New to WW, Seeking TS Advice

[Brad Hill]

Greetings,

Quick background: I'm 26 years old and my wife and I just purchased our first home. It's a 100 year old fixer upper (http://www.itrn.org/niles_house/) and we're totally jazzed about it but as an apartment dweller for a while now, my tool collection is seriously lacking. I'm a computer engineer so of course I read about everything before I buy it. I found these forums a couple weeks ago and have been HOOKED ever since, reading all I can find about tools and techniques, and enjoying the various posted pictures.

Prior to two weeks ago, I owned a few screwdrivers ... and a soldering gun =). For Christmas I got a Dewalt Cordless 4 Pack (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=8216) and a Nifty Miter Saw (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=6058) so things are looking some better. I'm interested in trying my hands at some woodworking, specifically a platform bed and maybe some shelves for my new office. It is quite obvious to me that the table saw is the most commonly used tool (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=11374&highlight=tool+center+shop) most of you have so I've somehow worked myself up into believing I NEED to have one. Why oh why didn't anyone ever share with me the joy of buying tools before now?!

I am interested in pursuing WW as a hobby separate from the restoration of my home though it's doubtulf I will ever be as hardcore (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?u=869) as many of you are.

So here's my question(s): What beginner table saw or saws would you recommend I take a look at acquiring? I would like (I think) to spend under $500 for sure and really go as cheap as possible ($200 - $300 seems ok). This will give me some experience with using this tool and let me get a feel for whether or not WW is something I could pursue as a life hobby. Should I be looking for used here? Are portable saws (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=103) worth anything at all? Am I even on the right track at all here?

Many thanks for offering these forums, there is a wealth of knowledge and experienced people here. Thanks too, in advance for any advice you may have to offer on this topic, or that of dealing with women.

__
Brad Hill

[Wes Newman]

Brad, Welcome to the Creek. I'm sure there will be many opinons on this subject, so I'll give you mine first. There are not a whole lot of Table saws in the 200-300 range it kind of jumps from 125 to about 500. I have the Grizzly G0444Z (http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G0444Z) and really like it. I know its a little out of your range, but thats what I would recommend.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Brad, welcome!

First off, the safety sentance... WHATEVER you do, when you get a saw, READ the manual and INSTALL the guard and leave it there :). Once you get used to it, you won't ever want to take it off because "it get's in the way".

Anyway, I would suggest one of two options.

Option 1: Search for a used Contractor saw, like a delta or similar.

Option 2: Buy the same table saw I did: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00921824000&subcat=Table+Saws

It is a bench top saw with a fold away stand. It has served me very well! Would I have been better off money wise saving $1500 for a unisaw... SURE! But it cuts wood straight and has done everything that I have asked for it. IMHO, it would be a great saw to "get your feet wet". Also, when you do want to upgrade, and you will if you stick with woodworking, it is a good enough saw to keep around to set up for dadoes or something like that.

[Jim Becker]

Brad, welcome to SMC and woodworking! Both are wonderful pasttimes... :D

My recommendation for a "first table saw" is a contractor's style saw with an induction motor. They will serve you well and when you get to the point you want to upgrade to a cabinet saw or a Euro machine, you'll get back a nice chunk of your investment. These machines have the power and accuracy to do real work and will not ruin your hearing.

Happy Holidays!

[Marshall Harrison]

Welcome Brad.

There's a lot of information floating around the Creek. All you need to do is ask.

As for your first saw I would reccomend looking around for a used contractor's saw. The guys on here can tell you what to look for in a used saw. I would also suggest that you check out "The Complete Table Saw Book" ISBN 1-890621-66-8. It does a great job telling you what to look for in a used saw plus it's a good intro on how to use a table saw.

If you could spend in the $400 range the new Sears hybrid (mod# 922104) can be had for around that when on sale and with a Craftsman club discount. I paid $386 for mine and it has been great. They are new and the jury is still out on how well they will hold up but I think they beat the contractor tyoe saws for the money I paid.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

[Rich Tesoroni]

Another vote for a used contractors saw. In SE PA, you can find a ton of estate actions, and they are a good source older saws that you'll be able to sell later for what you pay for it.

Person at work has a tool budget that seems near zero. I suggested one of the clamp guides that works with the circular saw. He's happy with it, and even if you buy a big cabinet saw, it's still great for cutting down sheets or as a router guide.

Anything I bought new as a compromise that I didn't really want I've regretted. Every single time.

As others have said, keep safety in mind and make a nice supply of push sticks.

That's would be my 2 cents if I hadn't spent them this month.

Rich

[Jason Sanko]

I would take a serious look at the new Craftsman hybrids. I have one and love it. The lowest model I believe is the 22104 you can probably get on sale fora round $400. I got the middle model (if I can get pictures to post I will post below) for right at $500 with a 20% off sale combined with a 10% craftsman club sale. I traded in a Jet contractors model for it because the dust collection was killing me and getting all through my house becuase I work in the attached garage.

Yes I am new to site. I have been lurking for a while though. Since I have been lurking I know you guys like pictures. Attached is a picture of my "big" tools for now. Not new to woodworking but took a break from it for a number of years till I could afford to get back into it. For years all I had was a TS> A year or so ago a older gentleman passed away and I got his 1940's Bandsaw. I totally restored it and it got me back into the bug. Please ignore the clutter in my shop I just ran downstairs and took a couple pictures before posting this. I am in the middle of a couple projects right now (reflooring laundry room and also building the wall cabinents you can see hanging in the picture with the level in it).

