PDA

View Full Version : ULS Air assist compressor recommendation



Joseph Tovar
11-21-2010, 7:45 PM
Hi all,

I've gone through a bunch of the older post regarding the air assist and compressors, but it's got me a little confused since I seen people use their huge air tool compressors, little air brush compressors, and even tiny fish tank compressors.

I was told by ULS that I need to have something that puts out 2.5CFM @ 50PSI. Almost every compressor I've seen had a regulator to control the PSI, but I'm not sure on how to control the CFM. My wife has a little airbrush compressor that is 1/10hp and delivers .5cfm at 20 psi. Here's the specs:
http://www.paascheairbrush.com/2008pdf/D500%20Air%20Comp.%20Parts%20List.pdf

Since this doesn't meet the requirements I started shopping around. I stopped by Home Depot today and saw this one(Husky Air Scout):
http://www.krillion.com/xNPCSZ-Husky-41214-San_Francisco-CA-94103;jsessionid=6BD29E21026D341704CB5493DEE6FB94. browser1

and this water/particle filter:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xhi/R-100027474/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Would the Husky Air Scout and that filter work fine for the ULS Air Assist? The compressor says "2.0 SCFM at 90 PSI, 3.0 SCFM at 40 PSI" so I'd assume that at 50 PSI, I should get close to the 2.5 CFM rating, correct?

Or if anyone has any other suggestions, I'm open. Of course quieter the better, but for me it's mostly about keeping the compress small.

I guess that I should point out that I also have a larger compressor that I use with my air tools. It would probably do the job, but it's larger and something I don't want to drag around(it's in the garage and I'm my workshop). Also, as mentioned above, I can control the PSI, but not sure about controlling the CFM.

Dan Hintz
11-21-2010, 7:48 PM
Those are max ratings. I usually run mine around 10psi... CFM at that low of pressure is pretty much irrelevant.

Gary Hair
11-21-2010, 7:55 PM
You don't need to control the cfm, that spec is the minimum that it requires. You could be putting out 100cfm and it's fine, you just need at least 2.5. I would suggest getting a small oil bath compressor, stay away from oilless, they are way too loud. I am fortunate enough to have a large compressor used for sandcarving and I just ran a line from it to supply my laser.

Gary

Joe Pelonio
11-21-2010, 8:03 PM
That airbrush compressor should work fine. I use a cheaper one at about 25 lbs. and it's worked great for me, going on 5 years now.

Scott Shepherd
11-21-2010, 8:05 PM
Joe, the airbrush won't work, the ULS is different as it has air shields on all the mirrors. You need more than that.

Use your large air compressor and pipe it in. Not sure what you're situation is, but I had that water trap along with the one with the small beads in it. I couldn't run it for long before they were both saturated. It just depended on what time of year it was and what the humidity level was.

I finally just got a proper refridgerated drier.

If you use the one you mentioned, you need to add to it, one of the one with the beads in it. The real enemy here is not CFM, it's water.

One single drop of water getting through the system and it could damage or break every mirror and lens in the machine since it's using an air shield to protect all the mirrors from dust.

So go overboard on the water part, ignore the CFM part a little.

Just know that some of the smaller compressors may show the right numbers, but they are rated for a 50% duty cycle. So it can't have a small tank or it'll just run and run, which will burn it up. I found out about duty cycles the hard way, and AFTER buying the compressor. I think we're on our 3rd or 4th compressor now and I have another compressor with an 80 gallon tank sitting here waiting for me to hook up.

Just remember.....Water.....BAD.

Joseph Tovar
11-21-2010, 8:36 PM
Ok...So I think I got it. I just need to make sure that I have a minimum 2.5cfm rating and that I set my regulator to 50PSI, correct?

So here's my current air compressor that I use fro my tools...It's similar to this one, but older:
http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/chPrd3_10051_10001_96115_-1_10646_10692_

If I decide to use this one, I can do what someone mentioned in the other posts. Turn it on and let it fill up in about 5-10 mins then just shut it off an it should last awhile without running.

If I do use it, which filters should I get? I'm looking for something local at a Home Depot, Sears, or Lowes. I know it needs to keep moisture and particulants out of the hose, but is one better than the other? Do I need seperate filters, or can I get one of the combos? Would these work:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM1684064601P?prdNo=4

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00916009000P?prdNo=1

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xhi/R-100671463/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I guess the last thing I need to do is make sure all my hoses, filters, etc can all connect to eac other and the back of the laser.

