PC Omni, Akeda or Leigh DT Jig?? [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Michael Drew

11-24-2010, 12:49 PM

I've decided to try another jig. I am a weekend warrior and not a professional. I work with wood to keep my sanity, plus, I just enjoy it. Fighting with DT jigs and trying to get a good fitting joint with a stack of rejects at my feet is not fun.

I own a older PC Omni. Don't recall the model number, but it's a 24" jig. I bought it new back in the day when it was the king of DT jigs. I also bought the sliding taper DT template and variable spaced through DT templates with it. I fought with this thing for days ended up making a few OK half blind joints, but set up just irritated me to no end. I've used it maybe four times in the last seven or eight years that I've had it.

I recently upgraded my router table. I bought the Incra 17" super system, a lift and a wixey gauge. I have attempted to make a few DT joints with it, and was somewhat successful but not without a lot of aggravation. Without going into to much detail, it is my humble opinion that this "joinery system" is not designed to be used for anything with a stock thickness more than 1/2" or any sort of heft or size. It's made for frilly little boxes like those demonstrated in the videos that make it look "oh-so-frigin" easy to use.

So now I'm looking at biting the bullet, spending some money and getting a jig that I won't procrastinate using because it's a down right pain in the ass to use. I've narrowed it down to the new PC Omni jig, Akeda and the Leigh. I'd appreciate some user input from folks who have used all three.

I want a jig that will let me cut half blind and through DT's, both fixed and variable spaced. I do not want to have to build things around a pre-set jig joint spacing requirement. I also want it to cut sliding DT's. Dust collection would be great, or at least being able to see where the bit is working would be nice. At this point, price is not a consideration. I've already wasted enough money on wood to pay for a jig, I think.

Thanks for your time......

Jeff Monson

11-24-2010, 1:13 PM

I have a the newer 24" omnijig, its a good jig but lots of fiddling around for setup. Its really nice for through dovetails, and half blinds. But the manual and bushings for variable spaced half blinds are way off. If I had it to do
over I'd go with the akeda, I have read alot of reviews and comments on that jig and not 1 is negative.

John Fabre

11-24-2010, 1:55 PM

+ 1 Akeda, I have owned three new and old Leigh jigs, new and old PC Omnijig and the best one out of them was the Akeda. The Leigh was too confusing, PC, well you can DT faster with a TS.

Michael Drew

11-24-2010, 3:15 PM

Thanks for that input. It's exactly what I need.

I just found a sight with a lot of good comparisons and reviews.

http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/dovetail_jig_compare.htm

Mark Bolton

11-24-2010, 4:05 PM

My opinion of these jigs (own a D4R) is that unless you use them on a regular basis they are just going to be confusing. You trade complete flexibility with a jig like the D4R for complexity in the setup. That said, after its setup its a flawless operation.

We dont use our jig very often and every time we do there is a bit of anxiety trying to work through the setup because every time is like the first time.

I liken this to watching one of the Incra videos, if you used that thing every single day in varying configurations, it would be like a second language. For me, and the amount I would use it, I dont think it would be such a poetry-in-motion type of thing.

Mark

Al Navas

11-24-2010, 6:37 PM

...I want a jig that will let me cut half blind and through DT's, both fixed and variable spaced. I do not want to have to build things around a pre-set jig joint spacing requirement. I also want it to cut sliding DT's. Dust collection would be great, or at least being able to see where the bit is working would be nice. At this point, price is not a consideration....
Michael,

I used a Leigh D4 for many years. I was never able to figure out why people seem to think it is such hard work to set it up and get perfect joints.

Then, recently, I got the D4R Pro. I have been putting through the tests, to see how it compares to the old D4.

The bottom line:

It IS better than the D4 - more features.
It makes half-blind dovetails in one pass.
And it also makes 3/8" and 3/4" inch finger joints, without the need for additional templates.
On top of that, you can vary the dovetail spacing infinitely, at wish.
You can do sliding dovetails, too, and you are able to adjust the amount of taper you get with them by simply sliding back one side of the finger joint assembly.
The dust collection is terrific.
You can get many templates, which makes it one of the most extensible jigs today.

