Aluminum vs cast iron bandsaw wheels

[Trent Shirley]

I tried ordering a G0513X2 band-saw from Grizzly and it is back-ordered until the end of December so I am considering stepping down to the G0555P
The only differences I see is the size of the table and the cast iron wheels and trunnion.

How big a difference is there between the aluminum and cast iron for a home hobbyist?

What are your opinions on the 17" x 17" table over 23 5/8" x 17 1/4"?

I am trying to decide if I step down or wait until the beginning of the year for them to ship.

The one other alternative is stepping up to the G0513X2B which has the motor brake. With no experience I have a hard time judging the value this would provide me for the extra $150. on the price.

Thoughts?
Trent

[Tim Reagan]

Did u mean 0513P? That would be the next step down. The 2 main diffeneces discussed here have been iron trunnions and resaw fence and the biggest benefit of the x2. Happy owner of a 0513p.

[Neil Brooks]

Found on the 'Net. Makes sense to me....


The advantage of cast iron over aluminum is mass. If you're going to be doing a lot of resawing, the added flywheel-effect caused by the heavier wheels to help maintain a stronger blade speed to power through thick stock.

[Dan Hintz]

The flywheel effect would only hold for as long as the excess energy is shed into the wood being cut... in other words, it would only matter as you press in, then release, giving the motor a chance to spin the flywheel back up to speed.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I don't think the aluminum wheels are that big a deal, but the trunnions probably are. I think they might be upgradeable, you might ask Grizz if they will cut you a deal on the cast trunnions.

[John Coloccia]

Personally, I'd wait for the bandsaw you like and in the meantime, keep an eye out for a good deal on a used saw. I like the cast wheels. Very smooth. It doesn't really have anything to do with the power you can deliver. Ultimately, you can only deliver what the motor can continually deliver. The added mass acts to dampen any speed variations as you resaw. Ultimately that should contribute to a smoother cut when resawing. I doubt it matters for anything else. Maybe it doesn't even matter for resawing.

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

x2 on a happy owner of the 513P!

You'll find alot of discussion on here regarding the differences between the CI and Aluminum wheels, but I don't do much resawing so that wasn't a deal breaker for me. I did, however upgrade to the resaw fence for $89 bucks though - much better than the standard fence. Also, Grizz does offer the upgraded trunnion (CI) if you want it. From what I've read, the biggest reason for the CI trunnion is for better stability for much heavier stock. The 513P is awesome in my opinion and for what I will mostly use it for - PLENTY of power too! I tested it by resawing a piece of walnut with NO issues or lack of power.:)

[Stephen Cherry]

Personally, I'd wait for the bandsaw you like and in the meantime, keep an eye out for a good deal on a used saw.

I would buy this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bandsaw-Bridgewood-PBS540-/190468077462?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c58c83796

I've been watching this machine and wondering why it has not been snatched. To buy one better than this new would involve much, much more money.

Notice the similarity, and several thousand dollar difference in price to a slightly smaller saw:
http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt20

[Steven Hess]

Might want to consider Rikon 10-325 14" deep with 13" resaw ability. Has cast iron wheels and heavy cast aluminum trunnion. When I called Rikon about the trunnion, they said they haven't ever had a performance issue with it. Their words "built like a tank". When I called Grizzly about ci trunnion over aluminum the best they could come up with was the cast iron trunnion would handle you dropping your "logs" down on it better than aluminum. So, just don't drop your logs and you'll be ok!
Rikon was my first choice, but Grizzly G0555X went on sale so bought it for $200 savings. When they delivered it, the pallet broke as soon as it cleared the trailer dumping the bs on its head. After several days of pointing fingers, screaming, and yelling they gave me my money back, but refused to sell me another one! I was banned. No more soup for me!. Then karma stepped in and put the Rikon on sale. $699.00 till November 24th at Woodcraft. So, in the end it cost me $20 more for the Rikon and I am more than happy I got it. Matches my Lathe nicely. And Rikon Tech Support is top notch.

[Van Huskey]

As I have said before I seriously doubt you could have someone use two identical saws save cast iron vs aluminum wheels and expect them to tell you which was which IF they didn't watch them wind up or down especially when you are talking about the relatively light cast iron wheels on the 513 series. The stored energy just isn't that great compared to the motor, to illustrate start cutting wood with a light weight bandsaw (such as the 513X2) cut the power and continue feeding, you will see how little actual cutting power is stored. Funny enough many of the big production saws use aluminum or steel wheels, rarely CI, with enough HP momentum is an insignificant issue.

The key here is the 513x2 has lots of value added stuff for the money:

Bigger table
Better fence
Better guides not that Euro guides are bad the X2's are just a better quality and just happen to be a different design
Stronger trunions
along with the CI wheels

I wouldn't wait or pay extra money for the wheels but I would for the other stuff.

[Brian Vaughn]

But for the same price as the 513X2, you can get a Rikon 18", which will get you another 1/4 on the blade (1.25" vs. 1"), another 1/2 HP, and the table is slightly more square, but effectively the same size.

