Stairway guard rail design ideas

[Sean Rainaldi]

Hi there,

Well I am finishing up my huge remodel project in the front of our home, the last step is designing and building a guard rail for our basement stair well. The rail will have to enclose two open sides of the stair well. The stairs run along a foundation wall so there are only the two sides that need to be surrounded by the guard, and the well measures 40" wide by 104" long.

I live in Michigan so I understand the code states the rail needs to be a minimum height of 36" and a ball not larger than 4" can pass through either the bottom rail parallel to the floor or between the balusters.


So I am thinking of a simple design, just plain hard maple balusters, not turned just square with rounded edges and square posts and maybe rectangular rails holding the square balusters.

I am thinking of placing one post at the corner of the open deep end, and attaching the short 40" end to the wall.

So for the 104" run, how many vertical posts would you folks recommend placing along the 104” run? I was thinking just three - the corner post where the two rails meet, one in the middle at 52” and then a third post at the top of the stairs. Would this be structurally sufficient?

Also what thickness of vertical post should I use? I was planning on doing a simple design, out of hard maple, doing square posts with a 1/4 inch quarter round over. Would 2" square be enough or do I need to do 3 or 4 inches?

We have 3/4 inch. 6" wide pine boards as sub floor under 3/4 inch white oak flooring, 1.5 inches thick total. I was thinking of setting the vertical posts into a mortised oversized block - ¾ or 1” thick, gluing- screwing to the block, and then screwing the block/posts into the floor - but would bolting the posts through the floor be better for strength?

Thanks for any ideas.



40" wide by 104" long

[Jamie Buxton]

The newel post is likely to get big leverage on it. If you just anchor it to the floor, it may fail over the years. It is better if you can continue it through the floor and anchor it to the floor joists, or to the post/wall in the basement that is holding up the floor.

[Richard Wolf]

First, run your balusters to the floor instead of using a sub rail if at all possible. The sub rail never is a good look on an interior rail. Your square balusters should measure 1 1/4" square and your post should be a minimum of 3" square.
Jamie's right about anchoring the end newel post. You also need to make sure the middle newel is well anchored because it is subject to a lot of lateral force. Get them anchored into the floor.

Richard

[Sean Rainaldi]

Thanks you 2.

I like the idea of attaching the balusters directly to the floor it will look nicer. Richard or anyone, for the balusters then, would you suggest I directly attach them to the floor between the newels, or instead directly attach maybe a 2 or 2.25 inch wide guide rail to the floor in which to mount the bottom ends of the balusters into? I could run a dado slot along the length of the rail to mount the balusters into - simple construction.

What do you think?

[Richard Wolf]

The only time I use a sub rail on the floor is with tile or a concrete slab. I will PL a sub rail to mount the balusters into. If you have a flooring material which you can drill into, mount them directly into the floor.

[John Morrison60]

Sean

I also live in Michigan, (Livonia) and I would caution you to speak to your local building
department about your rail (If it will be inspected)
I was doing a small addition, and with the building permit came a requirement to update
the smoke detector system to the new networked type in all bedrooms.
When the inspector was looking at the smokes, he went into areas of my house not involved
in the construction, and then failed the final building inspection for an inadequate hand rail.
Among their requirements was that it be 34" to 38" high from the nose of each tread.
The 6.2" maximum circumference for the hand rail is also required.

That was a problem for me, due to the open stairwell divided by short walls, but the inspector
just wrote the inspection fail note.
I am currently building custom handrails to meet their requirement.
Moral of the story, the requirements can change from locale to locale.

