Some good news for the economy

[Dave Lehnert]

I was reading a story today about LL Bean.

First, I did not know they make some of the items they sell. The Waterproff boot they cut and sew the leather tops. Popular with college students they have tripled their 2nd shift workforce to keep up with the 500 pairs a day being made. :)
The factory is running at its highest rate in 15 years. and are filling 185,000 orders a day:eek:

I just think this is great news to hear.

[Craig D Peltier]

I was reading a story today about LL Bean.

First, I did not know they make some of the items they sell. The Waterproff boot they cut and sew the leather tops. Popular with college students they have tripled their 2nd shift workforce to keep up with the 500 pairs a day being made. :)
The factory is running at its highest rate in 15 years. and are filling 185,000 orders a day:eek:

I just think this is great news to hear.

When we would go hunting in Maine the guide ( my dads friend) knew the owner of the company. He used to give him test items to use for the hunting season and report back to him. Pretty cool company.I have been to the one in Freeport ME many o times.

[Brian Elfert]

It is great that we manufacture things in the USA, but is it a good liveable wage? Many manufacturing plants, especially food, pay maybe $10 an hour and employ mostly recent immigrants.

The kinds of manufacturing we need are the good jobs like making cars that pay upwards of $20 an hour. Regardless, it is better to have stuff made in the USA than in some 3rd world country.

[Scott Shepherd]

The kinds of manufacturing we need are the good jobs like making cars that pay upwards of $20 an hour. Regardless, it is better to have stuff made in the USA than in some 3rd world country.

Not hardly. Way more than $20 per hour being made in the automotive industry. That's part of what crippled the automotive industry. They were making $20 per hour 20 years ago.

Let's get real on that, you talk about making a "livable wage". What's that mean? That you can afford to buy one of those cars be made by those high wage earners for $45,000 for a simple car or truck?

Pricing is so out of wack, a single person can't hardly buy their own home or even a new car these days. How's a single person with one income supposed to be able to afford a house? Much less a house AND a car?

You used to be able to do that, no problem.

[Dan Karachio]

I have bought many shirts from LL Bean but I can't imagine they make those too? Do they? If so, good for them.

Scott, with all due respect, there are so many factors with the US auto companies that to blame it solely on blue collar wages is too simplistic. I suppose it feels good to blame someone, especially a high paid blue collar worker (instead of incompetent execs making 100-500 times more?), but it''s not even close to the whole story.

Let's start with healthcare costs, a problem for any US business. How about the geniuses in management, marketing and design? People seem to forget that while the banks were pushing mortgages for everyone with a pulse, the Big Three were in a race to have us all driving bigger and bigger SUVs until we all thought it was a God Given American Bill of Right to have a 3 ton 12 MPG vehicle in every driveway. Each of these gas guzzling, roll-over tending, cup holder filled behemoths carried an obscene profit every time one popped off the end of the line and the Big Three were rolling in dough, even more than drivers were rolling over and crashing. How was this possible? In part, from their push with the federal government to have these vehicles exempt from the same safety standards of cars (because they were "trucks" after all).

Well, that SUV bubble burst too (when gas prices rose - gee who could have ever seen that coming?) leaving the US companies flat on their butts and way behind the competition in Japan and Korea now (like it was the 70s all over again).

However, bubbles take more than the con men, they need the suckers too and just like with the mortgage bubble the US consumer were suckers in the Big Three bubble. Our collective greed and laziness is pretty easy to tap into isn't it? You may or may not want to stick up for the US auto worker, but you can't blame them for everything.

[Bob Rossi]

I think there was a time when a majority of L.L. Bean's items were made here. Unfortunately greed has gotten the best of many "American" manufacturers and they have outsourced good jobs to the third-world.

Fewer jobs here translate to fewer consumers, pretty simple economics.

I give first priority to American made goods when I make purchases, even if it means spending more.
I think a lot of people are fed up with the inferior quality of Asian goods.

As far as what constitutes a living wage, people love to bash the unions and auto workers in particular for making a living wage. What many don't realize is that had it not been for the unions and the autoworkers there wouldn't be a middle class in this country.

There is good reason that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have brought many jobs back to our shores.

[Dave Lehnert]

All I know is no one can change what has happened in the past. All we can do is look forward and get excited about what we can do in this country. Yes, maybe they only pay $10 an hour. ( Maybe $20, who knows) But we are headed in the right direction.

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, I'll put the CEO's pay against the liabilities of the pension programs any day of the week.

I notice the Union wasn't in any part of your definition of the "problem".

I've built a lot of machinery over the years. Machines far more complex than an automobile and I can't see how anyone can say that a new car should cost $45,000. Sorry, it's just not there. If I were making millions or even hundreds of thousands of virtually the same thing, the cost would be far less. But when you have to pay people full wages when they stopped working 10 years ago, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it can't continue. The car companies didn't go bankrupt because of health insurance, they went bankrupt because they couldn't continue to pay the debts that they signed up for under union contracts, contracts that paid people long after their services were done.