I've been going through this same agonization myself, but I finally made a spreadsheet with all the basic factors; Table size, Power, Blade Width, Materials, and price, and that made my decision very clear. In the end, for me, I came to the decision that the 10-325 is the best choice. I can get it from the local Woodcraft for $764, and for that price, I don't have to immediately upgrade the fence like I would with the same size Grizzly. Plus, I get ball bearing blade guides, a cast trunion, and plenty of power for everything I see myself doing for the next 20 years. I tend to be an all-around hobbyist. If I find that I'm really getting into slicing hard woods into thin pieces, then I may look at upgrading. But for my current and projected future needs, it should fit everything I need to do.

Make the spreadsheet with what's important. I know all of us woodworkers want the best (Read: more power!) you can get for the cheapest, but make sure you focus on what you'll actually use it for, not the magical things some expert with a $5,000 camera tells you you can do with it.

[ian maybury]

It may be that cast iron wheels do add to saw performance.

(1) It's hard to see why the makers of higher end band saws and re saws would bother with cast iron if it didn't add something.

(2) My own experience suggests it may be worth something in a well developed saw.

On the latter I spent quite a lot of time in recent months trying to get a Scheppach 5 series with aluminium wheels to re-saw properly with a very good UK sourced 1/2 in X 3tpi (and a variety of other blades), but couldn't stop it developing what seemed to be a longtitudinal resonance (i.e. in the direction of blade travel) long before it got anywhere near to using the available power.

A screeching sound developed beyond a certain depth of cut which was possibly suggestive of some sort of resonance starting. Beyond this the finish dis-improved, the blade started to drift unpredictably, and it just sounded all wrong.

While invisible the vibration was very strong, and could be felt as a very strong 'buzz' by placing a strip of wood against the side of the moving blade. It wouldn't come out with increased blade tension, but the saw's ability to apply this was limited by a relatively light frame and a weak tension spring.

In the end it seemed like maybe the system made up of entire band and both wheels was oscillating in unison about the wheel spindles. If true one result would be that the speed at which the teeth cut through the wood would very rapidly increase and decrease (sorry, it's hard to explain!), with the teeth momentarily losing their grip/bite into the wood once in every cycle.

Even if this mode of vibration/cycling was not of itself a problem, it would rapidly load/unload the blade, the frame and the other load bearing parts of the saw - which could induce secondary vibrations of one sort or another.

One effect of cast wheels might well be to by their much greater mass tune out resonances like this, and maybe other modes of vibration too. Plus the wheels would be much less likely to deflect under heavy blade tension.

Even if this is true it doesn't follow that CI wheels will be of universal benefit, but I have to think that as in the case of most forms of woodworking equipment the tuning out of unwanted modes of vibration in all foreseeable operating conditions has to be a major focus during development - at least in better saws anyway.....

ian

[george wilson]

Even Crescent used aluminum wheels on al least SOME of their models. I know,because I took a 24" Crescent bandsaw wheel that had been broken and welded,and put it into my metal lathe and turned it true for a guy.

I'd think a cast iron wheel saw would take a lot longer to come to a stop,which could be bothersome if you need to change a blade.

Too bad Grizzly would ban a person because of a botched delivery. That isn't at all fair. Is there more to the story?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

There will be no more discussion on this particular Grizzly problem. We are only getting one side of the story here and every story has two sides.

It is not germane to the subject being discussed.

[Bill Huber]

So if someone really wanted to test the difference in the 2, just add weight to the aluminum wheels.
The weights would have to be spaced out so the wheel would still be in balance but this would tell if the weight made much difference. Get some lead sheets and cut them in strips and wrap some around each spoke of an aluminum wheel.

[Trent Shirley]

I looked into possibly upgrading to the G0513X2B but those are back-ordered as well. The Rikon 18" looks good but the specs are a bit slim and it runs a little more expensive than the G0513X2 even picking it up locally and not paying shipping as then I have 6.25% tax and the Grizzly has a 5% discount.

I may just end up waiting for the Grizzly to come into stock and maybe upgrade to the model with the motor brake.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

[Steven Hsieh]

If re-saw is the only thing your doing, It would be a beneficial.

Disadvantages is the saw will take longer to stop after switched off and then the extra weight.

[Chris Fournier]

I would strongly suggest that you wait for the CI machine. I wouldn't go near aluminum trunions at any price. CI wheels are all gain, no pain. Can't wait for the machine to slow down? Turn it off and cut up some scrap offcuts.

Upgrading machinery is expensive. 6 weeks for the CI machine is no biggie and you can rest assured that you have the bandsaw you really wanted.

One of my reasons for upgrading my bandsaw in the past was that I wanted the benefits of cast iron wheels over the aluminum wheels of my then Delta 14"er. Perhaps re-sawing isn't important to you now but it could well be in the future.

[Trent Shirley]

I have decided to not only wait but to upgrade to the machine with the motor brake. The LOML has encouraged me to upgrade for the added safety of having the motor brake.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I hope you don't take that woman for granted!!!! ;)

[Thomas Delpizzo]

My $.02 on the cast iron:
I have the G0555x and am very happy with it. I may have purchased the Rikon if it were on sale at the time. However, in my limited experience, the cast iron does seem to be smoother. More importantly, the cast iron won't flex of misshape over time due to over tensioning. Some deltas have had that problem as have saws with aluminum wheels that do do have enough spokes in their design.