One example of 3/8" finger joints:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/d4r-finger-joints.jpg

Another example, of 3/4" finger joints:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/d4r-3-4-finger-joint-qswo.jpg

As with the old D4, the D4R also makes inlaid dovetails - this is an example I made some time ago with the D4, one regular through dovetails, the other inlaid dovetails:

http://app.quickblogcast.com/images/98838-91456/1_TwoDovetailBoxes_Unfinished.JPG

Imagination is the only requirement; and Leigh also has terrific Technical Support and Customer Service, possibly the best in the industry.

Al

Jim Eller

11-24-2010, 7:29 PM

Michael,

I went through some of the same frustration.

I did a lot of research and watching other folks tell me why their DT jig was the best.

I don't do DT's everyday or every month so I needed something with a short learning and re-learning curve. I purchased a 24" Akeda and I have never looked back. From the time UPS dropped it of, I had a perfect through DT the first time in 20 minutes and that includes reading the manual.

See other comments in #13 here, http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=98823&highlight=dovetail

I'm sure it doesn't fit everyone but it sure fits me.

PS- I didn't pay any attention to that "infinite setting" thing some folks put the Akeda down for. I has never held me back. In fact they have accessory for it if you think you need it. I am more interested in exact duplication if needed.

Just my two cents(or less).

Thanks,
Jim

Michael Drew

11-24-2010, 8:40 PM

Thanks Al, I did not know Leigh had a Pro version out with DC. I will have to look at that one closely.

Jim, I love the KISS philosophy. The Akeda, if nothing else, gets a lot of "ease of use" comments.

I've watched a few videos of Norm and others using the PC. I dunno, seams like a lot to remember with that thing. My choice is definitely narrowed down to the Akeda and Leigh Pro.

Al Navas

11-24-2010, 8:55 PM

Thanks Al, I did not know Leigh had a Pro version out with DC. I will have to look at that one closely...
Michael,

I probably caused some confusion, unintentionally. I should have said that you can also consider getting the VRS (Vaccuum & Router Support (http://www.leighjigs.com/vrs.php)). It is very, very effective and, for the money, a must-have accessory. The VRS is available for just about all their models.

Al

Jonathan Spool

11-24-2010, 11:14 PM

Mostly because I don't cut dovetails all the time, and the intervals between are longt enough for me to forget all the ins and outs of a complicated system, I went with the Akeda. Very very simple, and I don't require "infinite" variable spacing. The 1/8" increments on the Akeda are more than sufficient for me, and more repeatable than an infinite adjustment. Dust collection is also great and doesn't require putting the collector on and off the jig all the time. I'm sure the PC and Leigh are great jigs, and they are intruiging, but the process is just too much for me no matter how easy they look at the shows!

I do my box joints with the Incra fence on the router table as I can cut all four pieces at the same time.

Leigh Betsch

11-24-2010, 11:44 PM

Daryl Henderson

11-25-2010, 11:02 AM

Eight months ago, I was trying to determine which DT jig would be the best for me. This was to be my first jig, and simple but flexible was important.

After reading everything I could find, I went with the Akeda. Went to order the 24" model from The Jig Store and was informed they were backordered until September and I would be put on the list and advised as soon as they were available.

October came around and I had not heard from anyone so I attempted to order the 16" Model (in hindsight should have done that in March). That one is now backordered.

Last week I contacted the Jig Store to see if they knew when they would be available. Short reply was see website, contact Akeda, we don't know.

Emailed Kevan at Akeda:

"Hi Daryl: Apologies, I've been away from the office all day and just
catching up. I don't have an ETA at the moment. If you've reserved
with The Jig Store, they will email you when they expect to have
stock. - Kevan"

Makes you wonder if they will ever be available again.

In light of this info, which jig do you use now?

Mark Carlson

11-25-2010, 11:19 AM

Another vote for the akeda.

