to Lie Nielsen and bought myself their #7, not to brag or anything but that thing makes my Stanley feel like a toy.

[David Dalzell]

Well I would love to have a L-N #7 but the price is beyound me.

[Sam Takeuchi]

It looks like leading edge of the cap iron was heavily worked on. I'm assuming it was ground short during that time. It doesn't look like it is square nor consistent, I would throw away that cap iron unless you want to recycle that piece of steel for something else.

Cap iron can be a tricky thing as critical dimension (distance between leading edge to the rectangular hole) can be different between manufacturers and even within the same manufacturer. Hock Tool's 2-3/8" replacement cap iron has 3.75" as their dimension, and Lie-Nielsen cap iron is 3.82", cap iron with critical dimension around these number should fit pretty good number of widely circulated vintage planes. There is no guarantee, though. If you want to make sure, you can make a cardboard dummy cap iron to check for size as well as adjuster functionality and if your plane needs a custom sized cap iron, you can order one or make one yourself, too.

[Jonathan McCullough]

If you've got a drill and a small file I'll bet you could create an appropriately-sized aperture about 1/4" backwards on the chip breaker. It doesn't seem to be original to the plane, the plane it belongs to is long gone, and if you boff it, you'll just need an appropriate chip breaker like you did in the first place. The big thick new ones are really nice but not entirely necessary.

[Trevor Walsh]

I had the same problem with a #7 type 13, get a new chip breaker, or spring for an iron/breaker combo, it'll be worth it.

[David Dalzell]

I just checked the squareness of the iron, chip breaker, and cap iron. Iron is square. Chip breaker is slightly off square. I can fix this. The chip breaker is very off square. It looks like I will replace both the iron plus the chip breaker. Now I just have to decide which of the many brands to buy.

[Robert Culver]

Personaly I would go with the hock.....

[mike v flaim]

+1 on the Hock. I have one on my No 8 and it made a world of difference. Pick up the chip breaker as well if you can afford it. Worth every penny.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on the Hock brand. You may find it a bit tight in the mouth. If you have to open the mouth, check to see if the frog will go toward the back enough to let you remove it from the back of the mouth instead of the front.

A lot of good comments here. I think the Victory stamp was used by Stanley, but I am not sure. It could be a replacement blade.

Your chip breaker does look to have been worked over by someone with a heavy hand.

Sam Takeuchi mentioned the measurements from the edge of the cap iron to the edge of the engagement hole. I think that will tell you very quickly if this is where your problem lies.

I posted a chart a long time ago, here it is again:

168770

jtk

[Joel Goodman]

I would try a different chipbreaker as a start -- I'm sure one the creekers here would sell you one for a song. Or if not I would get the Hock chipbreaker as they fit the Stanleys while the LN chipbreaker is designed for their planes. Craftsman Studio has the Hock chipbreaker on sale for $25 with free shipping if you go that route. If you want a replacement iron you have a lot of good choices and need to decide if you want the slightly thicker Hock, LV or LN "Stanley replacement" or go with an even thicker iron that will probably require that you file the mouth with an auger file. Past a point these increase backlash and at a certain point the depth adjuster will not function well. That said I have a #7 with a Ray Isles carbon steel iron from TWW (with a stock chipbreaker) that is approx 1/8th and love it. If it were me I'd start with the chipbreaker and try to get the plane working well before investing in a new iron.

[Sam Takeuchi]

I think if dimension isn't an issue, Hock, Lie-Nielsen or Clifton 2 piece would do fine. With replacement blades, you have a wider choice;Hock A2 and O1, LN A2 (I don't think they have replacement O1 blade yet), LV A2 and O1, very awesome Tsunesaburo Blue steel laminated blade and I'm sure a couple more of them. These blades should fit through the mouth without filing it open or very minimal filing to get enough opening. There are really thick blades out there, but they require varying degree of modification i.e., metal work. I don't personally think using those 1/8" blades provide real world difference on wood. I know that they give different feed back than thinner replacement blades, but how that translates on the planed surface, I haven't yet to see definite evidence of benefit. I know thicker blade can withstand chatter better, but commercially available quality replacement blades are thick enough to do the same.

