Building a new shop any advice wil help.

[Mike Sayre]

Hi all, I am a newbie and i am currently having a shop built where i just purchased my home...The shop is going to be like 24x28 got a really good price on it.Now comes the fun part...I want to make cabinets,tables,book shelves,etc. I currently have some tools that i bought to do some remodeling in my other homes i had...The tools i got is RIGID ts-3660 table saw,RIGID r2900 fixed base and plunge router kit for my router,DEWALT dw705 12inch compound miter saw with lazer on a DEWALT dw723 table,and i have a small mini pancake dewalt air compressor with a few nail guns big and small. Now from your experienced wood workers here am i on the right track on the tools i got now or do i start over i know i need more tools i see but i just want to make sure the ones i got are good accurate for a nice quality job as well..I bought lots of books and been reading and watching you guys talk on here as well.

Here are some tools i am looking into buying for my shop as well. Festool domino df-500 q joiner set,Dewalt 735 planer,DEWALT DW 7350 Planer Stand with Integrated Mobile Base,DEWALT DW7353 Chip Collection Accessory for DW735 Planer,Grizzly G0457 band saw,and mast-r-lift II complete table system that jessem has for my router table.

I know there's much more i need to buy like bisquits and other stuff but from basically seeing what i got and getting i am on the right track here???
Any info on the way im going to have my shop built would help a lot as well...Thanks a lot guys

[Bill Huber]

Welcome to the Creek, the best woodworking forum on the net.

I am sure not a pro but some thoughts.....

Plan plan plan..... SketchUp can really help you with the layout and planning.

Make sure you have all the circuits you need. then figure out how many receptical you need and then double it.

The first thing you want to do after you get the shop wired is to set up and plum in a dust collector, this goes back to planning as to where you want your tools set up in the shop.

Get the shop some what set up so you can work in it and then decide on what cabinets and were you want them.

With me I hate the fact that I have a shop all done and now I say I sure wish I would have done it different.

I am sure there will be a lot of guys here give you some very good info on what and how to set up your shop.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

+1 on the dust collector and the planning advice. Lay it all out, and get power and DC set up first.

I would also recommend a jointer. There are lots of good posts here (and elsewhere on the interweb) on how to set up shop, but the TS, jointer and planer should be the 'triangle' for wood prep.

If I had that sort of room, I'd want to set space aside for:
- lumber storage, both boards and sheet goods
- good sized entrance doors
- a larger air compressor
- a sizeable workbench.

[Mike Sayre]

So do you think the tools that i have and the ones i have on here that im going to buy is good enough?

[Joseph Tarantino]

aaahhhhhh, not one mention of a WMH group tool! smart move staying away form jet, powermatic and wilton.

i'd go with the ridgid planer insted of the 735 and combine the savings from that with skipping the domino and getting a good plate joiner, like the porter cable or dewalt models. the savings from those two tool changes will probably cover the cost of a descent dust collector. and adding grizzly to the mix covers a good band saw. good luck with the shop build. just keep focusing on what functionality you need or want instead of just buying the most expensive type of a given tool you can.

[fRED mCnEILL]

When you are designing the shop's electrical setup you might want to consider placing the receptacles higher up on the walls. Mine are approx 36 inches off the floor. Makes it a lot easier. Also I have combination 110/220 volt plugs around the shop. Some tools are 110v and others are 220v. and you can't have too many. Extra receptacles are relatively cheap in the overall scheme of thing, especially when installed during construction.

[greg a bender]

Good luck on your shop!

I say, buy what is the best you can afford. The best bang for the buck.
I have a mix of Delta, Fox, Giz and Jet. tools. I got good prices on them and they work. Just a little bit of shopping makes a big difference.

[Mike Sayre]

aaahhhhhh, not one mention of a WMH group tool! smart move staying away form jet, powermatic and wilton.

i'd go with the ridgid planer insted of the 735 and combine the savings from that with skipping the domino and getting a good plate joiner, like the porter cable or dewalt models. the savings from those two tool changes will probably cover the cost of a descent dust collector. and adding grizzly to the mix covers a good band saw. good luck with the shop build. just keep focusing on what functionality you need or want instead of just buying the most expensive type of a given tool you can.

The rigid and the dewalt 735 both cost 399 which is better?