Its simple to use and has excellent dust collection. I spend very little time looking at the manual because its so intuitive. I'm using it right now for some Greene and Greene drawers. By moving the plastic pin/tail inserts after a round of cuts, variable spaced proud finger joints are easily done on the Akeda.

~mark

Jim Becker

11-25-2010, 11:32 AM

I've always been a fan of the Leigh and own the D4. Although some others have added features to get similar flexibility, the Leigh has always been focused on creation of dovetail joints without limits. Nice folks to do business with, too.

Michael Drew

11-25-2010, 11:59 AM

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I finally cut some through DT's with my Incra yesterday. Man that sucker takes some time to set up..... I was so concentrated on the joints themselves that I pulled a bone head move and labeled my boards wrong and cut the tails in the top and bottom boards. All that work to cut a decorative type joint and I put it in the boards that will never be seen. Can't cut them out and re do either as that will make the cabinet too small. Dammit... Yep, I'm most definitely going to get something easier to use.

One thing I am a bit troubled by with the Leigh, is the "infinitely adjustable" part. If there is no way to index the fingers mechanically, there is no way to have them repeatable. Even 10 thou of a difference can screw up a project. I think I'm leaning towards the Adeda. I can deal with an 1/8" limitation for finger positioning.

The Akeda inserts look kinda cheesy to me, as well as how they snap in. I have not actually held these parts, so I'm only speculating here, but they look as if they are not very robust. The snap in feature also looks like it might be prone to premature wear. Those who have the Akeda have any input regarding this?

Jonathan Spool

11-25-2010, 12:25 PM

I can't speak to the longivity of the inserts as I've only had the Akeda for 3 months, but the inserts are constructed of a solid material. I don't foresee any issues, but perhaps someone who has had one for a long time can speak to that.

Chris Friesen

11-25-2010, 12:33 PM

Last week I contacted the Jig Store to see if they knew when they would be available. Short reply was see website, contact Akeda, we don't know.

Makes you wonder if they will ever be available again.

In light of this info, which jig do you use now?

One option would be to buy the equivalent Trend jig. It's a rebadged Akeda and it's on sale this weekend at Canadian Woodworker. As I recall it only has 9 fingers, not the 10 of the original Akeda. The Akeda brand accessory kits should fit though...might want to double-check.

Jim Andrew

11-25-2010, 1:13 PM

Just checked Amazon.com, they have the Trend CDJ600 24" for 194.03, and the 12" for 118.99, says includes a router bit and a collar.

Al Navas

11-25-2010, 1:13 PM

...One thing I am a bit troubled by with the Leigh, is the "infinitely adjustable" part. If there is no way to index the fingers mechanically, there is no way to have them repeatable. Even 10 thou of a difference can screw up a project...
Michael,

??? I am not sure what you mean... (bold type by me in the quote above)

The capability to adjust the finger joints in an infinite way is for the dovetail spacing - and it has nothing to do with the joint fit. For example, you can create a piece that is only 4 inches tall and has two dovetails centered in the panel; but you can also create a 10-inch tall piece that also has 2, much larger dovetails; and in both cases you will have perfectly-fitting joints.

A large advantage is that you can always adjust the finger assembly such that you will have a partial finger on each end.

Please let me know if I could call you, as I get the impression there is some confusion regarding spacing vs. joint fit.

Al

Joe Leigh

11-25-2010, 1:34 PM

Al, I think he means that the fingers can be repositioned into the same exact location each time due to the machined notches in the rail that holds the finger assemblies.

Al Navas

11-25-2010, 3:04 PM

Chris Friesen

11-26-2010, 1:09 PM

Just checked Amazon.com, they have the Trend CDJ600 24" for 194.03, and the 12" for 118.99, says includes a router bit and a collar.

