Monster set up & HF questions

[Ken Hill]

Ok, whats the low down on the Monster kit with the "Laser" <----Love Austin Powers!

I see its offered with and with out the "Laser"...I would say IF I went down that road I would spring for teh "Laser":D

Im runninga Delta 46-460....which is better the unit for teh mini lathes or standard? (I know think upgraded lathe) However is there drawbacks to using the larger set up versus the mini?

On to the HF stuff....

Are they basically just art? Do they serve a purpose or just one being creative?

I notice a wide variation in sizes, and particuliarly the opening size.

Are most turned green then dried like bowls? Same type of thickness procedures?

Sorry for the questions, just looking at things for now....:rolleyes:

[David E Keller]

You know you want the laser... Every tool should have a freakin' laser!

I'd talk with Randy about the pros/cons(if any) of getting the standard sized monster. I believe he advised JK to go with the standard.

As for HFs... They're purdy! Do you really need a greater purpose than that? If you see a nice looking woman in a bikini, do you ask yourself, "What does she do?" I think not. You just admire her beauty... Assuming that SWMBO is not looking at you at the same time!:D

[Michael James]

Ken,
I'm just a wanker and recently upgraded to the 46-460 which I had been planning on doing for many months. I went with the mini because I have no desire to turn big stuff, and if I do need the occasional larger unit, I can call one of the local club members (dang Im getting my 10$ worth)
John K has the same Delta with the full size monster - he seems the most knowledgeable in this area. Im sure he'll share his views.
I don't turn utility anything, except pens so I suppose the applications are as varied as the taste in open forms. Vases, etc. I want to fully explore the SW pottery forms and most of the "seed jars" that really attract me are all hollow and some with very small openings. Im still learning, and with a bowl gouge Ive lost several small openings to a catch..... not so with the mini. If you intend to hollow a lot, you will enjoy and value it for it's ease of use and save a lot of wear and tear not doing it Ellsworth style.
I do not regret the purchase and foresee many yrs of use.
Good luck!
mj

[Steve Schlumpf]

Ken - I would suggest you talk with Randy about what system would best fit your style of turning - but I am willing to bet it would be the standard size articulated system.

Hollow forms can serve all sorts of purposes - depending on design. I have seen them used as burial urns, potpourri containers, artistic forms and even cookie jars!

Most of my HFs are strictly for decoration and I consider them art. ;) I find it funny how folks will ask what a HF is used for but never ask that about a painting or statue. Has to be that folks still see wood as a utilitarian material - but we are trying to change that perception!

[Ken Hill]

Oh I get the art side of it, some of them posted here are just insane. You sort of answered my question by showing me other items can be made that do serve a purpose other then the art side of things. Ive never considered myself art related so im trying to grasp the whole concept.

Im still reading about them (HF's), and I am not ready to just up and order one, but soon I figure. I'd just like to make sure I get everything i need, i hate buying one item and having to have umpteen items they did not include!

It has amazed me at the varying sizes of items, if you just look at the pictures, some of the items posted here seem huge, but when dimensions are posted, you can see how small some rae...incredible to a person who has never stepped foot in any type of art gallery etc to see this stuff firsthand. They do have a wooden shine jug at the local sundry however!

Im always open to suggestions, so please keep things coming!

[Steve Schlumpf]

Ken - the neat thing about the Monster systems is that they come complete - and - make sure you get the laser!

When you see photos of HFs and you can't judge the actual size - that, to me, is a sign of a good form because a good form holds true no matter what dimensions. Something to strive for but very hard to pull it off consistently.

Also - when thinking about HFs and what you can use them for - an easy thing to remember is that anything out there that has a lid is basically just a hollow form.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have the monster system and it is complete. Buy the laser or be prepared to measure every few cuts when you get toward the end.

[Ken Hill]

Oh no, gotta have that "Laser"!!!

Ok, so the system is basically self contained and ready to go albiet set up etc.

Any quirks?

[David E Keller]

No quirks... It took less than half an hour to go from box to turning with it.

[Ken Hill]

No quirks... It took less than half an hour to go from box to turning with it.


A "Laser" and simplicity......this is too easy:D

[Jim Burr]

I've had mine for about a month and have a dozen more blanks lined up to HF. I think it's just another dimension of the craft. Some here make bowls, some make pens, some make utility items, some make HF's. I'll get smacked for it, but I think you need to explore all elements of turning to be proficient at turning. I don't see longevity in the craft if all you do is one genre or another. Thousands of guys make pens...75 make a living at it. HF's is something you have to want to do to elevate your skill and knowledge. Everyone should make a pen...trust me, the upper end ones are no where as easy as they look...ask Les Elm. Work through every aspect...then you'll be a turner.

[John Keeton]

Ken, first of all, you have made the correct decision on getting the laser - it is worth every penny of the difference.

Do keep in mind, however, that you MUST reset the cutter head (or change heads) several times during a hollowing in order to get the angle of cut correct.

And, you MUST change the position of the laser MANY times in order to get a consistent wall thickness. The cutters have a slight radius ground on the cutting edge. Sometimes you will be cutting with the center of the radius, and sometimes more with the edge - usually the left edge. The laser must be indexed from the actual cutting edge, so it must be adjusted constantly depending on where you are inside the vessel. This just takes a few seconds, but it can be critical. If your laser is reading off the front center of the cutter, but you are actually contacting the wood with the extreme left edge, you could go through the wall of the form in fast order!!:eek:

To your other questions -

However, are there drawbacks to using the larger set up versus the mini?