[Carroll Courtney]

Even though you have an air compressor(pancake)I would make plans to up grade to a 60gal or 80gal (future)and layout for the piping.I would have drops along the work bench,assembly area,painting area,etc.I would run black pipe and install pee-traps at each drop.If you google it I'm sure several plans would pop up.Welcome and post pics of your progress,we're all noise:D----Carroll

[Sean Troy]

As mentioned, double the amount of outlets you think you need. 220v outlets in 20 and 30 amp. Don't cheap out on the electrical panel. A good one is a commercial Square D panel and breakers. 100 amp should do it for that size shop.

[Ray Newman]

My thoughts.

You didn’t say where you are located or if you are already going to do this, but insulate the bee-geez-us out of the building, inc. quality windows and doors! The more comfortable you make the shop, the more time you will spend there.

Sounds like you have a good idea as to what you want you want to do. IMO, you can get by on the tools that you now have.

As Bill H suggested, install a good dust collection cyclone. I have one and it is worth every paid I paid Oneida for it. Same with Bill’s advice as to tool lay out. When I did my shop (30x36 detached building, wood shop is 24x30), I made a large scale drawing of the shop area and tools on butcher paper. I then moved the tools around until I was comfortable with the layout. I found this visually more user friendly than the computer screen.

MY tools are laid out so I can see anyone who comes in the roll up garage door or side access door while I am using the power tools or at the work bench. A much safer way to work.

Also have magntic starters (AKA switches) on my power tools. Once was running the router table and there was power faillure. Before I could turn it off, the power came back on. Good thing I had not let go of the work. Lee Valley has a GFCI that must be re-set after a power failure
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=53253&cat=1,42207

WoodCraft has a similar safety device that plus into a well receptacle or extension cord. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2081073/30191/SafeStart-Systems-SafetyGate-Professional.aspx

Have a good first aid kit handy.

Good lightning: as we get older and on dark days, more light is needed. Have the lights wired so the whole shop doesn’t need to be lit.

Tools and shops naturally “attract” thieves. Think about a shop alarm system and a phone line. The windows in my shop are high to keep out “inquisitive eyes“. Plus the roll-up insulated garage door has no windows. Having windows up high leaves more useable space beneath.

As for tool upgrades or future purchases, I always recommend a good quality cabinet saw. And a good 12” planer plus a long bed 8” jointer are well worth the money. The De Walt 735 planer seems to be a very popular and well-made machine. Might be best to hold off on buying more tools until you really get started and then you’ll soon find out what you want and what you really need is often two different things.

A number of woodworkers often skimp on quality lay out tools. An accurate and robust square while having a stout price will last a lifetime and have readable scales. A good marking knife and/or marking gauge leave a clean and sharp line.

Router bits -- doesn’t make sense to buy these “dream router bit starting out kits” as I’ve seen far too many of these dubious quality kits sit in a drawer with only very few of the bits ever utilized. Buy good bits as you need them. As for straight bits, machine shop end-mills will work just fine.

As for air, I have cast iron oil 25 gal. unit from Grainger which runs the pneumatic nailers. ‘Nevva’ felt that this unit was underpowered for what I need. Some shops have these humungous air compressors, but are they really needed? Unless you are doing air sanding, drilling, spraying, grinding, etc., IMO they are overkill.

When I spray, I utilize water based and a HVLP turbine/sprayer. “E-zee” clean up and presents the ability to apply several coats in one day. When the weather is nice or the shop temperature turned up high, I can apply two coats of water based sanding sealer and three water based coats of poly in one day. Plus with water based products, chances of a shop fire are greatly reduced.

[Mike Sayre]

My thoughts.

You didn’t say where you are located or if you are already going to do this, but insulate the bee-geez-us out of the building, inc. quality windows and doors! The more comfortable you make the shop, the more time you will spend there.

Sounds like you have a good idea as to what you want you want to do. IMO, you can get by on the tools that you now have.

As Bill H suggested, install a good dust collection cyclone. I have one and it is worth every paid I paid Oneida for it. Same with Bill’s advice as to tool lay out. When I did my shop (30x36 detached building, wood shop is 24x30), I made a large scale drawing of the shop area and tools on butcher paper. I then moved the tools around until I was comfortable with the layout. I found this visually more user friendly than the computer screen.

MY tools are laid out so I can see anyone who comes in the roll up garage door or side access door while I am using the power tools or at the work bench. A much safer way to work.

Also have magntic starters (AKA switches) on my power tools. Once was running the router table and there was power faillure. Before I could turn it off, the power came back on. Good thing I had not let go of the work. Lee Valley has a GFCI that must be re-set after a power failure
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=53253&cat=1,42207

WoodCraft has a similar safety device that plus into a well receptacle or extension cord. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2081073/30191/SafeStart-Systems-SafetyGate-Professional.aspx

Have a good first aid kit handy.