[Sean Troy]

Dan, I'll put the CEO's pay against the liabilities of the pension programs any day of the week.

I notice the Union wasn't in any part of your definition of the "problem".

I've built a lot of machinery over the years. Machines far more complex than an automobile and I can't see how anyone can say that a new car should cost $45,000. Sorry, it's just not there. If I were making millions or even hundreds of thousands of virtually the same thing, the cost would be far less. But when you have to pay people full wages when they stopped working 10 years ago, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it can't continue. The car companies didn't go bankrupt because of health insurance, they went bankrupt because they couldn't continue to pay the debts that they signed up for under union contracts, contracts that paid people long after their services were done.
Amen to the truth!!

[Brian Elfert]

Not hardly. Way more than $20 per hour being made in the automotive industry. That's part of what crippled the automotive industry. They were making $20 per hour 20 years ago.

Let's get real on that, you talk about making a "livable wage". What's that mean? That you can afford to buy one of those cars be made by those high wage earners for $45,000 for a simple car or truck?


My understanding is new auto workers are making less than $20 an hour now. Some of the same auto workers that took buyouts have been hired back, but at the new wage rates.

All I know is that most Americans would have a hard time living on $10 an hour unless they are single and renting a room some place. A $10 an hour job probably has no health insurance either.

If everybody in the USA made $10 an hour nobody could ever afford a new car that would eventually become a used car for sale.

[John Shuk]

Dan, I'll put the CEO's pay against the liabilities of the pension programs any day of the week.

I notice the Union wasn't in any part of your definition of the "problem".

I've built a lot of machinery over the years. Machines far more complex than an automobile and I can't see how anyone can say that a new car should cost $45,000. Sorry, it's just not there. If I were making millions or even hundreds of thousands of virtually the same thing, the cost would be far less. But when you have to pay people full wages when they stopped working 10 years ago, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it can't continue. The car companies didn't go bankrupt because of health insurance, they went bankrupt because they couldn't continue to pay the debts that they signed up for under union contracts, contracts that paid people long after their services were done.

Sounds like a fully competent and forward thinking management team signed those contracts right?. I don't have a huge problem with people who work asking for some security in exchange for spending a lifetime hunkered down at some machine.
If anyone has an easy answer to this question let me know. I do know for sure it isn't black and white.

[Callan Campbell]

Dan, I'll put the CEO's pay against the liabilities of the pension programs any day of the week.

I notice the Union wasn't in any part of your definition of the "problem".

I've built a lot of machinery over the years. Machines far more complex than an automobile and I can't see how anyone can say that a new car should cost $45,000. Sorry, it's just not there. If I were making millions or even hundreds of thousands of virtually the same thing, the cost would be far less. But when you have to pay people full wages when they stopped working 10 years ago, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it can't continue. The car companies didn't go bankrupt because of health insurance, they went bankrupt because they couldn't continue to pay the debts that they signed up for under union contracts, contracts that paid people long after their services were done.
Your statements of the car industry and the costs of making what the markets and the buyers want is a bit strange. Depending on what content the vehicle has, and how many units of a particular part are being made that allows the supplier of the component[usually NOT the car manuf themselves] to deliver at an agreed price sets the cost for several years of the production life of the vehicle. And that isn't set in stone either. There are battles constantly on either side to amend a contract.
While I'm going to leave the pay issue of line workers , and CEOs alone, what really gets me about the car business I'm in is that few outside the industry see how hard hit all the suppliers are. They tend to stake their whole business on one or two big contracts with a manuf, and when the same manuf begs for a price reduction on a part/unit, the supplier risks losing their whole way of making money if they can't afford to go along.
So many smaller tier suppliers have been lost over the past 10 years since they couldn't afford to reduce the price of their delivered product when their raw material costs went through the roof since the global markets are fierce and demand can turn on a dime, or off, in the case of the big recession.
These suppliers keep the vehicles running down the road long after the warranty has expired since they're the people who made the part to begin with. No spare parts, no easy repairs or running of the vehicle, no matter what you feel it should have cost in the first place.
Lastly, do you not like pensions at all?. If so, then should it be NO pensions for anyone? Executives get pensions too, and lots of bonus pay even when the company they're in charge of ;tanks in the stock market and fails to pay the investors properly. Golden parachutes cost lots of money even after the CEO has left the building, and is "no longer performing ".

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This thread has gone as far as it should go and is becoming uncivil.

I give you my thoughts before I close the thread.

Selfishness and greed on all parts of the economy caused the problem.

That includes management, labor, stockholders......all were being selfish

And not one single contributor to the problem has ponied up and accepted their portion of the responsibility.

I am closing this thread. It has no value.

If we had a vote in the Moderator's Forum, I'd vote to do away with the Off Topic Forum.