A question about using wood with the plinth in it

[John A. Callaway]

Got a little time to start on another cabinet today. This one will be Krenov style wall cabinet. I have a really nice piece of wide spalted maple .... So that will be the door and it will be mounted in a walnut case. Left side Brusso knife hinges...( see page 55 of the 2004 edition of The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking to see the inspiration for the piece )

My problem is this :

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/trainman0978/DSCN2722.jpg

These four boards were one board, cut into rough lengths ... I only will need to use two of them. These are right at 15/16" thick, and the sides are 5/8" thick.... Now , with the plinth still in the wood, can I safely use this for the top and bottom of the cabinet ? This wood is very dry, and I still need to flatten it out with the number 8 ...

I have read that plinth wood should not be used... and I didn't see that it was even there until I started rough cutting the boards out to shape... So , should I use it... or find something else?


Also, I took a stab at a set of half blinds today... The walnut is a little wider on purpose. The top and bottom of the cabinet has a small ledge , so I cut a set with the offset exaggerated to see how it works...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/trainman0978/DSCN2712.jpg

I know I got a little too overzealous with the marking knife lines, but all in all... not bad for a first set.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/trainman0978/DSCN2716.jpg

[David Weaver]

Never used wood with the pith in it, except on chisel handles. I would say that the part outside of the pith ought to be awfully stable :D

One aside, if you do use it, at least it's walnut and not apple or beech or some other wood that has awful behavior when it dries.

[Sean Hughto]

A "plinth" is a an architectural support like the the block at the base of most columns or pedestals.

The word you're looking for here is "pith."

The pith is an unstable part of the tree as far as movement and cracking. However, once a board is dry, it may be a moot point (i.e., safe to use).

[Andrae Covington]

Considering that probably 80% of the board is quartersawn, you're probably ok. The pith or nearby areas can split but it seems like that would have already happened in the drying process if it was prone to do so. Also there can be lots of knots from the early days of the tree, but the surface looks good to me.

My guess is that it's better to have the pith in the center of the board rather than on one side, which would suffer from more-than-usual cupping. What you probably will end up with as the wood moves is boards that are thicker in the middle than at the edges.

http://www.woodworkdetails.com/images/shrinkage.png

The top of one of my sawbenches is a board that was sawn through the pith. It has cupped away from that side somewhat. The workbench leg behind was made from the same board, four pieces glued together.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=168117&stc=1&d=1290550077

[Andrew Gibson]

as far as the DT go, you can cut your pin board a little deep then plane the end grain flush. that will get rid of the knife marks... I am talking about making the pins maybe 1/32" to deep. just remember to account for it when you are building a drawer so that you dont make the dtrawer 1/16" to narrow.

as far a s the walnut goes, I say use it as is. the only other option would be to loose about 1" out of the middle and gule them back up.

[Steve Branam]

If the boards have width to spare, you could be extra safe and rip out the pith, forming two quartersawn pieces, then edge-glue them back together. That would give you a good solid, stable board.

[Tony Shea]

As for the pith in your wood, I would just forget about it and try to keep it as centered in the board as possible. The closer it is to the surface the more issues it may cause, which really isn't very significant with dry wood.

As for the DT's, I would work on keeping the baseline a bit tighter on the tail board. This could just be due to the surface of your practise peice or something else, but I would think you'd want them a bit tighter if this is the method your choosing in your case construction. I have just recently completed a case that was dovetailed together in a similar fashion, the overhang of the top and bottom of the case. It was tedius work on the large scale compared to drawer dt's or case dt's that get covered up. These are on display and had to be perfect. I will post pics soon.

Anyways, your cabinet should turn out great with those choice of woods especially if using Krenov as your inspiration. Good luck and take your time.

[John A. Callaway]

thanks for all the replies guys... I hadnt thought about ripping it out and doing a glue up... Hmmm... dont know what to do... Since I cut it today ... I think I will give it a week to see if it decides to change its shape any. If it does, i will do some glue ups... If not, I may just run with it.

Sorry about the spelling...

and the half blinds... thanks for the tips. I will cut several more sets before I go to the project parts with the tools...

I have done regular dovertails till I was blue in the face. I think I have them down ...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/trainman0978/DSCN2653.jpg

And here is a quick mock up of the cabinet I am going to start working on in the next few weeks...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/trainman0978/DSCN2725.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/trainman0978/DSCN2727.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/trainman0978/DSCN2730.jpg

[Tony Shea]

That is a nice peice of maple you've got there. Now I remember that under the bench tool storage. The bench that sits in the dining room if I remember correctly, thats some good stuff. Wish I could get away with putting my bench upstairs, wont happen until hell freezes over though. Good luck.

[John A. Callaway]

thats right. I showed my wife where Chris Schwarz wrote about how he hoped to eventually move his bench into the house so he could be around his family more.... she didnt buy it. My only saving grace right now is the lack of a garage... but I also can't have things like a band saw until we move... and the dining room is starting to get sort of crowded... but it works.

[John Goodridge]

It is an issue of risk management. What is the cost (in money, time, grief) to replace or cut and glue the stock to remove the pith vs what is cost to have it crack after you have spent the time and effort to build your piece. There is also the probability of it cracking. Of the pieces in the photo the lower left and upper right have what look like radial cracks already. I would guess it will likely crack over time. I would suggest removing the pith now.

[David Keller NC]

Ditto what John said - Don't use those boards with the pith intact - they are highly, highly likely to crack along the pith line with a few years of moisture changes.

If you've the width, you should be able to get a stellar grain match by sawing out the pith and gluing the boards back together. Since they're quarter-sawn, there's no cathedral figure that needs to be pieced back together, which is usually impossible and is one reason cheap, random-width panels glued from narrow flatsawn boards looks so bad.

[John A. Callaway]

I think I am going to cut them up and do glue up. I noticed three of them already have cracks starting in the middle of these pieces. all are only 7 inches wide and 11 to 14 inches long.

thanks guys.

Also... must have tool of the day... cabinet scraper.

going to head by savannah tool house and pick one up in the next few days...

some of this walnut has some extreme grain changes in few small areas...
the number three spotted them rather quickly.