Adjusting Older Delta Jointer Infeed Table

[Mark R Webster]

I was having some problems with my 1972ish vintage Rockwell/Delta Long Bed 8 inch jointer. I was considering trying to adjust the infeed table. There doesn't seem to be any play. If the table is not "planer"/parallel to the outfeed table what adjustment options do I have?
Thanks
Mark

[Chip Lindley]

Thin shims will have to be applied between the mating dovetailed ways to level things out. It is better to leave the infeed table as is, and level the outfeed to match it. The outfeed is seldom adjusted, but the infeed is constantly raised and lowered. The shims will stay put better on the outfeed, with less movement over them. Once the correct placement is determined, AND, if the dovetails are clean, a spot of "superglue" on the shims will keep them where you put them.

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks for the suggestion Chip. One of the things that is happening is that as I joint a board (light cut) the last 6 inches (of the board) don't seem to touch the board. Can this be corrected by just raising the blades a touch with respect to the out feed table instead ot being the same height?
Again thanks
Mark

[Kirk Poore]

Thanks for the suggestion Chip. One of the things that is happening is that as I joint a board (light cut) the last 6 inches (of the board) don't seem to touch the board. Can this be corrected by just raising the blades a touch with respect to the out feed table instead ot being the same height?
Again thanks
Mark

Mark:

No, not really. What you're seeing is a symptom of the two jointer tables not being parallel to each other in the lengthwise direction. That will give you a taper in your boards after you run them. You'll need a straightedge to make them parallel first, preferably with the two tables dead level with each other. Then you can move the infeed table to get the right depth of cut.

Kirk

[Mark R Webster]

Just to clarify, as I run the board through with a fine cut, the blades stop cutting the last 6-10 inches of the board.
Regarding a straight edge, should it be long enough to extend the entire length of the jointer, and should it be a "precision" straight edge. Lastly, how much gap end to end is reasonable in thousands?
I assume the only way to adjust is as Chip suggests?
Thanks again
Mark

[Sean Troy]

Thanks for the suggestion Chip. One of the things that is happening is that as I joint a board (light cut) the last 6 inches (of the board) don't seem to touch the board. Can this be corrected by just raising the blades a touch with respect to the out feed table instead ot being the same height?
Again thanks
Mark
I just had a similar problem and found the outfeed table was just the slightest high in relation to the cutters. It was so slight, I spent quite awhile on it adjusting.

[Chip Lindley]

As Yogi Berra may have said: "This is like DejaVu all over again!" Here's what I suggested to Sean is a recent thread:




...Even with a jointer perfectly aligned, a bowed board, convex in the center will do the same. The center of the board must be cut down first. This is "eyeball" work at the jointer when dealing with rough lumber that is twisted, bowed or warped. But, if you are starting with a straight board and getting taper, there is either a machine or operator problem.

Technique makes a big difference. Shifting weight to the outfeed at about the midway point of the board is normal practice. You may be shifting your weight too soon. Try keeping your weight on the infeed until about 3/4 of the board is by the cutterhead. See if you do not get more "flat" and less "V".

If technique makes no difference, your outfeed table may be sagging at the outer end. Visualize it! You feed the first half of a flat board across the cutter, and that flat portion seesaws "downhill" on the outfeed table. That lifts the trailing edge of the board off the infeed table and the cutterhead will not touch it. On a jointer with inclined ways, thin shims will have to be added to level the outfeed.

If neither of these makes a big difference, lower the outfeed table just a "thou" or two below the knives. Some experimentation is in order to find your jointer's sweet spot. Let us know what happens next.
~Chip~

Each jointer does have it's very own "sweet spot" where everything comes together and makes using it a joy. When you understand all the variables that affect the cut, each part can be checked off as the culprit until all are addressed.

At least a 36" straightedge would be useful to check if your tables line up. The more precision, the better. But, there are ways to check straightness without investing in a precision straightedge. Do a search for "straightedge" in this forum for past suggestions.

