Home-made Veneer Press?

[Ian Flynn]

Hello SMC,

I'm brand new here, as I was referred to this site by Joe from VeneerSupplies.com this morning. I was trying to figure out what a good way to press veneers into skateboard shapes would be, and my first thought was to try a vacuum bag. As I'm looking into it more, I realize that a vacuum bag just isn't going to cut it for me. I'm also realizing that a hydraulic press would be perfect for what I'm trying to do. However, being a 21-year old in college, I don't exactly have the funds to go buying a hydraulic press.

This brings me to my question. Does anyone here know how to build their own press, with say, some crank-down clamps to apply the pressure? Or, if anyone knows how to make a cheaper hydraulic one, that would be even better. Any help would be extremely appreciated, as my friends and I are really trying to make these skateboards for a living. So again, thank you for your time, I can't tell you how much I appreciate help.

Ian F. :)

[Mike Henderson]

To press odd shapes, the traditional way to do is is to have a box of sand. Use clamps and cauls to press the wood (with the veneer) into the sand. You can put a piece of plastic on top of the sand to keep your project clean.

Mike

[John Coloccia]

Welcome to the Creek :)

Why are you thinking a vacuum bag won't work?

[Ian Flynn]

So what you're saying is I should form the sand into the shape that I'm looking to make, lay plastic over it, then place my veneers on top with the glue and compress it? That sounds fairly simple. Do you think I'd be able to do that and make something like this??

[Ian Flynn]

Thanks for the welcome! :)

I think that the vacuum bags won't work because I'm looking to make boards with fairly substantial drops in the decks, and many with kicktails. I'm also trying to create 'W' shaped and 'U' shaped cambers into the decks as well. I don't know how one would form the boards into these shapes with a vacuum bag, since all of the ones that I saw only pulled the veneers into perfectly flattened shapes.

[Andrew W. Thomas]

Why not laminate a few 4x4s together and form the top and bottom shape of the board. Use very thin wet pieces of wood with loads of glue between and use beefy clamps to press them to shape between the two frames.

Something similar to these forms.
http://moy.org/Exhibits/6MetreNewBuildCherokee/CherokeeBlog/tabid/500/EntryId/27/Glue-ups-and-piles-of-lines.aspx

I have not done any laminating but have watched it done. This question may be better suited for the boat building thread?

Also look into modern skateboard construction. You may want to add a layer of resin or fiberglass between for added strength.

[Mike Henderson]

So what you're saying is I should form the sand into the shape that I'm looking to make, lay plastic over it, then place my veneers on top with the glue and compress it? That sounds fairly simple. Do you think I'd be able to do that and make something like this??
The sand technique is used when putting veneer on a substrate that's already the shape you want. It looks to me like you want to do a laminate process where you take many thin pieces of wood, with glue between them, and force them into a shape while the glue dries.

To do that, you'll need to make two forms, one for the top and one for the bottom. Make sure you account for the thickness of the material when shaping the forms. Put your material between them and put lots of clamps on the forms to press them together.

The sand technique will NOT work to glue up a laminated piece of work.

But consider your shape. If the bend is compound (not just a simple bend in one plane but something like a soup bowl) the laminates will have to stretch to produce the shape. Wood doesn't do that very well.

Mike

[Ian Flynn]

Why not laminate a few 4x4s together and form the top and bottom shape of the board. Use very thin wet pieces of wood with loads of glue between and use beefy clamps to press them to shape between the two frames.

Something similar to these forms.
http://moy.org/Exhibits/6MetreNewBuildCherokee/CherokeeBlog/tabid/500/EntryId/27/Glue-ups-and-piles-of-lines.aspx

I have not done any laminating but have watched it done. This question may be better suited for the boat building thread?

Also look into modern skateboard construction. You may want to add a layer of resin or fiberglass between for added strength.


Thanks! This looks fantastic. I'll talk to my dad because I'm sure he'll be able to help, seeing that he's a carpenter and wood is kind of his thing haha. And I've got 12 designs in mind for these boards, several of which are using fiberglass, many using bamboo veneer, and I'm thinking about making one with a foam core, and the rest fiberglass, with maybe a piece or two of wood inside to make it as stiff as possible. We're hoping to make this into a full-fledged longboard company, so we're gonna pull out all the stops to make it happen, and that includes fancy materials to put into the boards. ;D

[Ian Flynn]

To do that, you'll need to make two forms, one for the top and one for the bottom. Make sure you account for the thickness of the material when shaping the forms. Put your material between them and put lots of clamps on the forms to press them together.

The sand technique will NOT work to glue up a laminated piece of work.

But consider your shape. If the bend is compound (not just a simple bend in one plane) the laminates will have to stretch to produce the shape. Wood doesn't do that very well.

Mike

This is a great idea as well, and another I'll probably try. I'm also thinking that when I cut the veneers to size, I'll leave some extra on the edges so that when the wood is pulled into shape, it won't have to stretch too far. I can then sand off the excess afterwards I'm sure. Does that sound like it'd be a good way to go about avoiding that problem? Also, I'm planning on attaching fibreglass sheets to some of these boards, and I'm going to use bamboo veneers as well, will this pressing method work for those too?

[Josiah Bartlett]

You may need to make multiple steps in the veneering process, with multiple forms, to get some of the shapes you want. Start simple and with scrap wood before going all out, to get the process adapted to your work.