Oh and tool gloat. I know it is not the best portable but my lovely wife got me the Ridgid TP1300 planer sitting there for Cristmas. Now another project gets added to the list a nice planer stand to match all my other assorted shop cabinentry.

[Frank Pellow]

Welcome to Saw Mill Creek both Brad and Jason! Jason, it would appear that you already know your way around and know the rules. I hope to see many posts from both of you in the future.

Brad, there are two table saws in the $500 (US) price range that I have used and can recommned. These are the Rigid TS3650 contractors saw and the DeWalt DW744 bench saw. (For myself, I have just jetisoned the Craftsman saw that I owned for over 30 years and am going the purchase a cabinet table saw.)

[Ted Shrader]

Hi Brad -

First, Welcome to the Creek. As you have discovered it is a great place to hang out, a good group of folks, and will supply a wealth of information.

A good choice would be a contractors saw - belt drive with induction motor. Induction motors are quieter than universal motors. With a contractors saw you won't have to "fight the saw" to get some bigger cuts made. If you can find a used one that is in reasonable (or restorable) shape, go for it. If you decide woodworking is for you, you can add a few upgrades or sell the saw outright to someone else in the same position and upgrade to a cabinet saw.

As you search for the right saw, be sure to search the forums for comments.

Again, Welcome!

Ted

[Darren Ford]

Jason, how about some more pictures of the bandsaw? It looks like you did a fine job on the restoration.

[Marshall Harrison]

Welcome Jason.

Don't you hang out on another forum where Craftsman bashing is a way of life for some? You won't find that in the Creek but there are some here who are mighty fond of green tools :D.

I much prefer the Creek to that other place as everyone here is civilized and treats each other well.

mkh

[Jason S]

Jason, how about some more pictures of the bandsaw? It looks like you did a fine job on the restoration.
Here you go. I am at work and these are all I have.

Yes Marshall, I am over at the other place. I am very non-brand orientatedas far as everything in life goes. I look for great value which is why I defend that saw. I am fond of some green things too. Have an 8 inch jointer green I can go pick up here locally in WA as we have a Grizzly place. Would like one of there 18 inch BS also.

[Jason S]

Sorry to highjack thread, more Band Saw

[Frank Pellow]

Jason, thats a very impressive restoration job on the bandsaw.

[Joe Mioux]

Hi Brad:

Welcome to SMC, you will like it here. Like the others have noted, go with a contractor style saw first. A few ppl have mentioned the Craftsman hybrid, looks like a nice saw, but their are others out there. Look at Grizzly, Bridgewood, General International etc.

You can find a good contractor table saw for around $500.
The benefits
1)If you don't continue with ww'g you can sell it AND recoup most
of your money. That won't happen with a bench top model...
2)Much more power with a contractor saw, 1.5-2.0 hp motor.
3)Much better fence with a contractor style saw.

[Ted Shrader]

Hi Jason -

Welcome to the Creek! A great place to hang out. Friendly atmosphere, good advice, great people.

Not often another new person jumps in on a "newbie" thread. With pictures, even! :) :) :) Way to go! Nice job on the Delta BS resoration.

Welcome,
Ted

[Rob Russell]

Brad,

Welcome to SMC. It's a great place and they even let folks like me hang around! :D

On your table saw needs, I'd look for a decent used saw. I started with an old Craftsman contractor's saw, upgraded to a Rockwell Unisaw and replaced that with a euro-slider. You really only want to go through the upgrade process once and buying a used saw means that you're letting someone else pay for the largest chunk of depreciation. So, look for a decent used contractor's saw. I've seen the little portable saws in use and they're fine for jobsite work, but I think you'd find one limiting for nice trim work.

On the topic of tools, I read through your post and checked out some of the links. I have a similar Dewalt 18v set (saw, non-hammer drill and flood light) and enjoy all of them. Don't be surprised if you find that you use the floodlight more than any of the other tools.

I'd also recommend that you return your Dewalt DW712 and get this miter saw (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=4741) instead. From the looks of your house, you have a bit of interior trim work to do. To put up crown moulding, you really want a double bevel compound miter saw, the slider is even better. When you're doing an outside crown moulding joint, you need the bevel and miter capability on both the left and right sides. I realize it's a chunk of $$$ to go from the 712 to the 708, but it's worth it. I have the 708 and am very glad that I spent the money to get that saw rather than settling for something smaller and without the double bevel, compound miter features.

One other comment - get the vines off of your house ASAP. They promote moisture retention and will accelerate your siding rotting. It may look quaint, but climbing vines like that do a real job on houses. If you insist on the vines, pull them down and install a stand-off trellis for the vines to climb so you have some air space against the house.

Good luck with your house project!

Rob

[Dan Mages]

Greetings and salutations!! Almost two years ago I bought a 40 year old raised ranch as a fixer upper. I know exaclty what you are going through. It has and is a wonderful project. For the work I have done on the house, I have used the Bosch 4000 tablesaw. It has been very nice for my needs. You will not be able to do Queen Ann furniture on it, but it will be a good place to start. It typically starts around $100.

Dan

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00067IX1A.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[scott spencer]

If you really want to stick to the lower end of your budget I'd get a good used contractor saw. Check your local classifieds, Ebay, and the classifieds here. Otherwise I'd suggest checking into a Grizzly G0444 or the new Sears 22104. Note that Grizzly's prices are going up 1/1/05....meaning order today to save > $50.