Joe Pelonio
11-21-2010, 9:17 PM
Joe, the airbrush won't work, the ULS is different as it has air shields on all the mirrors. You need more than that.


Ah, didn't know that. Too bad, that means a lot of noise unless it's located outside or in the garage.

Richard Rumancik
11-22-2010, 12:21 AM
Joseph

I'm not sure if any of these will be suitable on their own, if you want to get the water out. They say:

"CHP1337: Get maximum filtration while using this Standard Series Campbell Hausfeld Air Filter. This air filter removes unwanted dirt particles and condensed water to extend the life of your tools"

"Craftsman Heavy Duty Air Line Filter has full flow ports to allow maximum air flow. Provides efficient water and particle removal and features an easy to read water level indicator."

"The filter / regulator combines a general purpose filter with a pressure regulator in one compact unit. The filter is designed to remove most liquid and solid particles from the air supply."

The problem is that they will remove condensed water but not water vapor in the air. If the water vapor gets through and condenses later, you can have problems as Scott noted.

As an "entry level" solution I would suggest a desiccant dryer. (If you decide to use a refrigerated dryer like Scott, that may be optimum.) But if you need a less expensive solution I would suggest the following:

From your compressor tank, attach 25-50 feet of flexible tubing wrapped around a cylinder vertically. Input air at top, exit air at bottom. The purpose of this tube is to cool the air. Water droplets will collect in the tube and flow to the bottom. You need suitable plumbing to capture and drain the condensate.

Then take this air and run it through a desiccant dryer like this one at Harbour Freight:

http://www.harborfreight.com/desiccant-air-dryer-97686.html

You can decide what kind of desiccant medium you want to use.

After the desiccant dryer, then you can run another particulate/water filter like you showed. Finally connect this to the air regulator. The output of the regulator can then connect to the laser system.

If you use the Harbour Freight unit you can actually use 25 or 50 feet of self-coiling air hose and wrap it around the body of the HF desiccant dryer. This makes a nice package. Attached is a mark-up of the HF connection instructions, showing what I mean.

Joseph Tovar
11-22-2010, 1:36 AM
OK..I think I might have it now. Just to be clear, I edited the file a bit. I saw the X's on it, but didn't realize you meant to ignore those hoses and reattached the other one that's coiled around it. Attached is the new image.

Why do you have to have a regulator after the filter? I thought you regulate the pressure from the compressor. Is this just an option? Also, Why is so much hose required?

Can something like this replace the whole 25-50' of hose, plus the dryer, filters, etc?
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100671461&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&cm_sp=BazVoice-_-RLP-_-100671461-_-x&locStoreNum=159&marketID=1

I'm hoping to have something as simple as:
Compressor-->Filter/Dryer-->laser. I don't have a lot of room left in the workshop so I'm trying to keep everything compact in one small area. I think if I use the filter above, I'll still need the moisture/particle filter after it.

Is there any benifit of the dryer above compared to the $39.99 one at harbor Frieght?

Wow...I didn't know using the air assist needed so much additioanal setup.

Dan Hintz
11-22-2010, 6:13 AM
Joseph,

I have a desiccant pack hooked up to my line... but I got tired of changing it, so I continue to run with the same set of beads. Of course, I have a dehumidifier in the room, so I probably don't even need those... it's liquid water that's the issue, and there's never enough to capture, let alone enough to make it through the line.

You would only set your regulator to 50psi if that's what you want to run the laser at (this is the max the piping in the laser is designed to handle, but you do not need to actually run at that pressure... it's a surprising amount of air). I set my laser's regulator at 10 psi, and I'll turn the pump's regulator to something like 20.

Richard Rumancik
11-22-2010, 2:09 PM
. . . I saw the X's on it, but didn't realize you meant to ignore those hoses and reattached the other one that's coiled around it. Attached is the new image.

Your revised sketch is what I meant. I crossed out the old hose so you could see the "before" pic. Note that they asked for 25 feet hose to pre-cool the air but it is not well explained that you need to place it so gravity will drain it properly. Some people use black pipe to plumb their shop and pre-cool using that.


Why do you have to have a regulator after the filter? I thought you regulate the pressure from the compressor. Is this just an option? Also, Why is so much hose required?

