What is the best furniture finish?

[Mark Zachmann]

Hi All,

I build random furniture (tables, desks, lamps) and really would like to settle on a finish.

Lately I've been using tung oil or BLO as a 'pop' finish and then I cover it with Shellac (either sprayed on hvlp or french polished). I like the oil pop and love working with Shellac because it dries so quickly and is pretty...

but, those lots of coats take lots of time and I always have to sand the shellac fairly seriously and do 2 (usually 3) reapplications. Everyone who comes to visit always does the finger test (run finger along top - is it really smooth?) and shellac tends to fail unless I french polish really carefully.

Anyway, I'm looking for a better (easier) finish that produces long-lasting results and is still pretty easy to repair like shellac or so hard that it doesn't need repairing. I prefer a gloss or satin. Shellac with a more foolproof (smooth) method would ok.

Things I've used:

1) BLO/varnish mixture
2) Tung Oil alone
3) Shellac alone (all kinds of colors)
4) oil/shellac coats
5) Target poly (wiped on, brushed on, sprayed on - your choice)

I'm starting to think about lacquers.

Anyone have strong opinions?

I've include a couple of examples. The bird table is cherry, the side table is maple/mahogany.

Thanks,
Mark

[Chris Fournier]

There is absolutley no one best finish for furniture.

What's the best car out there? Ferrari? Not for groccery shopping but great on the track. Finishes are the same way - they are suited to specific applications and application methods.

Given your preference for your current finish regimen I'd suggest that you look into making your own wiping varnish. You'll have the beauty of a BLO finish with the benfits of a film build that can be applied by any number of methods (you can spray) and will better protect your furniture than shellac.

There are some very fast drying varnishes out there. Varnish can be repaired quite easily and effectively. Lacquer less so.

Quite an excellent shelf life also.

[Scott Holmes]

Mark,

As stated there is no one finish for all applications. Varnish is pretty good on most furniture (NOT polyurethane varnish). A wiping varnish (made by mixing mineral spirits with varnish about 50/50) is almost fool proof.

An in-the-wood oil/varnish blend is also good. No film build possible.

Shellac is wonderful. I noticed that you talked about builing up the shellac... BAD IDEA!

The perfect shellac finish is the thinnest film coating that is flawless. Building shellac as you would varnish or lacquer is a receipe for failure. The thick shellac coat will alligator.

FYI - "Padding" shellac and "French Polish" are two different things... the latter uses pumice to cut the wood and create a sanding slurry to fill the grain with pumice and sawdust. Padding is wiping shellac on the surface; also, used in the final steps of a French Polish.

[Mark Zachmann]

Thanks for the feedback. I have a couple of questions...

I do like shellac but almost everything I've read talks about multiple coats of shellac (ranging from 3-10 in some cases). So if it isn't going on in a 'thick' coat eventually what is happening? Since the shellac just adds volume with each coat aren't you trying to build a coat thick enough to cover the pores and be sanded smooth?

I'm dumb - what's 'alligator'?

Question about the french polishing - i've both padded and polished. I didn't really like the pumice-in-grain end result and figured more shellac would just fill the grain while retaining clarity. Sounds like I'm wrong about that. Do you think hvlp spraying works as well as polishing (or padding)?

My experience with varnishes is with random big-box varnishes which seem to really obscure the grain. Have you got a better recommendation for something with lots of clarity?

Thanks again.

Mark

[Chris Fournier]

Mark,

As stated there is no one finish for all applications. Varnish is pretty good on most furniture (NOT polyurethane varnish). A wiping varnish (made by mixing mineral spirits with varnish about 50/50) is almost fool proof.

An in-the-wood oil/varnish blend is also good. No film build possible.

Shellac is wonderful. I noticed that you talked about builing up the shellac... BAD IDEA!

The perfect shellac finish is the thinnest film coating that is flawless. Building shellac as you would varnish or lacquer is a receipe for failure. The thick shellac coat will alligator.

FYI - "Padding" shellac and "French Polish" are two different things... the latter uses pumice to cut the wood and create a sanding slurry to fill the grain with pumice and sawdust. Padding is wiping shellac on the surface; also, used in the final steps of a French Polish.

I like to make my wiping varnish by adding the varnish to a BLO, mineral spirits and japan dryer mixture. You can add the solids of the varnish gradually to move from more of a penetrating finish to a film builder.

An "all in the wood" oil and varnish blend is indeed film building, it just may not be a closed pore finish.

[Scott Holmes]

Chris,

try this little test...

Apply a thin layer of your oil/varnish blend to a piece of glass; allow it a few days to dry. Now scrape it with your fingernail and tell me how efective is the "film" built on surface?

Wiping varnish is varnish and thinner only (Jap drier is a fast drying thinner) It will dry hard and clear/amber on a glass surface.

Oil varnish blend is an in the wood finish ~1/3 oil, ~1/3 varnish, 1/3 thinner.

[Chris Fournier]

Your hard and fast formulas come from where?

What is the point that you are proving with your glass/scratch test?

I'm sure that you're familiar with the terms "short oil" and "long oil".

A film is a film regardless of how hard it is. Think of the film on your teeth in the morning. While it isn't great as a protector of wood it is indeed a film and should it be placed on glass it would perform even worse than a long oil finish.