That's not the Akeda clone. I'm talking about the DC400. Available at Canadian Woodworker this weekend for $249.95 CAD. (The normal price is $375, but check the "feature items" on the main web page.)

https://www.canadianwoodworker.com/webstore/wecs.php?store=&action=display&target=DC400

Chris Friesen

11-26-2010, 1:16 PM

I understand - but what I do not understand is how 0.010" can mess up a project... Positioning, and being off 0.010" is not likely to mess up a dovetailed project. I still think I am missing something...

I think he's talking about cutting the tails, then resetting the jig for something else, then coming back and cutting the pins. With the Akeda you could actually do this. With the Leigh, you need to cut both pins and tails before resetting the jig.

Doesn't seem like a huge limitation, personally. (I don't have either jig.) Repeatability vs infinite variability.

Al Navas

11-26-2010, 1:27 PM

Thanks, Chris.

I have thought about that, too. I just don't see having to do as you say, since I have never had to do it. But you are right about re-setting the jig for another job. I cannot think of a single case in which you *must* do so, and then come back to finish the job.

I have not idea what Michael was addressing - and I would be speculating, and taking wild guesses...:o I truly would like to hear from Michael what he meant.

Al

Michael Drew

11-26-2010, 1:29 PM

I understand - but what I do not understand is how 0.010" can mess up a project... Positioning, and being off 0.010" is not likely to mess up a dovetailed project. I still think I am missing something... :confused:

Al

In the event that you flip your boards from end to end (like you have to with the Omni), and if the fingers are not perfectly centered on the board, the joint will be off double of whatever the error was.

I just went through this with my Incra too. Even though it touts "perfect centering" of the bit to the work, it was off a few thou' and the tail / pin boards did not line up propperly.

Michael Drew

11-26-2010, 1:36 PM

That's not the Akeda clone. I'm talking about the DC400. Available at Canadian Woodworker this weekend for $249.95 CAD. (The normal price is $375, but check the "feature items" on the main web page.)

https://www.canadianwoodworker.com/webstore/wecs.php?store=&action=display&target=DC400

I just checked and was unable to find the sale price. It's listed for 375.

Al Navas

11-26-2010, 1:39 PM

Michael,

Ahhh - I see what you meant!

However, don't worry - with the Leigh jigs you rotate the work pieces either clockwise, or counterclockwise, not end-on-end (which you *must* do when you cut finger joints on the Leigh jigs!). So, this is not a problem, as one side is always registered accurately against a side stop. In fact, the only thing that is critical is the board orientation when you machine the tail boards, and also the finger boards. And, for the craftsman, the critical thing is how *you* prefer the dovetail spacing - it is up to you how you space the fingers on the finger assembly, to get the most pleasing look to the dovetails. And getting the proper fit is trivial, once you get the feel for it - the guides on the finger assembly will adjust in predictable increments, as they have divisions to help with this, and the divisions are marked very accurately.

Al

Mark Carlson

11-26-2010, 2:28 PM

I've had my 16in version for 3 or 4 years and the plastic inserts have not degraded at all. The inserts are very hard. I've cut the tail inserts in half for various reasons and it takes some considerable effort to saw these things.

~mark

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

The Akeda inserts look kinda cheesy to me, as well as how they snap in. I have not actually held these parts, so I'm only speculating here, but they look as if they are not very robust. The snap in feature also looks like it might be prone to premature wear. Those who have the Akeda have any input regarding this?

Mark Woodmark

11-26-2010, 9:46 PM

I owned a Leigh, too hard to set up. I still own an Ominjig, I little easier to set up than the Leigh. I also purchased the Akeda, very easy to setup and use. I would opt for the Akeda. If you are going to do a lot of production dovetails and can afford it, what about a dovetail machime

http://www.akeda.com/

http://www.macoserwood.com/product1.html

http://www.dodds.com/products/products.php?categoryID=2

Brandon Weiss

11-26-2010, 10:43 PM

I have a question of those of you that own DT jigs already. How many of you find it important to have the 24" capacity instead of just having the 16" capacity?

John Fabre

11-27-2010, 12:34 AM

I have a question of those of you that own DT jigs already. How many of you find it important to have the 24" capacity instead of just having the 16" capacity?

