Want/Need/Reality dilemma

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

As a lot of you know, I quit woodworking fulltime and went back to a 'real' job early this year. :(

My current shop is a poorly sized, poorly laid out 16 x 44 space that's nothing special to look at. The equipment I have now is too much for the space, and I have no 'working' room. Since I still build 'for sale', anything that's finished goes in the house somewhere because I have no place else to store it. Along with 'product' goes a pile of moving blankets, crates for carrying stuff to shows, etc. etc. We have a modest sized house, and not enough storage to begin with...so this is an issue.

We've discussed building another house, but have been mortgage free for many years...built current house for cash over a period of a few years. I'm not willing do another house like that, and LOML is very much against a mortage...so we've pretty much agreed to spend a bit to freshen this one up and deal with it. It's plenty for the two of us, and the kids just aren't around visiting enough to be a factor in the decision.

We live on a small acreage (16 or so), so room isn't a consideration. I'd like to build a new shop...ideally in the 1800-2200sf range. This would give me room to spread out, install the few remaining machines I want/need, have a dedicated spray area, storage space for finished things, a display/office area, etc. The talk of a new house has always made me feel guilty about a new shop...but now the house is a non-factor. Even though I'm not WW full time, I'm still probably showing a profit of $7,500-$10,000 a year...so it's not just a matter of a 'selfish' cost associated with a hobby...and at some point, I may do it fulltime again. I'm blessed to have the full support of LOML in whatever I decide to do.

Over the years, I've built an awful lot of stuff in my little shop with the equipment I have...and when I can't do it there I have a network of buddies with different equipment or more appropriate space that I can use to get things done...so when it comes right down to it, a new shop is still a 'want'. My 'dilemma' is that even tho I feel I can justify a bigass shop and a load of expensive gear, none of the kids has ever shown even the slightest interest in woodworking. I'm only 45, but have already started to factor 'age and future use' into purchase decisions. Historically, men in my family don't get real old. :(

So where's the balance between 'want' and 'need'? Realizing that lots of fellers wait until they're fully retired to jump in, am I outta my mind to be concerned with leaving a shop full of crap around for the young'uns or LOML to have to sell off when I'm gone? :confused:

New shop or no?

[Frank Pellow]

If you can afford it, you should build it.

First of all, should it come to that, your wife already has an equipped shop to deal with, if you were to die before her. So, we are just talking about a bigger shop and more equipment.

I am 17 years older than you are; I just built a shop and am about to equip it; I expect to spend many happy years using it. Margaret and I thought a little bit about the "what happens when Frank is gone" aspect, but not for long. My attitude is that I will (probably) only live once and (probably) when I am gone I am gone. So, I should live my life as productively, as happily, as healthily, and as helpfully as I can. My shop helps with all these things.

[Dave Right]

I am 55 and went through that thought process a couple of years ago.
I had an extra wooded lot next to my house so like you I also had the room
to expand but was I ready to go back in debt with my house paid for?
One main thing in my consideration was to not have a regret and look back
at retirement age and said if I had built 10 years earlier ------.
I think with your experience in WW and having most of the equipment you want
then GO FOR IT and don't look back. I regret the new payments but have never regretted the decision to build the shop I have always wanted and you won't regret it either!

[Karl Laustrup]

Kirk, I have to agree with the esteemed members who have posted before me.
I'm almost 58 and just this year I have really gotten into wanting to do WW as a hobby more than anything. I don't have enough room for what I would consider the ultimate shop unless I dispense with parking vehicles in the garage [24X30] and I'm not going to do that, with the price of vehicles these days.
I don't know how long I'm going to be around to woodwork. I sometimes hope that I'll be around long enough to install and use my Oneida cyclone and some of the wood I have harvested from my property.
However, I've decided that I should enjoy the time I have left. That would be kids, grandkids, LOML and woodworking.
Do it while you can. Just MHO.