[Kirk Poore]

Just to clarify, as I run the board through with a fine cut, the blades stop cutting the last 6-10 inches of the board.
Regarding a straight edge, should it be long enough to extend the entire length of the jointer, and should it be a "precision" straight edge. Lastly, how much gap end to end is reasonable in thousands?
I assume the only way to adjust is as Chip suggests?
Thanks again
Mark

I made up a straightedge using a couple of 2x4's and deck screws using instructions on the internet--that I can't find anymore, darn it. Something about matching screws up and flipping ends and adjusting screws again. It wouldn't stay in alignment long (like more than a day), but certainly long enough.

Anyway, a "good" straightedge of 3' or more would probably be good enough--not just some beat up carpenter's square. As far as a gap on the end, make it as small as you can, then test it out. If you're still getting tapered boards, adjust it a little more. Mine was pretty bad when I started, and I didn't get it perfectly aligned, but it's pretty close and I don't get a significant taper anymore. Of course, you'll square the other edge on the table saw and flatten the other face to match on the planer, so perfection isn't required.

Kirk

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Kirk Sean and Chip
So Kirk, you didn't use a metal straight edge at all, just one of wood, am I understanding correctly?
You and Chip mentioned there was value however in a 3 ft straight edge. The jointer is an 8 inch- long bed so it is much longer than 36 inches. I assume you are suggesting that one doesn't have to check end to end. I just assumed I would have to check the entire length and bring it all to co-planer.
I did a search on straight edges and I am still confused.
Thanks
Mark
:confused:

[Rick Lizek]

Just to clarify, as I run the board through with a fine cut, the blades stop cutting the last 6-10 inches of the board.
Regarding a straight edge, should it be long enough to extend the entire length of the jointer, and should it be a "precision" straight edge. Lastly, how much gap end to end is reasonable in thousands?
I assume the only way to adjust is as Chip suggests?
Thanks again
Mark

The first thing to check is the blades in relation to ther outfeed table. Having the outfeed table will cause this taper. Check this first before even checking the tables for taper or you will create more problems.

Lower the table until you get snipe then raise it carefully until the snipe goes away. This will require several tries to get it on the money.
DULL KNIVES will also cause this sympton as the edge of the knife is dulled to being below the outfeed table.

At least a 4' straight edge is required for the next phase. Don't wast your time with the stick and screw method. A good level will suffice or better yet look at the straght edges from the flooring folks such as Crain.

If any shimming is to be done the outfeed table is the one. Buy a cheap feeler gauge to cut up for shims.

I've been adjusting machinery for years as a profession and have fixed many a jointer after over eager folks took a simple table adjustment in relation to the knives and made it worse. Cause and effect is often confused on the seemingly simple jointer,

[Mark R Webster]

Hi Rick and all
Thanks for all the info. I will try your suggestions.
In searching the forum regarding straight edges I saw one recommendation for air hardened ground flat stock. Based on the price does the below seem appropriate? I will also check out the flooring style you mentioned. Not sure I really understand the stats below but should I expect the straight edge to be accurate along the length or is it just parallel sides with precise thickness?
Sorry I know I am beating this to death.:o

From MSCDescription:Air Hardening Ground Flat Stock Width: 1-1/2 Thickness: 1/4 Length: 72 Width (Inch):1-1/2 Thickness (Inch):1/4 Length (Inch):72 Material Grade:AISI Type A2 Width Tolerance:+.000/.005 Length Tolerance:+1.00" Thickness Tolerance:+or-.001 Square Tolerance:EDGE.003 PER INCH OF THICKNESS Material:Steel $123.98

[Don Jarvie]

I just use a 48 inch level. You want to see if the tables are drooping. Forget using the level as a level, you want it to be a straight edge.

Try this, lower the infeed table so it is out of the way. Put the level on the outfeed table and adjust it so the tip of the knives just hit the level. The table should be level going from the knives to the end of the table.

If that is fine then raise the infeed table so it is level with the outfeed and the knives hit the level. Then see if the infeed table is level - knives to end.

Finally put the level in the middle above the knives and the tables should be level to each other.

If the tables are drooping on one of the ends then shim it. My crappy Releint had a wedge that goes between the table and the base so the table doesn't move side to side. I had to make sure they were seated towards the top. I was getting cupping in the middle. This solved this problem.