If there is one on the laser itself then you do not need the second one. I'd want to see what the pressure actually is when I am beside my laser, so I'd prefer have the regulator and gage near the laser even if there is one on the compressor. There will be pressure drop from the compressor, through the dryer, particulate filters, etc so I prefer to know the pressure at the laser as well.


Can something like this replace the whole 25-50' of hose, plus the dryer, filters, etc? (pic form Home depot).
I'm hoping to have something as simple as:
Compressor-->Filter/Dryer-->laser. I don't have a lot of room left in the workshop so I'm trying to keep everything compact in one small area. I think if I use the filter above, I'll still need the moisture/particle filter after it.?

The long coiled hose acts as a cooler for the warm compressor air. If you get much of the moisture out BEFORE it gets to the dryer you will save your desiccant from getting saturated right away. There has to be a way to drain the condensate out of the tubing. A long hose on the floor won't do anything. Tubing is an inexpensive way to pre-dry the air - even the Harbour Freight instruction asks for it. You can mount this on a wall so it won't take much room. You need to be able to reach it to drain water and change desiccant. You could have the pre-dryer close to the compressor if there is more room there. A tube coiled around plastic pipe would work. If it is colder near the compressor than inside the laser shop, it may even work better, as the moisture would condense when it hits the cold tube (like a natural refrigeration air dryer.) Pumping the compressed air into an intermediate storage tank can also work in a similar way to the long hose, as long as there is a drain on the tank. Water vapor will condense on the inside walls of the tank. The cooler the tank the better.


Is there any benifit of the dryer above compared to the $39.99 one at harbor Frieght? The one you link to is probably fine, but of course the more desiccant you have the longer you will run without replacing or regenerating it. (You can bake some desiccants and re-use them.)


Wow...I didn't know using the air assist needed so much additioanal setup. Some people use a simple setup and get away with it. If your system is prone to damage from moisture in the air I would be less likely to gamble. One lens can cost more than the whole dryer system.

Joseph Tovar
11-27-2010, 10:48 PM
I finally purchased everything I need...

-Compressor from Home Depot (BF Sale) 6 Gallon Porter Cable $99
-Desiccant Dryer from harbor Freight $39.99
-Silica 2.2lbs $4,99
-Particulant Filter/Moisture filter from Lowes $12.99

I still have a couple of questions though...

1) Does it matter if the Particulant/Moisture filter goes before or after the dryer? I would think that you want as much moisture/debris removed before you go though the dryer...or does it matter?

2)While at Lowes, they had an inline desiccant filter(about 4" long) for $7.99. Could this be used instead of the larger Desiccant dryer I purchased from Harbor Freight? Besides being smaller, what's the difference. The only thing I can forsee would be changing out the sillica more often since it's smaller. Is there any other difference?

3)Why does the SCFM rating go up as the PSI value goes down? For example, 2.3scfm @ 90psi, 3.6scfm @ 40psi? Some of the smaller ones were like .6scfm @ 90psi, 1.0scfm @ 40psi.

4)I think Richard commented on this, but just to be sure...Could I have just purchased a 3 gallon tank and then filled it from my main compressor in the garage? I looked at some of the tanks, but they only specify a PSI rating, not a cfm. I wasn't sure if this was something I could have done.

I searched around and saw many compressors on sale after Thanksgiving, even small ones that I though would fit nicely...the only problem were that they only put out 1 cfm at 40psi. And according to the ULS specs, that wasn't good enough. Here's one I wanted to get, but didn't meet the specs:
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-gallon-100-psi-oilless-pancake-air-compressor-95275.html

Scott Shepherd
11-28-2010, 9:07 AM
Depending on your climate, the small one might work, over the larger one you bought. I had in an office, in Virginia, and at a certain time of the year, it would fill that little $7.99 thing up with water completely in about 1 hour. So I was getting 1 hour per set of beads, which is what caused me to go to the drier. Then my compressor died, I bought a new, larger one, then I moved into a large shop, so I have a larger compressor now, in the back, feeding air.

I don't think you needed any new compressor. If possible, I'd take the air from the compressor you already own.

One thing you need to watch, and some people tell me I'm crazy and it can't happen, is do NOT run the laser with the nose cone on and the air OFF. It sucks debris up the nose cone and sticks to the lens. You can damage your lens in a matter of minutes. And by damage, I mean destroy (crack).