Hard does not a film make.

[Steve Schoene]

Sure you can let an oil/varnish mix build a film. But if you do the softness becomes important. Yes soft can make a film, only it isn't a very good film. It can attract dirt, scratches easily (so do some very hard films too, like shellac) and doesn't point of the test on glass to simply to demonstrate how soft an oil/varnish film is. It's just as soft on the glass as it is on wood. It's softer than the wood so doesn't harden the wood.

Heating it up with Japan drier (as in a dumb Roland Johnson article in FWW) doesn't really help. It might make it "harder" but not necessarily in a good way, often a tendancy to brittleness way. Manufacturers use some science in choosing the driers they add to varnishes. They also don't tell you, at least not often, what driers or other additives they have used. Adding your own driers in Japan driers is just pure guesswork as to whether they will be compatible.

Adding oil to a varnish does NOT make it into a long oil varnish. The term refers to different ratios of oil and resin used by the manufacturer when "cooking" the varnish. After it has left the manufacturer we can only MIX it with other things, not change the type of varnish.

[Chris Fournier]

http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00060.asp

I think that this article would support my posts as would experience.

[Scott Holmes]

Hi Chris,

I read the entire article. "Traditionally, woodworkers have turned to oil, wax or oil and varnish blends (such as Watco) for a natural-looking finish. None of these easy-to-apply finishes dries to form a hard surface film. However, you can get a natural-looking effect with any finish -- including varnish, shellac and lacquer -- as long as you don't build it up more than a few coats and you rub out the dried film with steel wool. But if your goal is a filled-pore, deep, lustrous finish, you must use a hard, film-forming finish (varnish, shellac or lacquer). This type of finish is also mandatory when you have to perform complex coloring options like toning and glazing.


Emphasis added That is my point!

[Chris Fournier]

We're in agreement somwhat. The hardness of the oil varnish blend has everything to do with the ratio of solids to oil.

I've made several hundred fly-fishing landing nets as in my avatar and I can assure you that they have a hard film finish that doesn't collect dirt and it is an oil and varnish finish over BLO.

When I was first messing about with various varnishes and oils I did a lot of film testing and other destructive tests to evaluate the finish. I've done the same testing with all of the lacquers that I've sprayed over the years. I agree with you that testing is critical.

The OP did not specify that he wanted a closed pore finish. If he had I would have recommended lacquer, varnish or french polishing with schellac.

He asked for "POP" and protection superior to shellac as well as mentioning that he wants to sand less. I maintain that my suggestions will get him there.

[Scott Holmes]

hi Chris,

your avatar is too small for me to see what it is and I can't seem to make it larger.

Since you are using this finish in an "exterior" type application I fully agree that the soft (compared to varnish only) film is a great choice or your application.

[Steve Schoene]

Still, there is no point in mixing oil into varnish when looking for longevity and durability. Your landing nets would be better finished you had used only a long oil varnish--ie. spar varnish, designed to deal with the flexibilty of the net hoops. And, thinned sufficiently, it could have been applied with almost the same ease as the oil/varnish mixes.

[Scott Holmes]

Steve is right an exterior marine varnish (non-poly) would be better; your system is working.

Chris, How often do you need to refresh the finish?

[Steve Schoene]

Nets can be made and used quite well with an "in-the-wood" oil/varnish finish, applied and wiped off so no meaningful film is achieved, or they can be made a little dressier with a spar varnish finish, which in the sceme of things is still a pretty soft varnish. I see no point in an "in-between" film softer than the spar varnish. Franky most nets would never need more flexibility than could be easily handled with a bit harder varnish such as waterlox.

I've not made hundreds but a few, for myself and for a local Trout Unlimited fund raising auction.

[Chris Fournier]

I wouldn't use anything but spar varnish on my nets.

If you play around with this finish long enough you'll find that there are many benefits to adding oil as well as solvent and japan dryer to the spar varnish, in different ratios for different sequential coats in the finishing process of course.

Getting a sprayed or brushed coat to level nicely without sagging but obtaining enough build can be a bit of a tightrope act. Once you've got that proper wet coat applied you want it to "dry" fast enough to be dust proof. My nets have to hang to dry rather than being laid flat so runs can occur all too easily.

While this net varnish finish certainly doesn't buff out like a 3 week old NC lacquer finish it does respond very nicely to machine buffing after some curing time.

I've only had to refinish the "shovel" or bottom of the hoop portion of my nets because I use the fine nylon bag as an insect sein and place the hoop into the river bottom which is a bit tough on the finish after a few seasons. I have tried varnish over epoxy (only on the "shovel") to make the net bulletproof but the process is too expensive from a manufacturing standpoint.

Better details of nets: http://www.cflandingnets.com

[Chris Fournier]

Still, there is no point in mixing oil into varnish when looking for longevity and durability. Your landing nets would be better finished you had used only a long oil varnish--ie. spar varnish, designed to deal with the flexibilty of the net hoops. And, thinned sufficiently, it could have been applied with almost the same ease as the oil/varnish mixes.

I never stated that I mixed my finish to achieve superior longevity or durability. I stated that I mixed my particular "potion" to get a good finish given my chosen application methods. In service the outcome and the performance of the finish on the hundreds of nets that I've made have validated my methods.