Karl

[Walt Pater]

Do the shop. with your current profit margin, you'll justify the expense in less than 5 years, which is nothing. What you'll be bulding is Peace of Mind- a new, clean, uncluttered workspace. In all likelihood, your output will increase, and so will your profit margin. But don't torture yourself with the whole want/need dilemma- I know where you're coming from (a man who wants something will find just about any reason to justify how he needs it). I currently rent shop space for a percentage of a work's cost, and whereas it's a roof, it's not my space, and I'm not at liberty to inventory lumber, put up shelves, etc.
In your case, I would say that you are soundly justified in the construction of a new shop. Just make sure it's big enough to hold some of your spouse's goodies, too.

[Jim Dunn]

Do the shop and all the tools you can afford or need. Same delima? here as I'm 54. Decided on my own I don't want my LOML's next husband to think I was a piker and bought cheap :) Already have about $50,000 in fishing equipment with the bass boat, so I need to play catch up on ww tools.

[thomas prevost]

Just remember, " Your dead a long time." Life is about having fun and we should do it. If it isn't hurting anyone else by depriving them of their needs go for it. As far as what to do when you die. Hopefully this, along with all the other aspects dying and estates, whould be thought out, discussed with the family, and written down. Pick a reputable auctioneer or estate liquidator to handle the sale and keep the name updated. Your family will have to only make one phone call. This should be done for all things such as hobby cars, sporting equipment, etc.

[Jay Knepper]

Do the new shop, buy the tools.

Having recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage (with no cars allowed) to a 30 x 40 foot shop (built by the former owner) the difference is immense and I'm embarrased to say that I could use more space. Space is like clamps...

As for the "excess" furniture, you might think about donating it to a local chartiy for an auction or whatever. You can probably take a tax deduction and help out your community in one fell swoop. It's also possible that this will lead to some new customers.

As for the tools, think of the future "gloats" that you will ultimately make available to the next generation of woodworkers!

[Jim Becker]

KC, when I determined that I really loved woodworking I also decided that I would take advantage of the fact that I can afford some things now a lot better than I will be able to do so "later". I've been blessed with great employment as well as both the support of Dr. SWMBO toward that end. Like anyone, I made the typical buying mistakes early on...and don't do that anymore...I buy the best I can afford, even if I need to wait a little longer for it.

Toward that end, I think that investing in a shop struture that will fit your needs now and into the future is a good investment. You generate income now from your woodworking that will help pay for it, can potenitally take advantage of some tax savings since you "do" have a business and income from your work and it will not hurt your property value, either, especially with the acerage you have. Do it now while you can...it will be a lot harder should you need to go back to full time woodworking without the space you need to be effective and efficient in your business. (Time is money)

I also think that being mortgage free is a great thing and very helpful to your situation. You can finance your improvements with a HELOC (low-cost to implement) an pay it off as quickly as you're able without starting over with a new traditional mortgage.

And I wouldn't worry about the kids...eveyone has things they like to do and things they do not feel compelled to participate in. They will find their own way and maybe over time, their interest towards woodworking will change. Who knows? You can't control that!

[Paul B. Cresti]

KC,
I am 34 and like you got laid off this past April and have embarked on my new journey as a professional woodworker while of course continuing as an Architect. About two years ago we also moved into our current house. My shop is what was our garage (25x25) and it is too small. I had over the years in the past house built up my shop and had everything I needed already, but when we moved and I got laid off I invested in the business and sold off my old stuff and bought my current MM machines to increase my productivity.

As others have said we do not have much time here on Earth (maybe Heaven will be one big WW'g shop!) and we need to make the most of it. In starting my own business you start to see what is really important in life. Number one is family. Second for me is being honest and hardworking. Third is being truthful to whom you are. If like me, you enjoy creating with your hands then that is not a want, that is a need to fulfill yourself. I would say to go ahead and do it and pick the machinery that makes you happy I for the long haul. In my experience selling machinery is quite easy if the need ever arrises.

[Rob Russell]

KC,

I'll take your comment of men in your family don't get "real old" as meaning that you have a good probability of living to your mid-60's, but after that your longevity becomes questionable. That's my assumption.