One of the main differences in the two systems is the diameter of the bar - the regular system is 3/4", and the cutter heads are 3/4" as well. The mini is 5/8", I believe, and I assume the cutter heads are 5/8". There could be times that the smaller bar would be helpful. However, the deeper you go, the more you will want the heavier bar. And, there is the lathe upgrade issue. Randy strongly suggested the regular system, and I am glad I did it. I may, however, end up getting a smaller bar and cutter head at some point in the future.

On to the HF stuff....

Are they basically just art? Do they serve a purpose or just one being creative?

You have gotten good answers on this one - the purpose is to offer an aesthetically pleasing object to be admired by the maker and the viewer.

I notice a wide variation in sizes, and particuliarly the opening size.

Most of my forms are 4-6" in width, but I have seen several that are smaller, and I have done a few smaller. I believe most of the SW forms are somewhat larger - perhaps 7-9". Also, there are several very nice pieces that are in the 9-10" range. Steve's comment about not being able to perceive the size from a pic is very appropriate. Getting a very small form to appear much larger in the pic is not as easy as one might think.

I am working on a form at the moment that has a 1" hole - the smallest I have done. I like lidded forms, and usually I hollow through a larger hole as I am going to set in a collar and lid anyway.

Are most turned green then dried like bowls? Same type of thickness procedures?

All I have done to this point have been done dry, but Steve has encouraged me to try the DNA method, and I have one drying now that will be my first "return" HF. I used the 10% method - the form is about 6" or so, and I left the walls about 1/2".

Sorry for the questions, just looking at things for now....:rolleyes:

Yep, that is exactly what I did - for about two weeks before placing my order!!!:D:D;)

[Josh Bowman]

Ken, the only thing I did was read Randy's email to make sure the cutter was at centerline. The Monster went together like a dream. Fit and finish are spot on. The articulating Monster comes with everthing you need.....and may ever need. I'm not kidding, it even has extra tie wraps and screws! I feel the laser is a must. I hold my hand below the blade and set the laser in front of the cutter the thickness I want the HF to be. So when the laser begins the fall off the HF, I'm at the correct thickness. That where you have to readjust. The laser/cutter is different for sides/bottom and shoulders. The price looks high, but when you see you will not need anything else, it's actually a good deal.

[Ken Hill]

Thanks John, I knew you would chime in:D

Ive watched many videos on the system and it seems to work extremely well. Ive all but pulled the trigger.....

I understand the size of bar differences, and ofcourse the "I'll never do larger stuff or get a larger lathe deal", is there anything as far as fitment or workspace requirements that seperate the two? I have gobs of room, and can build a better table/platform for my lathe if needed to accomodate the set up if needed.

The bowls I am making are already on their way, I really cant believe the attention they are getting and I have so many to make, people just seem to cant get enough of the turned stuff I geuss. I am not sure HF's will be as well recieved by the potential customer base I have but I never thought bottle stoppers would be a hit with them and i've already sold enough to pay for this Monster system with just last weeks orders so who knows. I geuss it will not collect dust even if I never sell one. My intention isnt to sell these as much as it is to add to what I am learning but it sure seems I have a market for alot of these items as a whole. A local store wants everything from my calls to bowls and stoppers as fast as I can get them, and I sure did not tell them cheap prices....it makes me wonder how it could grow if I got serious about it! My area is steeped in tourism from the metro Washington/Baltimore area, so I figure that is why the lust for handcrafted items. My sons both are trying to learn so they can help with the stoppers and game call orders....I have been blessed for sure!

I have several bowls that were turned and DNA soaked and I should be final turning several next week, so I understand the DNA method in theory and practice but I did do a few with just a paper wrap to see what the outcome will be. In all honesty, my decision to buy may hinge on how I like returning items, with the spindle work im done when I turn the lathe off for the most part and the item is shipped the next day. Im handling the wait for the bowls pretty good, I hate waiting on anything!

I may just hold off until around the new year to see where I stand, but I reckon the more info I have now will benefit my choices. Hard to believe 2011 is almost here so it wont be a long process regardless!

[Ken Hill]

Ken, the only thing I did was read Randy's email to make sure the cutter was at centerline. The Monster went together like a dream. Fit and finish are spot on. The articulating Monster comes with everthing you need.....and may ever need. I'm not kidding, it even has extra tie wraps and screws! I feel the laser is a must. I hold my hand below the blade and set the laser in front of the cutter the thickness I want the HF to be. So when the laser begins the fall off the HF, I'm at the correct thickness. That where you have to readjust. The laser/cutter is different for sides/bottom and shoulders. The price looks high, but when you see you will not need anything else, it's actually a good deal.


Thanks Josh, the cost of equipment doesn't worry me really. Im not loaded, but running my own business I geuss has tempered me to the prices of things and I know the cost can be absorbed and offset by the increased revenue. I drop $5k on camera body's and as much on a lens and just keep moving, it is part of the beast that keeps the bills paid. Im just trying to be as educated as one can be when buying anything these days so my dollar is spent in the best manner possible.

My last "hobby" turned into a full fledged business and I now have over $50k in equipment...and you guys think the Vortex exists only in wood turning LOL!

[Jim Burr]

My last "hobby" turned into a full fledged business and I now have over $50k in equipment...and you guys think the Vortex exists only in wood turning LOL!

Ha!!! I know the feeling Ken...I've had GAS (guitar acquisition syndrome) for years :D