Really depends on your build, if building blanket chests go with the 24in, if only drawers go with the 16in. I only used 10in of all the jigs I used.

Al Navas

11-27-2010, 8:57 AM

I have a question of those of you that own DT jigs already. How many of you find it important to have the 24" capacity instead of just having the 16" capacity?
Brandon,

I think that knowing what type of project you will tackle truly helps in making a decision on the size of jig to get. If you want to make only small projects, the smaller jigs will be fine. But if you want to make both large and small projects, then a larger jig with more flexibility might be your ticket.

For best flexibility, the 24" jigs give the most. I just know that anything smaller would have me looking for something larger, eventually. For example, I made large panels, all dovetailed:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Sandal_Woods/Tables/Cuttingpinsonbottompanel.jpg

And cut sliding dovetails to fit a divider -= here, I am ready to cut the slot:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Sandal_Woods/Tables/PreparingtocutslidingDTslot.jpg?t=1194388520

And here I am cutting the sliding tail:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Sandal_Woods/Tables/HowtosneakuponslidingDT.jpg

Results:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Sandal_Woods/Tables/CarcassdryfitwithslidingDTpanelinpl.jpg

And the whole thing becomes a changing table, which later can be used as a chest of drawers:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Sandal_Woods/Tables/Changingtable-readyfordelivery.jpg

Of course, it also allows making smaller projects (from the Leigh Inlaid Dovetails Gallery):

http://www.leighjigs.com/data/1171057390.jpg

and:

http://www.leighjigs.com/data/1171057494.jpg

Early on I decided I wanted to make blanket chests, and large cabinets, with solid wood. But I also love making smaller jewelry boxes:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/box-fingers-curly-maple.jpg

Flexibility is wonderful when you have the larger jigs, especially the Leigh. But the other half is the requirement to get to *know* the capability of *your* jig, as well as its limitations.

Erik Christensen

11-27-2010, 9:02 AM

I have a Leigh D4 and love it. My first dovetail jig. Yah it takes some setup but no it is not hard - the manual is just about fool proof. I got it for infinite spacing & the iso-lock joints.

It takes no longer to setup & test a few samples to dial in a perfect joint than it does to setup a precise dado cut on a table saw much less setup anything on a power fed shaper. To me the setup is not unreasonable and only required for a specific dovetail size - you can cut any number of different spaced joints on any number of drawer sizes and never have to do any more 'setup'.

Why the infinite spacing is important to me - I can make drawers of any height, with any bottom thickness with the drawer bottom dado any height up drawer side bottom edge and still have the tail perfectly cover the dado.

Jay Allen

11-27-2010, 9:59 AM

I bought a 12" Leigh Super jig a few years ago, when they were first introduced. It was my first step away from the "fixed" half blind type jigs. If I had known how much I would like it (and use it), I would have saved a little longer and gotten a bigger one.

roman fedyk

11-28-2010, 4:55 PM

I have all three dovetail machines. The Akeda 16 (have two of them), the Leigh D4R with the VRS system and a 24" Omnijig.

Of the these machines I always wind up using the Akeda, because it is always ready to go with no major "thinking" about how to get started.

I have an extra Akeda 16 that is unused if anyone needs one.

Brandon Weiss

11-28-2010, 5:03 PM

roman fedyk

11-28-2010, 8:47 PM

The inserts are made from a carbon fiber material. It is extremely strong, as witnessed by fighter planes being made from this type of material.

I have used them for years and have not had to replace one yet.....

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I finally cut some through DT's with my Incra yesterday. Man that sucker takes some time to set up..... I was so concentrated on the joints themselves that I pulled a bone head move and labeled my boards wrong and cut the tails in the top and bottom boards. All that work to cut a decorative type joint and I put it in the boards that will never be seen. Can't cut them out and re do either as that will make the cabinet too small. Dammit... Yep, I'm most definitely going to get something easier to use.