I feel that if you have a quality replacement blade from Hock, LN, LV coupled with good replacement cap iron, your plane is as good as it can go in terms of upgrade. If replacement blade and cap iron are suffering in well tuned plane, that's already pushing the design limitation of the plane itself, I don't think installing thicker blade is the answer to overcoming that issue.

Depending on your intended use, you can buy used stock cap iron for a couple of dollars and spend the rest of money on a good replacement blade. If you are planning to use your No 7 for dimensioning and generally rougher work, you surely don't need a good replacement cap iron. On the other hand, if you intend to use your No 7 to prep board prior to smoothing, it might be a good idea to have quality blade and cap iron in order to achieve quality surface.

[Johnny Kleso]

I would buy a new Stanley Blade and Chipbreaker (Cap Iron) for $17.50 and tune the rest of the plane before spending for money for a aftermarket..

If you love the plane then go for the aftermarket setup

http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/12-325-1-02-0c-02.html

PS: check that frog is flush woth back of mouth..
Check my tune up page
http://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes101/tuneup/tuneup.htm

[Joel Goodman]

I would buy a new Stanley Blade and Chipbreaker (Cap Iron) for $17.50 and tune the rest of the plane before spending for money for a aftermarket..

If you love the plane then go for the aftermarket setup

http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/12-325-1-02-0c-02.html

PS: check that frog is flush woth back of mouth..
Check my tune up page
http://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes101/tuneup/tuneup.htm

Good advice. Or if your iron is OK you can get the cap iron and screw for a total of $6. If you go this route you'll need to tune up the cap iron (chipbreaker) per Johnny's website so that it doesn't clog up.

[Johnny Kleso]

Your blade and cap iron look like toast in the pic to me :)

If you dont own a bench grinder your best bet IMHO is to by new...

I'm guessing the cap iron is from a 1/2 wood and metal type plane that has a different cap iron lenght than the all metal planes

[David Dalzell]

Since this seem to be a Franken plane I have decided to try to fix it on the cheap. The body is a Type 16, based on physical features of the casting. The frog is a who knows. There are no markings on it. The frog is of the older style with the small (1") diameter brass knob. So it predates the Type 16 body. The iron is marked "Victory Made in USA" and may be Stanley. The chipbreaker is too short (thus my original problems) to reach the edge of the cutting iron. The lever cap has the keyhole, not the kidney shape, so it predates the Type 16 but may be compatible with the frog.

So my cheap fix is I ordered the iron/chip breaker set from Stanley. ($17.50) If this works, then fine; if not then I am not out very much $. I always have the option, if this works out, of upgrading iron and chip breaker at some future date.

[David Dalzell]

Well I finally received the chip breaker plus iron from Stanley. I checked the difference between the new and the old chipbreaker. The chip breaker adjustment slots are located at different positions relative to the front of the chipbreaker. The new chipbreaker is correct and allows full adjustment of the iron. The old (original) chipbreaker did not allow the iron to adjust enough forward to cut wood. Everything works great with the old iron and the new chipbreaker. So this has solved the problem. I finally have a functioning jointer Stanley Baily #7. Now - I also have a new iron from Stanley "Made in England". It came with the iron+chipbreaker set. This iron took quite a lot of fettling to get it to work. The back (face?) was badly out of flat. It took a long time to flatten it. Finally it was done, and tried out. So now i have a #7 with two good irons.

[Trevor Walsh]

Nicely done, I'm sure you're going to love it.

[James Scheffler]

Now - I also have a new iron from Stanley "Made in England". It came with the iron+chipbreaker set. This iron took quite a lot of fettling to get it to work. The back (face?) was badly out of flat. It took a long time to flatten it. Finally it was done, and tried out. So now i have a #7 with two good irons.

You might find that the steel in the old blade is better than the new Stanley blade. Maybe you could report back after you have used both and you know which one stays sharp longer....

Jim S.

[Jim Koepke]

Glad to hear this worked out, someone may have put your plane together with a chip breaker from another brand of plane.

Are the frog and base drilled and tapped for the screws to use the frog adjustment?

None of your pictures show that area.

Those parts are fairly easy to come by if your plane can use them.

jtk