Need to fix my Dai

[Jim Belair]

So I decided to try out a japanese smoothing plane. As it was my first, I went with a basic Fuunji from JWW. http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=17.202.65&dept_id=12940

Better to learn by tuning a $50 kanna than a $300 one I'm told (my wallet agrees). The Fuunjis have mixed reviews with most complaints regarding blade lamination flaws. My blade seems fine. Sharpens up like nothing I've encountered before. Hairs seem to jump off my arm when they see that puppy coming.

The problem- in adjusting the fit of the blade in the dai I removed a bit too much material on one side. I can secure the blade in position using the secondary iron but my understanding is that it should be held tightly on its own. (Is this correct?)

I've seen instructions that call for a paper shim to correct this but I'd like a more permanent solution that won't fall out when removing the blade for sharpening. Maybe a sliver of veneer and then adjust to proper fit? Or build the bed up with a bit of epoxy and refit?

I'm sure I can figure out something that will work but just wanted some other opinions/ideas. Seems a fine line between too tight and oops :o

Thanks
Jim B

[Jim Koepke]

I always like the ideas that are easily undone.

That way if they do not work out, nothing is lost but a little effort.

A paper shim is easy to hold in place when removing and replacing a blade. If needed, a little bit of shellac, lacquer or varnish can hold the paper to the blade to make it removable if desired.

jtk

[David Weaver]

The iron should go in with hand pressure until it is *almost* fully seated. That gives you a little room for error with seasonal variation, and you will notice that it's tighter in the summer if that's your humid season (at least I do).

I have two of those planes. The dai was better on one than the other, but both are functional. The irons on them, if there is no lamination problem, are VERY high quality for a plane of that price, they just are not as well prepared as the high dollar irons, and mine are not as hard (though they are plenty hard compared to western irons), nor is the lamination as thin or elegant. High dollar planes will have an iron that has been flattened by the maker, and prep is pretty much nonexistent other than a quick polish and ahone (at least in my experience). I would say the irons feel a lot like good quality cast steel irons except in my opinion, the steel even better and more keen and harder than old western planes.

Paper is a good solution, it doesn't compress as much as veneer or card stock, though I don't know if it matters - anything that works is fine. I've used paper before on the funjii plane that the dai was a bit oversized to start. I don't use those two planes much now, but the expensive planes do no better job in terms of surface quality, and paper solves the problem. The shine left behind is very hard to match with a western plane.

What did you use to prepare the bed? A blunted chisel like Bill Carter uses on infill planes is a nice tool to have for preparing the bed of a japanese plane, you have a lot of control over material removal with it, and can take a very light cut if you want. He hones the edge at 90 degrees and I think he rehardens the chisel and doesn't temper so much hardness back out of it (which wouldn't be necessary for an oak dai). It is essentially a push scraper then instead of a chisel. The same could be done with the end of a mill file.

Floats and scrapers allow you to do more accurate work than chisels and rasps.

[Jim Belair]

I prepped the bed using a paring chisel and a file David. I've since found a broken chisel that I intend to make into a mini scraper.

Just tried the fit again and it looks like a couple of layers of notebook paper is about right. You're right about being able to undo a fix Jim. I'll try a little shellac to hold the paper in place.

Glad to know this plane can perform well. I certainly am impressed with the surface luster that results.

The secondary iron is still a bit of a mystery to me. There's barely enough room for it between the blade and the cross pin even if I were to take all the "wedge" out of it. And the cross pin is slightly out of parallel with the bed. I don't think it is supposed to extend right into the mouth like a conventional chipbreaker. Don't some kanna dispense with this secondary blade altogether?

Thanks guys
Jim B

[Robert Rozaieski]

Jim,
Here's a great four part blog on setting up and maintaining a kanna. Note, this is not my blog. I don't use Japanese tools at all, but my buddy Wilbur does.

Part I (http://giantcypress.net/post/1372899131/japanese-plane-set-up-i-fitting-the-blade#disqus_thread)
Part II (http://giantcypress.net/post/1422532807/japanese-plane-set-up-ii-sole-conditioning#disqus_thread)
Part III (http://giantcypress.net/post/1468442719/japanese-plane-set-up-iii-final-tweaks#disqus_thread)
Part IV (http://giantcypress.net/post/1581124196/japanese-plane-set-up-iv-maintenance#disqus_thread)

[David Weaver]

Don't some kanna dispense with this secondary blade altogether?

Thanks guys
Jim B

there are plenty of japanese woodworkers who don't use one at all, and not inexperienced folks.

If the iron is bedded properly, it's not necessary, and for it to do anything other than aiding in pushing chips out of the plane, it has to be just about right on top of the edge.

If you can't bend/adjust the tabs at the top corner of the second iron / chipbreaker to fit properly, and they're literally all the way flat, then the pin wasn't positioned properly.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Jim, there are two types of Japanese planes. One with wedge (uragane) and one without. If one comes with a wedge, it is designed to have it. You aren't supposed to setup your plane like the one without wedge.

As for wedge, you set it up close to the edge like a cap iron. If your plane has it, the idea is the same. There isn't anywhere else you can properly align leading edge of the wedge to other than close to the cutting edge as there is very little flat area on the back of the blade.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Jim, there are two types of Japanese planes. One with wedge (uragane) and one without. ...

Don't forget those with and without landings.

Jim, I'd suggest removing the sub blade for the moment; and if you go the shim route, paper or wood slice, be sure and split the difference between the two abutments rather than just a single patch. This is important because of the swelling required as part of the bedding angle part of the dai to fit the ura of the blade and keep the blade centered in the dai.

Also, a paring chisel works just fine, especially if you use it bevel down, which provides much more control for taking off very small amounts. Now if you want to make molding planes, worry about floats and the like.

Pam

[Chris Vandiver]

Postage stamps make great shims for kanna. Plus, you can use cool stamps, if you choose to.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Postage stamps make great shims for kanna. Plus, you can use cool stamps, if you choose to.

I had no idea, pretty cool idea, glue is built in. How does the size of stamps help/hinder?

Pam

[Chris Vandiver]

There are plenty of differnt size stamps to choose from. I suppose you could even double up on them, if need be.

[Jim Belair]

I've got some Japanese stamps I plan to use for true authenticity!

Thanks for all the input
Jim B