Good lightning: as we get older and on dark days, more light is needed. Have the lights wired so the whole shop doesn’t need to be lit.

Tools and shops naturally “attract” thieves. Think about a shop alarm system and a phone line. The windows in my shop are high to keep out “inquisitive eyes“. Plus the roll-up insulated garage door has no windows. Having windows up high leaves more useable space beneath.

As for tool upgrades or future purchases, I always recommend a good quality cabinet saw. And a good 12” planer plus a long bed 8” jointer are well worth the money. The De Walt 735 planer seems to be a very popular and well-made machine. Might be best to hold off on buying more tools until you really get started and then you’ll soon find out what you want and what you really need is often two different things.

A number of woodworkers often skimp on quality lay out tools. An accurate and robust square while having a stout price will last a lifetime and have readable scales. A good marking knife and/or marking gauge leave a clean and sharp line.

Router bits -- doesn’t make sense to buy these “dream router bit starting out kits” as I’ve seen far too many of these dubious quality kits sit in a drawer with only very few of the bits ever utilized. Buy good bits as you need them. As for straight bits, machine shop end-mills will work just fine.

As for air, I have cast iron oil 25 gal. unit from Grainger which runs the pneumatic nailers. ‘Nevva’ felt that this unit was underpowered for what I need. Some shops have these humungous air compressors, but are they really needed? Unless you are doing air sanding, drilling, spraying, grinding, etc., IMO they are overkill.

When I spray, I utilize water based and a HVLP turbine/sprayer. “E-zee” clean up and presents the ability to apply several coats in one day. When the weather is nice or the shop temperature turned up high, I can apply two coats of water based sanding sealer and three water based coats of poly in one day. Plus with water based products, chances of a shop fire are greatly reduced.


Thanks a lot guys you all been a real help...Hope i am able 1 day to help you guys out as well..And Ray i am located in Mississippi and i have not had it built yet i still got to level the land.All i done is talk to a guy who builds homes and told him i just want it built on the outside i will do the drywall and stuff on the inside..I plan on getting me a vac system and a larger compressor you said that i can get by on the tools i have is that a good thing or not?..The way you said it is that i don't got the right tools... :-( And now i went further in the forums and see a lot of people buying powermatic pm2000 table saw and it cost 2000 dollars did i make a mistake when i bought my rigid for 600 i just hope with the tools i have now i just didnt waste a bunch of money on them... Now i am not feeling good about the tools i got...All i want to do is do good clean custom work...

[Joseph Tarantino]

The rigid and the dewalt 735 both cost 399 which is better?
here is the result of a google search for the dewalt 735:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=dewalt+735&rlz=1R2GGLJ_enUS334&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=1135178537693499322&ei=N6bpTM7VCIL_8Aa38L29CQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCkQ8wIwAg#

the lowest price there was $599 @ toolking. i'm sure there are many here who would like to know where 735s can be had, new, for $399.

disregarding price, the 735 is a better 13" planer, at least that's what wood magazine decided in their last test of 13" planers. but the 4330 was rated a best buy, offering the most bang for the buck. either will provide good service.

so , where can those 735s be had for $399?

[Mike Sayre]

Joseph i am sry i must have been on a wrong page i do see that it does cost 599 sry for the bad info...

[Neil Brooks]

Ray Newman, among others, gave you excellent advice (as usual !).

The only place where I might disagree is the router bits.

In my humble opinion, a *reasonable* assortment of 1/2" shank bits will give you a reasonable opportunity to figure out exactly which bits YOU will and will not use.

From there, I WOULD definitely recommend buying *those profiles,* from a good-quality manufacturer (eg, Amana, Whiteside, CMT, Eagle etc.).

I've reached into my original Woodline set more than a few times for a bit profile that I have NO *regular* use for, but was glad to have around. They're adequate quality, and hold up well -- if not pushed, and overheated -- under occasional use.

And ... though I'm pretty satisfied with the roughly $250 or so that's into my Harbor Freight 2HP DC, with Wynn Cartridge Filter, I *do* have a 2 or 3hp cyclone on my short list of eventual upgrades. And ... since I could turf the HF model to my ww'er brother ... it's not money wasted :)

Good luck !

[Rick Levine]

Mike,

I went through the same thing about 3 years ago and used Visio to plan my shop. This is what I came up with. Feel free to use anything you see in the plan. One thing you'll notice. I'm also a photographer and added a wet darkroom to the plan as well as a small office. I hope this makes some of your planning a bit easier.