[Mark R Webster]

Hi Don
I guess I am just dense.
Can you clarify for me? You said...


I just use a 48 inch level. You want to see if the tables are drooping. Forget using the level as a level, you want it to be a straight edge.
Try this, lower the infeed table so it is out of the way. Put the level on the outfeed table and adjust it so the tip of the knives just hit the level. The table should be level going from the knives to the end of the table. (did you mean level or flat? You said above not to use as a level?)
If that is fine then raise the infeed table so it is level with the outfeed and the knives hit the level. Then see if the infeed table is level (did you mean flat or level?) - knives to end. .........


Thanks for your help.
Mark

[Rick Lizek]

Hi Rick and all
Thanks for all the info. I will try your suggestions.
In searching the forum regarding straight edges I saw one recommendation for air hardened ground flat stock. Based on the price does the below seem appropriate? I will also check out the flooring style you mentioned. Not sure I really understand the stats below but should I expect the straight edge to be accurate along the length or is it just parallel sides with precise thickness?
Sorry I know I am beating this to death.:o

From MSCDescription:Air Hardening Ground Flat Stock Width: 1-1/2 Thickness: 1/4 Length: 72 Width (Inch):1-1/2 Thickness (Inch):1/4 Length (Inch):72 Material Grade:AISI Type A2 Width Tolerance:+.000/.005 Length Tolerance:+1.00" Thickness Tolerance:+or-.001 Square Tolerance:EDGE.003 PER INCH OF THICKNESS Material:Steel $123.98

http://www.tools4flooring.com/crain-334s-professional-straight-edge-4-ft-p-792.html

You are over doing it.
Just use a straight piece of wood to first see if your blades are below the table. Make a mark on the side of the stick a few inches from the end and put the line at the edge of the out feed table. Rotate the cutter head by hand to see if the blades moves the stick a slight bit and make a new mark where the stick stops in relation to the outfeed table edge. Each blade should move the stick the same amount. Disconnect the power of course. As I said before dull knives will cause the taper as well as the knife edge is worn below the table. If your jointer was working fine in the past this is a common cause or when folks change the knives they think they have them at the same height and they start blaming the tables being off. Start simple. There is a logical sequence to follow.

You made no mention of when you last changed the knives!!!!!

[Mark R Webster]

Hi Rick
I won’t be near the jointer until this weekend. I plan to work on it then. I will take all the info everyone has offered this week and give it a go then, starting with checking the knives as you described. I am just getting back into woodworking after many years of not having time. I wouldn’t expect the knives to be that dull/worn but I am sure they would benefit from a sharpening and they could well be out of adjustment. I am just trying to get all my ducks in a row and my battle plan ready before I get started.
Again thanks for the help.
Mark
:)

[Gary Pennington]

I think this book will explain everything you need:
Care and Repair of Shop Machines: A Complete Guide to Setup, Troubleshooting, and Maintenance
by John White
(Apologies for the bold--copied & pasted)
It's $13.57 in paperback at Amazon or free from your local library. It goes thru all the steps you need to troubleshoot your jointer (and most other shop machines) and has instructions to make a lot of the jigs and fixtures you'll need including a long straight edge.

The table saw section saved me hours of tuneup hassle and, with a few shop made jigs, I ended up with a near dead on saw. I'm in the process of going over all my equipment using John's guidelines.

[Mark R Webster]

Hi Gary
Ordered the book this evening.
Thanks for the tip
Mark

[Don Jarvie]

Mark, the level will take place of the straight edge. With the level in the middle of jointer there should be no gaps between the infeed and outfeed tables and the level. If you see any gaps, then you would have to shim the area of the table to make them level.

On my jointer the tables were higher on the ends so my boards had a cup in the middle. It took a few boards to figure this out.

[Mark R Webster]

Got it.. thanks, I am looking forward to giving all these ideas a try this weekend.
Mark
:)

[Mark R Webster]

Hi guys, just an update, I bought one of the Crain straight edges and it worked nicely. I had to shim the outfeed table which was sagging a little. I also had to adjust the knives which were a little low. All seems to be working fairly well at this point. Also the book by White is also helpful. Thanks again.
Mark
:)