I've been told it's not possible, but I've mistakenly done it a few times, by forgetting to turn the air on for that color line, and then realizing it once it was running. It's not a good thing. So just be careful with that.

Never run the machine with the nose cone on and the air off.

Zvi Grinberg
11-28-2010, 10:33 AM
The newer UCP versions ("the driver" or Universal Control Panel) have a feature called "detect air pressure" - under system tab.

Use this option if you tend to forget to turn on the compressor. It would prevent the job from starting, and will keep your lens safe.

Scott Shepherd
11-28-2010, 1:46 PM
Zvi, it's the opposite. It's leaving the nose cone on and not turning the air on. So the machine is not looking for air, so it will run. However, the nose cone is still on, which causes the problem.

It does have the detection on, so it you tell it to use air and forget to turn the air on, it won't run, but that doesn't work the opposite direction.

Joseph Tovar
11-28-2010, 4:16 PM
Hi Scott, I think that's what Zvi was saying. If you check the box to detect air and you try to run the job, it won't run. This way if you have the cone installed, the "detect air" box is checked, and the compressor isn't running, the job wouldn't run since there is no air.

Then again, I'm not sure since I've never used that option. Actually, I don't even see it on my UCP. I have version 5.28.52.2 for the VLS3.50. Is it available for my system?

Richard Rumancik
11-28-2010, 4:19 PM
. . .
I still have a couple of questions though...

1) Does it matter if the Particulant/Moisture filter goes before or after the dryer? I would think that you want as much moisture/debris removed before you go though the dryer...or does it matter?

Yes, it matters for 2 reasons. The small unit will saturate fast. You want to use the HF heavy-duty dryer before the lighter duty unit. The second reason is that you want the particulate filter AFTER all the desiccant so that any solid particles from the desiccant are removed. Also you could get some rust particles from the dryer. The bottom of the dryer will get wet and needs to be drained regularly.


2)While at Lowes, they had an inline desiccant filter(about 4" long) for $7.99. Could this be used instead of the larger Desiccant dryer I purchased from Harbor Freight? Besides being smaller, what's the difference. The only thing I can forsee would be changing out the sillica more often since it's smaller. Is there any other difference? It will do the same thing, but the inline filter will saturate faster in proportiuon to the weight of silica gel. (I'm assuming it is loaded with silica gel; the small ones usually are.) So if if you have 2 oz of silica gel compared to 2.2 lbs it will saturate 15 to 20 times faster.


3)Why does the SCFM rating go up as the PSI value goes down? For example, 2.3scfm @ 90psi, 3.6scfm @ 40psi? Some of the smaller ones were like .6scfm @ 90psi, 1.0scfm @ 40psi. For a given compressor you can have one or the other but not both. I suppose Boyle's law might partially explain it (for a constant temperature if you double the volume inside a piston, the pressure will go to half.) For a compressor, it won't be a pure linear relationship but just imagine taking a cfm of 90 psi air - if you expanded the volume to 2 cfm the pressure would go to 45 psi.


I think Richard commented on this, but just to be sure...Could I have just purchased a 3 gallon tank and then filled it from my main compressor in the garage? I looked at some of the tanks, but they only specify a PSI rating, not a cfm. I wasn't sure if this was something I could have done. I commented on the possibility of using a holding tank as a pre-dryer. The idea being that the water vapor would condense on the cannister walls. You would need to drain it regularly. The advantage is that it takes some load off the dryer as there is no desiccant needed. A psi rating on the tank just means what static pressure it can withstand. It is probably rated to withstand many times your typical shop compressor of 125 psi. It won't have a cfm rating as that would really have no meaning on a simple tank.

Joseph Tovar
11-28-2010, 4:34 PM
Hi Scott,

I thought about using my original compressor, but it's just bulky so I didn't want to wheel it around everytime I needed it. I figured I'd just spend the money and by a smaller portable one. I can use it in the workshop and for smaller projects around the house and leave the larger one in the garage.

As for the climate, I'm not positive which types would cause the most condensation from the air compressor and the temperature in the workshop. I live in California and the outside temp(while I'm working) is between 55-95 degrees and not humid. The temperature inside my shop stays between 60-75 degrees. Maybe I'll use the little dryer for now and see how much water it accumulates over time and if it works fine, I'll keep it and use the larger one in my garage with the other compressor.