[Ray Newman]

Mike Sayer: there is nothing wrong -- in my estimation -- with the tools you have. A good deal of woodworking does depend upon the quality of the tool(s) but also on the skill of the operator and his/her willingness to spend time in the shop, make mistakes, and learn from mistakes and successes. IMO, very few of us are the so-called “naturals“ in any endeavor.

I have found and observed that if you don’t think your tools are up to par, two things will happen: either unsatisfactory work, or the tool will produce very good results. Don’t think that a big brand new shiny Uni-saw, Powermatic, or SawStop will instantly make you a Master Craftsman -- if it only worked that way!

In my case, I started out in 1968 with a PITA Sears radial arm saw but sold it to buy the old tried and true Delta contractor’s saw -- the 34-444 I believe was the model and unfortunately, no longer made. I had that saw for a good many years until my tool supplier offered a very discounted price on a Uni-saw with Uni-fence, low voltage controls, and Uni-guard. If the price for the Uni was not so good, I’d probably still have the contractor’s saw.

You may find the need to upgrade the fence on your saw or install the ubiquitous link belt for better performance. Or, you may find the need or an aftermarket miter gauge, like the INCRA 1000SE, which I swear by. I’ve found that nay tool can be improved upon and each has its quirks.

One thing I have learned: the Uni-saw does probably 99% of the work and before starting any project, I check that it still cuts at 90 degrees and that the fence cursor is where it should be on the measuring tape. Same with the jointer -- check the fence for 90 degrees to the in feed table. Trust me on this -- a few minutes with scrap can save money, time, wood, and aggravation later on.

And speaking of a jointer, a sharp and well-tuned jointer plane with a fence can easily true the edge on a board. An extra blade on hand cuts down on sharpening time. For ‘zample:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=52414&cat=1,41182,48944 (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=52414&cat=1,41182,48944)
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=7 (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=7)
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=8 (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=8)

A person does not need a shop full of power tools to do woodwork. Hand tools are slower, but some find that pace more relaxing and rewarding. Power tools, esp. planers and table saws are wonderful for doing the heavy lifting and other tasks. A person just needs to find his/her niche and what he/she is comfortable working with and what personal finances allow.

One poster mentioned electrical receptacles 36” off the floor; however, a sheet of plyw’d will block access. Mine are at 50”. I would also recommend installing a circuit for a welder. You may never know when one might “follow” you home. Installing ample plus a few more circuits at the building stage is very cheap and easy compared to later on.

Believe you mentioned buying a planer stand. Consider buying good locking casters and a sheet of plyw’d to build your own. A cabinet would be a relatively easy build at a comfortable working height and a way to acquire more experience. Add a door and a shelf (or two) and you’re home free. Same with a cut-off table or a combined mobile cut off/assembly table for the table saw. Shop fabricated cabinets, tools, and jigs are a great way to learn and improve skills.

[Van Huskey]

My 2 cents. Slow down and buy tools as your intended projects dictate, they will give you the time to explore this site and develop a feel for where you want to spend big money and where you can get out cheaper. The other thing that will get you a lot more detailed info is to post a new thread for each machine/tool purchase and you will get a lot more feedback, you might want to search before posting as you might find a thread already that has just the answers you need.

[ian maybury]

I'm just finishing refurbishing (actually about mid way through wiring and dust system installation - the big job was the research) my similarly sized shop after ten years or so of getting by with a portable bag filter dust system, an only just adequate electrical supply, and minimal heating.

My thought is that a lot depends on your budget, on what size and type of work you propose doing, and what kit you already have.

The core decision for me is the level you choose to pitch for - what your vision is.

If it's a shop you plan to do good commercial work from at competitive levels of productivity, then professional quality facilities and equipment become important, the price tag/unit goes up accordingly, and the possibilities reduce if the budget is tight.

e.g. If you are for example planning to use a lot of sheet material, then it might make sense to go for a fullsize sliding table panel saw or the like. Which will quickly be followed by questions like will it fit, single or three phase power, what dust system etc.

The budget for a professionally (better quality eqpt) equipped and fitted out shop is going to be a lot more than for a more basic set up.

On the other hand even if you have the money it's far from easy unless you are very experienced in a particular area of work to plan a complete set up right down to the last detail and get it all right.