Given that assumption, you have another 20 years of life ahead of you. Would you rather spend those 20 years in the 16x44 shop or a shop that makes you grin everytime you walk into it? How much is that extra enjoyment worth to you? Compare the value of that to a shrink.
How much additional use would you get from a shop that's laid out with the space and power you really want? How much easier would it be for you to work if the new shop has lighting designed to help aging eyes? Can you layout out storage so the physical movement of stuff is minimized as you age so you can spend more time/effort producing stuff?

I think I'd have support from my wife to build a big shop, except we really don't have the space in our yard. That space is one of the things I will consider when it comes time to move from where we are now to our retirement home.

Go for it - build the shop.

Rob

[Mark Singer]

I agree with all the support of the members statements above...you should do something to continue enjoy your woodworking. Is it possible to add on to the current shop....the 44 demension is great. If it were 44x30 it would be a good size.

[Jason Roehl]

I think you're asking the wrong bunch on whether to build a new shop or not--we're all pretty biased, I'd guess. :D However, one aspect I didn't see mentioned was the efficiency factor on your "for sale" projects. With a newer, larger shop, you would presumably make your $10k/year with less overall effort--no tripping over yourself to assemble, finish and store the product. I also like the idea of "grin factor", or an inviting shop. I am working toward that end right now myself. I grew tired of thinking I needed to thoroughly clean the shop every time I entered (even before any real ww'ing was possible), so I have resolved to rearrange for efficiency and reorganize, then keep it that way. It had become a burden to even walk into my shop, as the chaos weighed heavily on me.

So, go for it. Jim's idea of HELOC as you go is definitely a good plan, too, not that I'm a financial adviser or anything, but it sounds like a logical approach.

[Chris Padilla]

Mmmm, HELOC...where do you think I got my stash for all my F and MM goodies! :) It is also nice that prices for houses in California continue to escalate to insane levels...unless, of course, you are buying! :)

There are worse things to have than a mortgage...like too little space.... :)

[Dan Mages]

I think you should go for it. If you eventually sell the house, you should be able to make the money back. My only real advice is to build it to last and build it like a fine piece of furniture.

Dan

[Maurice Ungaro]

KC,
Go foward with this philosophy in mind: No "Should Haves". You'll be happier, and so will your bride.

Maurice

[Charles McKinley]

Hi KC,

You will be able to write off the cost against your profits. A well made shop on your 16 acres will definately enhance its value and saleability. Have you gone to an auction where WW equipment is being sold? Some people will pay more for stuff than it cost to walk into a store and buy it new. (A bad auction good stuff can sell for dirt also, resesarch your auctioneer.) With the gallery space it may bring in even more sales and pay for itself in even less time.

Go for it!

[Jerry Olexa]

Kirk. based on your note, I'd build it! You have the space (16ac) and ability and financial. It would be a good and enjoyable investment for the future, I wouldn't worry about the kids. We all march to different drummers.

[Dan Mages]

Here's another thing to think about. What about having a shop with a showroom for what you build? This may increase the sales of your projects and create some repeat customers.

Dan

[Darren Ford]

Kirk, if you delay it a few years, it will be more expensive to build. Doing it now will make you happier, more productive, probably safer, and save money. Sounds like wins all the way around.

[Carl Eyman]

Going into debt is something only you can decide. I've done some woodworking all my life (nearly 83 yrs). I've done better work and enjoyed it more in the past ten years than at any time before. So you are only 1/2 way through your wwing career. If you can generate $7500 to $10000 per year, it seems to me you can afford a larger shop. Perhaps a short term mortgage to get you the shop earlier and start generating that ww income earlier and perhaps in greater amounts would make sense. Anyway, good luck. I've read the good advice you've given others over a several years now. I am sure you have plenty left for yourself.

[Jim Schmoll]

Go for it.. I moved from a 1200' first floor of a dutch barn and storage on the top floor, to a 24X25 at my new house. I pull in 12-15K eack year part time and will retire this year at 60 only to build a new shop. The lady of the house thinks this is great, and keeps me out of the kitchen.....