One thing I am a bit troubled by with the Leigh, is the "infinitely adjustable" part. If there is no way to index the fingers mechanically, there is no way to have them repeatable. Even 10 thou of a difference can screw up a project. I think I'm leaning towards the Adeda. I can deal with an 1/8" limitation for finger positioning.

The Akeda inserts look kinda cheesy to me, as well as how they snap in. I have not actually held these parts, so I'm only speculating here, but they look as if they are not very robust. The snap in feature also looks like it might be prone to premature wear. Those who have the Akeda have any input regarding this?

Michael Drew

11-29-2010, 12:24 PM

I think I've decided to go with the 24" Akeda.

I'm having trouble finding one to buy though. Any suggestions?

Frank Martin

11-29-2010, 12:59 PM

How about the Router Boss or Wood Rat? Do they have any merit? I use an Incra fence on my router table but it's not simple. I just cut some box joints tonight, they are good but a bit too tight. I think I'll go back to the tablesaw with my shop built fixture and Freud box blade for those. I built a DT jig for my table saw, but it's still complicated so I'm still looking for the perfect DT jig too. May try the band saw next.

I have been using a WoodRat for 6 years for dovetails. I really like it. I actually think it is fairly simple to set up. I have always used it for through dovetails though, have not had a need to do half blinds yet.

Before getting the WoodRat I had purchased the Leigh jig. After reading the manual, I returned it unused to get the WoodRat as I thought Leigh required too many set-up steps. My shop time is limited and infrequent, so did not want to re-learn each time when I need to to dovetails, hence the WoodRat. I have not regretted my decision yet. I have also used WoodRat for many other joints, including mortise & tenon, loose tenon, etc. After getting the Festool Domino, now I use it for nearly all my loose tenon joinery.

If I was looking into WoodRat now, I would likely opt for the Router Boss. It solved one of the annoyances I have with the WoodRat, which is the slop in the carriage assembly. This slop is not important for dovetails or box joints, but more for other joints....

Al Navas

11-29-2010, 1:54 PM

I think I've decided to go with the 24" Akeda...
Michael,

Congratulations on making a decision! I would love to see a project made with it, as I have yet to see one, even from the guys who like them so much. My advice: Practice, and get to know the jig as well as you can, regardless the brand or type. Only practice will make perfect.

Al

Chris Harry

11-29-2010, 3:35 PM

I think I've decided to go with the 24" Akeda.

I'm having trouble finding one to buy though. Any suggestions?

Last communication I had with Kevan at Akeda was it (the 24" model) would be available March/April of 2011 at the earliest.

Only thejigstore.com is a reseller in the US....someone on this forum linked to a place in Canada that apparently had one remaining but never got back to me on it. At least a fellow creeker was able to get it :) but they said they had no more left.

Michael Drew

11-30-2010, 1:12 PM

Bummer. So much for adding this to my Christmas wish list then. Might have to get the Leigh another look.

Al Navas

11-30-2010, 1:44 PM

Michael,

Please, let me know if I can answer any questions you might have about the Leigh jig. If I cannot answer them, I will try my best to give you an answer quickly. Alternatively, you might want to call Leigh Technical Support - they will address any question you might have prior to buying, and after. Terrific Customer Service, and fantastic Technical Support.

Do you have a Woodworkers Guild close by? Members might be able to show you the jig features, and share their experience with you :)

Al

John Fabre

11-30-2010, 2:49 PM

I think I've decided to go with the 24" Akeda.

I'm having trouble finding one to buy though. Any suggestions?
It might be a long shot but you can post a wanting to buy (WTB) ad in the classifieds here for a 24" Akeda jig. Check the Bay and CL.

Phillip Ngan

11-30-2010, 7:19 PM

One of the things I like about the Leigh system is that they offer upgrades for older models so that you can take advantage of the new features as they are introduced. I bought a D4, which I upgraded to a D4R, which in turn can be upgraded to a D4R Pro. So your investment is less likely to be made obsolete. The upgrades are pretty inexpensive too because it is just a matter of buying the new parts individually, and you can pick and choose which parts you desire.