Also, you can get a 12 ton hydraulic press at Harbor Freight for about $129. Hydraulics will tend to creep down after a few hours, so you might want to add some screw jacks to it for clamping purposes, but maybe you could adapt that to what you want to do if you don't think vacuum will work. However, I bet it will. Vacuum forming is used to make a lot of rather deep parts out of plastic. If you keep your plies thin enough, you should be able to get some pretty gnarly patterns.

On thing you could do is develop a form that you use to steam-bend the plies and then don't glue them until they dry. If you put steamy, wet wood in the vacuum press on a form and leave it there for quite a while (like 24 hours), the vacuum will cause the water to boil off and the wood will be dry and formed. Then you can glue it and re-press, and you won't have to worry about gluing to wet wood or having as many issues with tight bends as you would with dry wood.

[Ian Flynn]

You may need to make multiple steps in the veneering process, with multiple forms, to get some of the shapes you want. Start simple and with scrap wood before going all out, to get the process adapted to your work.

Also, you can get a 12 ton hydraulic press at Harbor Freight for about $129. Hydraulics will tend to creep down after a few hours, so you might want to add some screw jacks to it for clamping purposes, but maybe you could adapt that to what you want to do if you don't think vacuum will work. However, I bet it will. Vacuum forming is used to make a lot of rather deep parts out of plastic. If you keep your plies thin enough, you should be able to get some pretty gnarly patterns.

On thing you could do is develop a form that you use to steam-bend the plies and then don't glue them until they dry. If you put steamy, wet wood in the vacuum press on a form and leave it there for quite a while (like 24 hours), the vacuum will cause the water to boil off and the wood will be dry and formed. Then you can glue it and re-press, and you won't have to worry about gluing to wet wood or having as many issues with tight bends as you would with dry wood.


The plys of veneer that we're looking at will mostly be 1/18" or 1/16" Maple. So I think they should be thin enough to fool around with. I think we may go ahead and get both a large vacuum and a press. I'll investigate the hydraulic press you mentioned because you really can't argue with $129. Thanks a lot! :)

[John Coloccia]

Thanks for the welcome! :)

I think that the vacuum bags won't work because I'm looking to make boards with fairly substantial drops in the decks, and many with kicktails. I'm also trying to create 'W' shaped and 'U' shaped cambers into the decks as well. I don't know how one would form the boards into these shapes with a vacuum bag, since all of the ones that I saw only pulled the veneers into perfectly flattened shapes.

You create a form, lay the thin veneers on top of the form, put the whole thing in a vacuum bag, and turn on the vacuum. The bag will press the veneers down tightly around the form. I think it would work fine for your application.

What Mike meant about "stretching" the wood doesn't have to do with the wood being big enough. Some of the complex curves you're talking about require that the wood bend in such a way that there are significant stretching and compressive loads on the wood. The wood doesn't want to stretch and compress. It wants to buckle and bend. That's not to say it won't work but it's just something to be aware of.

[John Coloccia]

Here, check out the very end of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEFa9TwX0AY&feature=related

Now, if you're doing composites, vacuum bagging (or using a vacuum "press" as it's called) is a slam dunk.

[Frank Drew]

I think that the vacuum bags won't work because I'm looking to make boards with fairly substantial drops in the decks, and many with kicktails. I'm also trying to create 'W' shaped and 'U' shaped cambers into the decks as well. I don't know how one would form the boards into these shapes with a vacuum bag, since all of the ones that I saw only pulled the veneers into perfectly flattened shapes.

Ian, vacuum bag presses can do curved work easily, but with any method you'll have to make a form that the veneers will curve/bend over. Clamps, or a vacuum bag, or a sandbag just supply the pressure to bring your glued veneers into intimate contact, but the form has to be there first.

One part forms work fine with a vacuum bag, two part form (male and female) are perhaps best with clamps.

[Ian Flynn]

Here, check out the very end of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEFa9TwX0AY&feature=related

Now, if you're doing composites, vacuum bagging (or using a vacuum "press" as it's called) is a slam dunk.

This idea and video are genius! I never would've thought of that haha. Thanks a million. You guys are all great! We're going to have so many things to try out once we get a workshop set up. :D

[Ian Flynn]

Ian, vacuum bag presses can do curved work easily, but with any method you'll have to make a form that the veneers will curve/bend over. Clamps, or a vacuum bag, or a sandbag just supply the pressure to bring your glued veneers into intimate contact, but the form has to be there first.

One part forms work fine with a vacuum bag, two part form (male and female) are perhaps best with clamps.


I'm definitely going to try both methods for sure, and since it will be me and four other guys doing the building, I'm sure we can give all of the methods you and the others here have given me a few tries. I know for sure though, that at least one if not all of these methods will work, and if this company picks up like I want it to you all in this thread are solely responsible and I thank you! :D

[Scott Hildenbrand]

You might find these reads interesting.

http://skateandannoy.com/2007/09/your-skateboard-press-sucks/
http://diyskate.com/make_a_skateboard.html
http://www.techlink.org.nz/Case-studies/Classroom-practice/Materials/CP908-Skateboard-Heaven/delivery.htm
http://www.skateparkoftampa.com/skateboard/article.aspx?id=785&Month=2&Day=20&Year=2009
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/07/use_a_vacuum_cleaner_to_b.html
http://www.diyskate.com/mold_01.html <-- hmm.. Concrete mold. Wee!

Pictures of a true "press", though for snowboards.
http://www.snowboardmaterials.com/pages/used_skate.htm

A press would be easy to make out of bolted together 4x4s, much like building a DIY apple cider press, actually.