This thread has actually taught me a lot about using my compressor and all the fittings/attachments. I would mostly use my compressor for airing up tires, balls, running my tools, etc and then drain the tank from the bottom value to remove the moisture from the tank. I never thought about all the moisture or debris in the hose and how it could damage my tools overtime.

Scott Shepherd
11-28-2010, 6:49 PM
Hi Scott, I think that's what Zvi was saying. If you check the box to detect air and you try to run the job, it won't run. This way if you have the cone installed, the "detect air" box is checked, and the compressor isn't running, the job wouldn't run since there is no air.

Then again, I'm not sure since I've never used that option. Actually, I don't even see it on my UCP. I have version 5.28.52.2 for the VLS3.50. Is it available for my system?

Joseph, it's the opposite of that.

If you pick "Air assist" and then you forget to turn the air on, it will not run, it'll give you a low air alarm. However, if you leave air assist off, and leave the nose cone on, you will not get an alarm. That's the issue. The machine has no way of knowing if you left the nose cone on.

Running it without air turned off in the driver and the nose cone on is what I'm referring to.

Joseph Tovar
12-06-2010, 1:09 AM
Today I finally got around to get everything installed and I ran into a problem that should be very simple...Connecting the compressor hose to the back of the laser.

There is a little port on the back where you push the clip down, insert the hose adapter, and then press the little button to lock it in. When I use an everyday male 1/4" coupler it fits in fine(circumference), but seams loose in/out of the port. Once I press the little button to release the clip, it locks so the male adapter can't come out, but it's steam extremely loose. It fits kind of like a ball joint where I can swivel it around, but it won't come out. I've never seen a male adapter fit in that way. Usually it locks into place and doesn't move at all. Is there a special adapter that plugs into this type of port? I couldn't find any specs for the port and the manual just says to plug in the blue hose, which I don't have since I'm not using their air controlled cart.

Any ideas? See attachment.

Dan Hintz
12-06-2010, 6:01 AM
I would have to go unhook mine, but I remember it not looking like a standard nipple adapter... it had a rubber o-ring and a mostly straight sidewall configuration.

Barry Clark
12-06-2010, 8:06 AM
This is what you're looking for Joesph.

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu282/Barry50_2009/lens2002.jpg

Sorry about the fuzzy shot. It's a bit early

Joseph Tovar
12-06-2010, 5:05 PM
Thanks for the pics. This explains why all the adapters I have didn't work.

ULS sells it:
270-0032-00-A QUICK COUPLING - AIR(LARGE) $22.00 + shipping.

I was hoping to run down to a local hardware store to pick one up but I can't seam to find one. I think ULS said it's a:

1/4 BORE X 1/4FNPT QUICK COUPLING (MALE)

Anyone know where to find something like this? I checked Home Depot and Lowes so far.

Richard Rumancik
12-06-2010, 9:50 PM
You need to go to a shop that sells hydraulic and pneumatic fittings; it will probably be more of an industrial supplier than consumer/retail store. But the price will probably be a lot less than having to order and pay shipping.

John Tolman
08-15-2012, 1:18 PM
I realize this is a really old thread, but I had the same issue of not being able to find these connectors and maybe someone else will too. I really like the connector style and wanted to use them on a vacuum press bag (the vacuum pump has the same exact fitting on the back of it).

There isn't a special name for these fittings as I thought there would be, they're just a random type of quick connect fitting. There are two companies who make them, Link Tech and Colder. Link Tech make the ones on my VLS and vacuum pump, but I purchased some from Colder because they have a local distributor.

Unless you're in a big city, you may have a hard time finding a local distributor who readily stocks the sizes you need. I had to special order the right size plastic fittings for my vacuum bag despite there being a local distributor.

http://www.linktechcouplings.com/Products.aspx (40CB series is what I believe comes on the VLS air assist)
http://www.colder.com/Tabid/72/MaterialID/2/Products.aspx

-John



Thanks for the pics. This explains why all the adapters I have didn't work.

ULS sells it:
270-0032-00-A QUICK COUPLING - AIR(LARGE) $22.00 + shipping.

I was hoping to run down to a local hardware store to pick one up but I can't seam to find one. I think ULS said it's a:

1/4 BORE X 1/4FNPT QUICK COUPLING (MALE)

Anyone know where to find something like this? I checked Home Depot and Lowes so far.