Good luck
John

[John TenEyck]

I built a several ballustrades recently, some curved, some straight, some for a balcony, some for a stair well. The codes differ for balconies vs. stair wells, in NY and probably elsewhere. You should be able to find the over arching code requirements online, and then confirm them with your local building inspector. I had limitations on how I could attach the newel posts because the framers didn't consider those requirements when they did the framing. Surprise, surprise. I tried attaching the posts to the floor/subfloor, as you original posted, but quickly found that was completely inadequate, as others have said. I ended up ripping up some of the flooring and adding structure between the joists so that I could lag bolt to something solid. If you have access from below, it's best to just extend your newel through the floor and bolt/pin it from below, again, as others have said. With hand rails, anything you can buy at the local BORG should be code compliant. I built some custom railings, that did not meet the standard code. But there are two classes of rails, one below a certain circumference, and one above it. For ones above, the rail has to be "graspable", and there is a definition of what meets that requirement. Basically, it involves milling a finger recess into the sides of the railings, which is what I did. There also are codes related to how far the railing has to sit away from the wall. Handrails in stairwells also must have ends that return to the wall so that clothing, etc. won't catch on an open end. Anyway, this is all in the codes, which I got online for NYS. I also learned a lot by buying a couple of stair building books. Good luck.

Pics of what I made, in case you might be interested: http://picasaweb.google.com/JohnTenEyck54/StairRailingNeal2009?feat=directlink

[Sean Rainaldi]

The only time I use a sub rail on the floor is with tile or a concrete slab. I will PL a sub rail to mount the balusters into. If you have a flooring material which you can drill into, mount them directly into the floor.

Richard, not sure what you mean by PL?

I do have white oak Tongue and Groove flooring - you mean just mount the balusters right to the flooring?

[Sean Rainaldi]

Thanks to the 2 Johns!

Nice work John 2.

By the way I went over the State of Michigan codes in detail - familiar with the hand rail requirement and guard rail info - height and blauster spacing etc.

My floor joists are 2 x 8 so I will either be bolting posts with carriage bolts or lag screws and gluing them to the Joists - will extend the posts 7" below the sub floor to bolt to joists. Think that is adequate? OH - should I not glue the posts - just bolt them in? What diameter lag screw or bolt would you reccomend?

I think I will just use solid 3" square posts and do a 3//8" roundover, either hard maple or white oak, have not decided on that yet. Something clean and simple. I don't have a lathe yet but do want to mill the parts myself.

[Richard Wolf]

Richard, not sure what you mean by PL?

I do have white oak Tongue and Groove flooring - you mean just mount the balusters right to the flooring?

Pl= PL construction adhesive. Yes, just mount the balusters directly on the floor.

[Van Huskey]

Sean


When the inspector was looking at the smokes, he went into areas of my house not involved
in the construction, and then failed the final building inspection for an inadequate hand rail.

John

OUCH. That had to hurt!

[Sean Rainaldi]

Hi there,

Finally installing the guard rail as per all above reccomendations with one exception - just wanted to get anyone's input on this.

The only difference, I found two absolutely beautiful spalted maple logs, and was able to get my four required posts out of it, the only issue I may be comcerned about in years to come, the largest size I could get the 4 posts down to was to 2 1/2 thick by 2 7/8" wide. I realize above that the minimum reccomended post size is 3 x 3 but Frankly I don't really care because the posts are so beautiful.

This is my question though, obviously maple is stronger than pine and was wondering if you think an inspector would take that into consideration...because a 2 1/2" x 2 7/8" maple post is most likely as strong as a slightly larger pine post. The posts I made are not turned, just simple rectangular posts with a 1/4" round over on the edges...very heavy compared to a same sized pine post.

I am lagging the posts by the way with 5 1/2 inch 1/2 inch lag screws to the floor joists...

[Tom Ewell]

In my area there is a minimum lateral force requirement (lbs force vs deflection) along with the other stuff, if your system meets the code in all aspects it doesn't matter how it's contstructed. (presuming no substandard attachment details)

If the rail system looks "odd" (design wise) the inspector may actually test for all code requirements, most around here check measurements and "bump" into the system for the lateral check.

1/2" bolts may be overkill but have at it if they don't split up your framing and weaken the newels. If you have the access, might consider through bolting.

[Sean Rainaldi]

1/2" bolts may be overkill but have at it if they don't split up your framing and weaken the newels. If you have the access, might consider through bolting.

thanks...I pre drilled with a 3/8" bit so only the threads are cutting wood.