Jim from Idyllwild CA :o

[Mike Mastin]

Kirk,

When I started Curly Woods, I took money from my 401K and decided to invest in myself and my future. I had recently been released from a corporate job that I had cherished for almost 20 years. It was a sobering day when they told me that I was being let go.
What would I do now? After about a week of feeling sorry for myself, I took action. I started investigating what it would take to begin a new business. I still to this day, say that God directed me on this path as I was always second guessing myself about starting a figured hardwood business. Everytime I would tell myself that this was foolish, something would happen to open doors that I never knew exsisted. My wife agreed to allow me this foolish leap of faith. She is my angel in life and I am blessed to have her.

I started out with a 6" JET jointer, a 15" JET planer, and 10" JET cabinet saw. These were all of the tools that I had when I started Curly Woods. Money was tight and justified that "I would not buy anything that was not for sale". So I only purchased lumber that first year. No new tools or anything else.

This philosophy carried me a long ways, but there came a time when I had to invest more in my future. I sold the 6" jointer and purchased a Delta DJ-20. I then realized that I needed a planer that had a helical cutter head to lessen the amouint of tearout that I was getting with all of our figured woods. I was simnply not able to surface some woods due to the extreme amount of tearout and this made it difficult to sell figured woods to people :-)
Money was again an issue. Well low and behold while gawking at all of the industrial woodworking tools at the Atlanta IWF with Steve Jenkins I stumbled upon a small booth with a guy that had a small 15" planer and he was surfacing really highly figured woods with now tearout! Then it also hit me that this planer was super quiet too! What was the secret. The Byrd Shelix head! And they mnade one for my planer!
It was a Godsend! I could afford to buy it and this would allow me to get past another issue that was limiting my growth potentials. Just before the new year I felt that we needed to do something to increase our sales. I talked to my wife and she told me that I should move to a location in a bigger town and be sure to have good traffic flow so people could see the store that might just be driving by. I was scared to death, but I started looking for a new building in McKinney.

The funny thing is about to happen. A few years earlier, well before I ever thought about starting any kind of business, I used to admire this building that was close to where I got my hair cut. I know that this a strange thing, but the building was well maintained by the landlord and it just looked like the kind of place that I would think that some business would do well.

That very evening after spending three or four days driving around with commercial real estate brokers and getting depressed about the lease cost of buildings, I picked up the little local paper. I started reading the paper and then flipped back to the classified section. I saw that someone had a building for lease on the street that I knew well, as I get my hair cut at a location close to the address in the ad. My interest peaked I called the number. It was late on a Sunday evening and I did not expect anyone to answer. I got a hold of the owner and he asked if I wanted to come down and look at it that night. I said yes.
As I pulled onto the street, I started searching for the address. As I drove I was totally shooked to see that same building that just a few years earlier I had thought would be a great place for a business, was the one for lease! It was everything that I thought that it would be, but it was almost 3 times the payment of our present location. I was scared to death at the thought of taking on this big of a lease. My wife and my lone employee at the time both pushed me to do it. I again let my faith in God lead me as I felt that he had brought me to this point and I would give it a try. The worst that could happen is that we would go out of business. At this point we were struggling to grow and I knew that I needed to do something different to expect any chance of things changing for the better.

Well its been a little over a year since I took that leap of faith. I now have a 24" bandsaw, a 16" jointer and just leased a new 24" industrial sized planer for the shop. We also have a forklift that is fairly new and this was another leap of faith as I had to commit to a lease on all of these new tools.

What I am trying to say is only you know what the gamble is worth and what it could mean to you and your family and your future. I know that you are skilled craftsman and work hard. Weight out the pluses and then make your choices. Investing in yourself is always a good idea to me :-)

I pray that your choice will be blessed and that you will find a way to make it work if this is what you want to do!

[Mike Wilkins]

Good comments from all who posted here. Another justification for larger space is the already completed projects. I only have a 16 X 24 space to work in, so whatever I am building has to leave the shop quickly, or risk being bumped, scratched or damaged somehow. More storage space will give you a place to store these items until sold.

I have to agree with other comments. Build and enjoy what you can now because tomorrow is not promised.

Good luck and watch those fingers.