I've invested a lot in the last year in upgrading my set up after ten years of getting by, and despite over a year's detective work (made possible by the likes of this forum - thanks guys) I'm sure there's mistakes in there.

There's to my mind no one size fits all answer to your question. I found I made a big step forward when I got as far as being able to make a scale layout drawing showing lighting, power, storage, machine locations and feed lines, dust system/duct runs etc. - i.e. a first cut overall solution. Up to that point there were so many balls in the air that it was confusing. Once there I had a framework within which to discuss stuff, and to make decisions.

My experience has left me inclined towards the 'set the facility up right from the start' view too, and I'd endorse what's been said on heating and comfort. In as much as can be very hard to go back to some of these decisions later.

But I think for most of us that once we have a starting set up (like you getting close to) then it becomes a 'threading through the maze as needs arise, funds allow and experience clarifies' sort of issue.

When buying after that you have to always pitch consistently with your vision (which will evolve too), in that cheapskate or OTT decisions tend to lead to regret, unused equipment/poor work and wasted money. Lateral thinking rather than being led by the nose by the adverts often leads to highly cost effective solutions. There's for example not much point heading off in a fit of naive idealism to make a load of fancy hand made storage units, only to find that the layout doesn't work.

But on the other hand financial realities may force the need for interim solutions. In this case you need to be thinking about whether or not they block the vision as well as what's needed. Something like a permanent ducted dust system that's underspecified is probably a bad choice (it's hard to strip out, and won't be saleable), but on the other hand a decent mobile unit with a cyclone and good HEPA 15 filtration may make sense because (a) it'll do a proper safe job, and (b) can be sold on if you decide to go for a permanent installation later.

Perhaps the best advice I can think of (as somebody in a not too dissimilar situation) is to do the grunt work to get up to speed on what's regarded as representing best practice in all of the areas relevant to your needs (no easy task in the cacophony of noise out there, especially since professional quality stuff is much less talked about - you have to read between the lines), and to then let it evolve.

It'd be tempting if you had the money to try to do it all in one go, but the chances are that unless you have a lot of experience doing what you're setting up for that there will be a lot of mistakes in there. Also you can't cost effectively cover all the bases in a small shop, so you do have to develop (at the practical level) an understanding of the requirements that will drive equipment selection (e.g. as above there's no point buying a short slider if you plan to work with full size sheets all the time - workpiece type and dimensions are key inputs to think through)...

ian

[Carroll Courtney]

Since you have not started yet,10' ceilings and wood floor when you get older:D---Carroll

[Brian Tymchak]

.....

e.g. If you are for example planning to use a lot of sheet material, then it might make sense to go for a fullsize sliding table panel saw or the like. Which will quickly be followed by questions like will it fit, single or three phase power, what dust system etc.



Mike,

Take this point that Ian makes and give it some real thought. IMHO, it's the most important point in planning a shop. If you are going to handle full size sheet goods, figure out how to get them into your shop, store them, and move them around to the tools (table saw in particular). This will establish the basic workflow in your shop and can be an important input on how and where to run electrical and dust collection, as well as shop cabinetry, bench placement, etc. If you are going to cut sheet goods, and you don't have a panel saw in the plans, make sure to plan room on both sides of your table saw for on and off feed.

Good luck with setting up your shop!
Brian

[Mike Sayre]

Wow you guys have been so helpful actually opened another set of eyes in my head.I came to a point to say i am going to have my shop built 24x30 or 24x38. Going to use the tools i have now then slowly ,gradually gonna buy tools i need as i need them..I been looking at the grizzly website and i see they have heavy equipment there..Fell in love with the polar bear series in several machines they carry,But again i am going to use the tools i got and upgrade to better and get what i need further down the road.With me getting the shop built is one step ahead..Just hope i dont waste money and have the shop built to find out woodwork is to hard due to my very finicky ways. But i use to restore old cars and i am currently a body tech at a high end shop and i have mastered it and very picky at the work i put out..So i think i will do good just take one step at a time and as long as i got you guys to help me on my mistakes....lol Thanks so much guys..

[ken gibbs]

Get you plan together for your dust collection system. Plan on separating the dust collector outside of the main shop so you can work in the shop without going stone deaf. Figure out how you will handle 4' X 8' sheets so you will not kill yourself handling stock. DO NOT PLAN ON STORING ALL OF YOUR LUMBER INSIDE OF YOUR SHOP. You will have to remove some lumber racks later on if you do. Put your 110 v outlets (20 amp) every six feet or so on the peremiter. Determine how much 220 v power you need and how you will run your 220 v power.